SPLIT: Bible verses that show God is mean

  • Thread starter Thread starter SanctusEnigma40
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Twice in the previous quote we hear the people stating that they were better off as slaves in Egypt. If they knew what waited ahead, it seams many would never have left Egypt to go with this tyrant Jehovah (see 1st Kings 11:33. 2nd Kings 17:9-12, Judges 2;12 & 10:6, Exodus 32:4, Jeremiah 7:17 & 31, Jeremiah 44:15,17,23 and 25 to name just a few). In fact, in Jeremiah 44:17-18 we find jeremiahtrying to convince israelites to return to jehovah who had fled back to Egypt.(Escaping Assyrians). They tell him: “Why should we?” They say when they burned incense, baked cakes, and give drink offerings to the Queen of heaven they were happy and prosperous. And when they ceased to do so, “we have wanted all things and have been consumed bu the sword and by the famine.” do Why would they even consider going back to Jehovah? That’s like a battered wife returning to an abusive husband. What for?
While in the wilderness it became clear to the israelites that they were better off as slaves. Yet today many Jewish people revere Jehovah/Yahweh as this savior-type god who “saved” them from slavery! Ha! They became even bigger slaves to a god that treated them horribly! And they were sorry for it when it happened.

Not long after the quail episode Jehovah executed 10 dissenting Israelites in front of all the others. These 10 were part of a group who scouted the Canaanites and their holdings, since jehovah had led them. Yet they found the Canaanites to be far more numerous and powerful than anticipated, and these 10 Israelites advised the others against attacking!

Jehovah was forced to compromise and wait for the next generation to row up in the harsh dessert- tougher, hardier, and more prone to fight. Jehovah would eventually be getting abetter deal, but the current Israelites has failed his “test” and the mail dissenters were executed as an example to the others.

At first Jehovah was so angry he threatened to kil the entire group of Israelites- EVERY FREAKING ONE OF THEM!!! Moses talked him out of it, saying: “The canaanites will hear about it and think that you are a wimp and chickened out” (not those exact words, but something to the effect he just gave up after seeing the deck stacked against him!)

Jehovah, not wanting to look like a fool, killed only a few people instead!

Besides Patrick457, there would be plenty more chances to kill lots of israelites later- all Jehovah needed was a half-assed excuse or two. In fact, here’s good example that soon followed:

A couple of guys from the Reubenite faction, Dathan and Abriam, had assembled 250 highly esteemed israelites to oppose Aaron and Moses. BIG MISTAKE! Some guy named Korah was also a ringleader. Korah along with the 250 followers, were called to appear before Jehovah for a “hearing”. This was however, more of a sentencing than a hearing!

Jehovah declared, once again, that he would destroy the entire community of israelites except for Moses. Apparently Jehovah loved to hear people beg for their lives. Moses and Aaron fell on their faces and begged Jehovah not to kill everyone because of something instigated by a few. Jehovah apparently like to use Mafia Tactics: “If you dare go against me, I will kill your Wife, your brothers, your sisters, your parents, your friends, In-Laws, etc… Tim I think is safe to think of Jehovah as our “God-Father in Heaven”.

So, anyway, Jehovah then told Moses and Aaron to address the community and tell them to “withdraw from the abodes of Korah, Dathan, and Abriam.”

So Moses told the community,
“Move away from the tents of these wicked men and touch nothing thatbelongs to them, least you be wiped out for all their sins” So they withdrew from the abodes of Korah, Dathan and Abriam. Now Dathan and Abriam had come out and they stood at the entrance of their tents, with their wives their CHILDREN, and their “LITTLE ONES”. And Moses said: “By this you shall know that it was the Lord who sent me to do all this things; that they are not my devising: If this men die as all men do, if their lot be the common fate of all mankind, it was not the Lord who sent me. But if the Lord brings about something unheard off, so that the ground opens its mouth wide and swallows them, and they go down alive to Sheol, you shall know that these men have spurned the Lord!”
Scarcely had he finished speaking all these words when the ground under them burst asunder, and the earth opened its mouth and swalloed them up with their households; all Korah’s people and all their possesions. They went down alive into Sheol, with all that belonged to the; the earth closed over them and they vanished from the midst of the congregation. All Israel fled at their shrieks, for they said: The earth might swallow us!

