SPLIT: Acts 9:31 - Origin of the word "Catholic"

[ljubim]

This is off of an older thread:

Origin of the words Catholic Church

It is quite likely that the name “the Catholic Church” (Greek: katholikos ekklesia) developed from Acts 9:31 “the Church throughout all” (Greek: ekklesia kath olos).

This is terribly interesting!!

Does anybody have some commentary on this, or would like to discuss, etc? Or just learn something new!

We commonly think of the first official use of the word “Catholic” as 107 AD by Ignatius, but now it turns out it’s probably biblical.:heaven:

 

[ljubim]

PS I have contacted the OP too

 

[Julian0404]

My research is indicating that the first use of the word “Catholic” in reference to the church was by St. Ignatius of Antioch, when he used it as an adjective meaning “universal” while writing a letter to describe the extent to which the Christian Church was growing.

Upon Jesus death, the followers were called “Nazareans” to connect them with Jesus of Nazareth. Around 35 AD the term commonly used became “Christians” in reference to their own claim that Jesus was “The Christ”. Finally around 101-102AD, St. Ignatius wrote the now famous letter, from which the adjective “catholic” grew to become the noun “Catholic” and from that time forward, the Church that Jesus formed in Matthew Chapter 16 has been referred to as the “Catholic” Church.

I am not entirely certain when the additional “Roman” clarification was added to distinguish between the Roman and the Orthodox Greek Catholic church - both containing the true presence of Jesus as both still have apostolic succession.

What is even more interesting to ponder is why didn’t Jesus Himself provide a name or title for His Church? Even with the four (4) signs [One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic ], why didn’t He put forth a title or name ?

 

[peary1]

This is off of an older thread:

This is terribly interesting!!

Does anybody have some commentary on this, or would like to discuss, etc? Or just learn something new!

We commonly think of the first official use of the word “Catholic” as 107 AD by Ignatius, but now it turns out it’s probably biblical.:heaven:

\

See? and those fundies keep saying that the word ‘Catholic’ isn’t in the Bible. Gotcha!

 

[peary1]

I am not entirely certain when the additional “Roman” clarification was added to distinguish between the Roman and the Orthodox Greek Catholic church - both containing the true presence of Jesus as both still have apostolic succession.

The protestants added it.

What is even more interesting to ponder is why didn’t Jesus Himself provide a name or title for His Church? Even with the four (4) signs [One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic ], why didn’t He put forth a title or name ?

Because when you think of ‘church’ you do not immediately think of ‘society’. Actually, Christ is establishing a new society within a society - a sacred one based on God. Members will do the work of God which previously was the abode of God; i.e., establishing laws, forgiving sins, healing, etc.

But He did it in the context of Judaism. Jesus was also a reformer of Judaism. Everything would be transformed by the membership.

 

[Rence]

This is off of an older thread:

This is terribly interesting!!

Does anybody have some commentary on this, or would like to discuss, etc? Or just learn something new!

We commonly think of the first official use of the word “Catholic” as 107 AD by Ignatius, but now it turns out it’s probably biblical.:heaven:

Well the correlation seems obvious to me. So I guess the question is: where is the proof that it’s NOT biblical? And why can it not be of biblical origin despite Ignatius first writing about it in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans? Where is there proof that it wasn’t said by word of mouth before that? How many of Christ’s followers could read or write during the time of the very early Church? And since they spent a majority of that time hiding and running, why would they? Peter said there was more to the Church than what was written in the Bible due to the sheer volume of content.

What is the exact Greek of Acts 9:31? Are the words as described in the quote really there? and if they’re there, why isn’t it true then?

So I guess…can someone prove that deduction incorrect? What do the Apologists have to say?

BTW, the Acts of the Apostles is dated to the second half of the first century. The Catholic Encyclopedia dates it to 62AD. So my question is: couldn’t Ignatius have read it in Acts?

 

[ljubim]

Acts 9:31 ( my source )

31Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησία καθ’ ὅλης τῆς Ἰουδαίας καὶ Γαλιλαίας καὶ Σαμαρίας εἶχεν εἰρήνην, οἰκοδομουμένη καὶ πορευομένη τῷ φόβῳ τοῦ κυρίου, καὶ τῇ παρακλήσει τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος ἐπληθύνετο.

I know the Russian alphabet and bits of Greek, and this definitely says Eklesia Kath Olos!!

:egyptian::whackadoo::extrahappy:

I’m really really excited now!!! Perhaps we should ask an apologist before we go any further… I’ll post a question now!!

 

[Rence]

Yep, Peary I agree with you

 

[Ignatius]

This is off of an older thread:

This is terribly interesting!!

Does anybody have some commentary on this, or would like to discuss, etc? Or just learn something new!

We commonly think of the first official use of the word “Catholic” as 107 AD by Ignatius, but now it turns out it’s probably biblical.:heaven:

Checking the Greek New Testament it appears that ekklesia kath olos does indeed appear in Acts 9:31.

Check it out for yourself: scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/act9.pdf

 

[Petergee]

Well the correlation seems obvious to me. So I guess the question is: where is the proof that it’s NOT biblical? And why can it not be of biblical origin despite Ignatius first writing about it in the letter of St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans? Where is there proof that it wasn’t said by word of mouth before that? How many of Christ’s followers could read or write during the time of the very early Church? And since they spent a majority of that time hiding and running, why would they? Peter said there was more to the Church than what was written in the Bible due to the sheer volume of content.

Yes. The most we can say is that St Ignatius’ reference to “the Catholic Church” in c.107 AD is the oldest ** known still-extant written record **. Most of the ancient Christian manuscripts and letters have been lost and destroyed over the centuries through persecutions and wars. St Ignatius uses the phrase not as if introducing a new term. In the context of his letter he clearly expects that his far-away readers will instantly understand what he means by “the Catholic Church”. Historians and etymologists tell us that a word or phrase is often in common use for decades, even centuries, before the first known extant written record of it. The last of the Apostles, St John, had died in that very region just a few years before his disciple St Ignatius wrote. It is virtually certain that “the Catholic Church” was used in Apostolic times.

Also interesting to note that “Catholic” was the internal term invented by the Apostles and their followers themselves. “Christian” was invented by pagan outsiders to describe them. (Probably originally by the police force in Antioch.) For two centuries the followers of Jesus were very reluctant to use the term “Christian” (“Christiani”, which was just as frequently spelt Chrestiani") for themelves.

“Nazarenes” was used rarely if ever.

“Roman Catholic” is an insult invented by 17th century Anglicans. It is never used by the Catholic Church to describe itself (except in joint statements with Anglicans) and is unknown in non-English speaking countries.