And fire went forth from the Lord and consumed the two hundred and fifty men offering the incense!
Numbers 16:26-35, Jewish Torah
 
Now Patrick, those 250, who were toasted, were sympathetic followers of the ring-leading families- the 250 “highly esteemed israelites.” In other words, all the intelligent ones who who had figure out what was really going on had to b eliminated (before the word got out). Thys type of execution- roasting people alive- was fast becoming Jehovah’s favorite. It was real quick and, much like the earth-swallowing trick, required virtually no clean-up.

He also loved the smell. The bible states that the burning of flesh and blood created a sweet aroma to the Lord!

The Next day the remaining people were up in Arms over the deaths of innocent people (mainly children) from the families of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram, They had had enough, so approached Aaron and Moses eith strong ideas of Violence - that’s right, bodily harm! BIG MISTAKE ONCE AGAIN!!! Moses and Aaron had to run for it, so made a mad dash into the Tent of meeting- that’s right, Jehovah’s Tent.

All the commotion caused Jehovah to descend once again and discover this unruly mob invading his tent- probably to his great delight! Here is an excellent excuse to kill people! Not being one to ignore a perfect opportunity, jehovah reached into his bag of tricks and zapped his “Chosen People” with a plague. Once again, something different, since you can get pretty bored murdering people in the same old fashion way every time!

This time 14,700 people were murdered. And if you do not believe this “All-Loving” God could do such a thing read it for yourself in Numbers 17:11-14.
 
40.png
juliamajor:
I wonder at people who get angry at something that could be hyberbole and which archaeologists have great doubts about-especially the Joshua stories.
Click to expand...
Ok!, You are saying now that all the verses that I posted here, plus the ones I haven’t posted could be just Hyperbole. So in your view, the Old Testament is a big freaking collection of Hyperboles! How about the ones that seam to describe God as:
  1. All Knowing
  2. All Powerful
  3. All Loving
Are those Hyperboles too??? Ooopps…, I guess not because those are good things that describe God.
SO lets see… When they describe God in a bad way, they are hyperbole, but when they describe God in a Good way they are Accurate!

Thank you juliamajor. Now I know how conveniently you like to interpret your Bible!
 
This thread is borderline (at best) and in danger of being removed from the public forums if the charity level does not improve immediately.
Code: 
                      **Regarding the Use and Abuse of Sarcasm**
The difficulty with sarcasm is that participants often do not know how seriously to take what you are saying. What seems “obvious” to you to be a mild tweak can send other participants into high offense, causing them to report the post to the moderation staff for action.

Moderators try hard to only step in when sarcasm crosses the line into uncharitableness, but sometimes mild tweaks are not obvious to us either and you may get a conduct warning for what seems to be small potatoes to you.

Suggestions:
  • Use emoticons when possible to convey your intent. A smiley-face or a wink can demonstrate that you are not intending malice.
  • End the post on a positive note, devoid of sarcasm. A pleasant ending can act like sugar helping the medicine go down.
  • Think of sarcasm like salt. Just as you wouldn’t dump a shakerful on your food, don’t dump a load of sarcasm into a post. Use it sparingly.
  • If you receive a conduct warning, accept it graciously and consider it a reminder that you accidentally shook too much salt over the food. Resolve to find ways to make your points without sarcasm for a while.
  • If you have any questions about a particular moderation action, ask the moderator politely for an explanation. Don’t make the disagreement public because public disagreements with moderator actions dissatisfy other participants who didn’t know there was a problem. Those dissatisfied participants then come to the moderators requesting explanations, increasing the moderation staff’s workload, which in turn creates testy moderators.
This link also contains the Forum Rules and other guidelines and it would be wise to review it before further discussion.

You are not required to agree, but you are all required to disagree with charity and respect for each other and their views.
Sincerely,
 
SanctusEnigma40 said:
Ok!, You are saying now that all the verses that I posted here, plus the ones I haven’t posted could be just Hyperbole. So in your view, the Old Testament is a big freaking collection of Hyperboles! How about the ones that seam to describe God as:
  1. All Knowing
  2. All Powerful
  3. All Loving
Are those Hyperboles too??? Ooopps…, I guess not because those are good things that describe God.
SO lets see… When they describe God in a bad way, they are hyperbole, but when they describe God in a Good way they are Accurate!

Th
ank you juliamajor. Now I know how conveniently you like to interpret your Bible!
Click to expand...
At least I interpret it in the cultural context of time and place.You’re getting blue-faced and nasty over something which the majority of archaeologists believed did not happen or was greatly exaggerated.As i stated before whole nations couldn’t have possibly been laid waste because those people continued to influence the religious practices of Israelites and harass Judah and Israel at different times. Something apparently that you are set to not understand.did deaths and violence & war occur? of course.The physical evidence is just not their on wholesale destruction and mass extermination.Unlike the finding of Phoenician temples where the bodies of children were “passed through the fire” they have found mounds of tiny bones.
War and victory inscriptions were highly exaggerated and edited to make ‘your’ side the winner at all times. the Moabite stone–states that Moab completly destroyed Israel and it was about a century before the Assyrians and a few centuries before the Babylonians invaded…so it’s obvious it wasn’t destroyed. But if you want to believe that-go ahead- maybe Isreal was really was destroyed ! Or take the Inscriptions in Karnak about the “great victory” that the Egyptians had at the battle of Kadesh.It was a draw at best. But you never admit that in the ancient mid east.
For your enlightenment I suggest you get"the Ancient Near East-an anthology of texts and pictures" by James Pritchard and a Biblical archaeology Magazine. It might help you interpret better- instead of going around ****ed off over event that happened several thousand years ago. Get angry about the slaughter and injustice that happen NOW- something that you can actually do something about and not dwell on something that cannot be changed.
Happy interpretation!🙂
 
Dear julimajor,
What really bothers and upset me is the double standard and the pick and choosing. You do not get to say that the Evil actions of God in the Old Testament are just Hyperbole, and the Good, Merciful, and Awesome descriptions of the same guy are absolutely Accurate and true. You have to use the same standard for everything.

I cannot be upset really at God of the bible since I really do not believe that is the Word of God. I do not believe for a second that most of it really happened. In this we agree.

But the whole point is this: Many Christians (I know I was guilty of this back when I was one too) adhere to a strict literal interpretation of it.

Now this is the problem: Even if I was to accept that all this verses that portray God doing evil things are to be interpreted allegorically or symbolically, we are still stuck with the interpretation of what they mean.

For example: I read in the old testament God Smiting his own chosen peiople when they get out of line:

Ask for Water in the wilderness: Smite
Ask for Meat in the wilderness: Smite
Murmur and gossip in the Camp on the wilderness: Smite
Wrong offering of inciense: Burn and Smite
Question Moses and Aron Leadership: Smite
Etc., etc., etc.

So if you adhere to believe that this is just to be interpreted allegorically: What is the possible interpretation of this?

That God upthere is very shortfused!!, That we should never attempt to aproach Him because He might get upset and kill us!

And again, on what basis you are so sure that this should be interpreted otherwise? How do you know as a fact that the original writers of this stories meant them to be taken literally??

Maybe they were meant to be read literally because the the authors were for the most parts (in the OT) Nomadic Herder Warrior tribes and they really value that kind of God: a Raw Power God who Smite left and right and like things his way or else! like a human king or a ruler!

That to me makes more sense. Now what disturbs me is when a person takes this very scriptures to pontificate and condemn against abortion, quoting the very same scriptures that portray God doing worst things like this!

If you want to be against abortion for moral reasons, I am OK with. But do not quote me the bible to do this, because I will have very serious problems with it.
The same can be said in many other areas.
 
You’ve got to understand the history and the culture of the time.How people view God is culturally driven, the language we use to explain God is also cuturally driven.Yahwehism was unique in that particular time and place.So adherents color their description of God by what was culturally and historical acceptable.Scripture may be inspired- but it is not dictated.Human vehicles(warts and all)were chosen to pass God’s word on-thru the prism of their own experiences, culture and history etc-in other words things that make us human.Trying to express who and What God is in human words is insufficient.What we know or undertand or feel about God we perceive through a glass darkly.
How God appears and more importantly how people of the past saw him evolves over time just as the idea of resurrection or an afterlife(sheol was not a happy place) evolves over time.
I was an ancient history major in college(Egypt and Rome a specialty).Biggest mistake 21st Century folks make is trying to put our mores ,that reflect ourselves and our times and apply them toBC.You can’t judge the past with modern eyes.Just think of our civilization now and how those a hundred or a thousand years in the future might think of us? And your talking about a good 4000 yr difference?WE are only about a hundred or so years beyond the Victorian period- yet their attitudes toward sex, what is civilization,value of people is so radical and different than ours that they are like aliens to us.Again time and history,culture, and beliefs make a vast distance and can create misunderstandings about the past and the now.After saying that , their is so much in the Bible that is truly human and mirrors all the negatives and postives that flesh is heir to.
To understand the OT is to understand covenant.
Take a contract, sanctify it add imprecations and curses that Will occur if the covenant is not obeyed.A covenant is like a really well fashioned contract,it was unbreakable.Whoever broke it truly and utterly believed that not only they would be punished but they deserved to be punished.
Check the covenant between Abraham and God, commonly called the Covenant between the pieces(Gen.15:1-15)The ceremony described uses contemporary legal forms and procedures.For the first time in history of religions God is the contracting party.In otherwords God has to fulfill the covenant.The Split pieces of sacrifice are symbolic of the fate that will befall one who violates the contract.YHWH is the one who walks through the pieces -so the onus for fulfilling that covenant falls on God-and He must fulfill it . their is so much more and I could go on and on.
Another thing- don’t blame God for the hypocrisy of His creations.Some religious people use scripture to bully and feel superior to others instead of keeping themselves in line they look at everyone else and notice their evil but put no mind to the sins they have on their souls…They’ are the biggest cause of disbelief in this country.How can you trust a hypocrite(actor) to tell and lead you to the truth.
Peace and Joy in His Name-julie
 
I am sorry, but I still do not get one thing. If i understand you correctly, you are saying that you believe that the scripture is inspired by God (Feel free to correct me if I am misinterpreting you!)

Now, all we are left is with this ancient scriptures that tell us about awful things done by God (like killing or commanding to kill infants and babies), and somehow this stories are OK because even though they are contaminated with the prejudices, ancient barbaric culture values (warts and all as you say), is OK, because somehow, God is not really doing what it says in the Text that He is doing!

And how in the world are we, the common man, suppose to know how to interpret correctly all this awful stuff!

Again, How in the world!. I am not trying to give you a hard time! I want an answer that makes sense.

Somehow I do not see what you are seeing, but I want to. So please be patient with me and help me to understand what you understand. I promise I am not trying to be sarcastic. I will like to see things like you see them, but somehow i am missing something.

I am not able to buy the argument that all the awful stuff described in the OT, all this violence, carnage, mayhem, Acts of unspeakable cruelty, vindictiveness, and ruthlessness are somehow OK!

I probably will still be in church if it was not for the Bible.

I do not have a problem with a person believing in a God or a religion, purely on a faith basis. My problem is when we add the bible to the equation and this is somehow Gods revelation and is OK, Holy, Commendable, and Pure.

Whole Catholic Church doctrines (Most of them) have some basis on this book! This is supposedly a holy collection of sacred stuff inspired by the creator of the universe itself, and it contains despicable acts of cruelty by God Himself that if only 5 % of it was comitted by a lowly human being He will be regarded as the most Vile, Repugnant, Ruthless and Evil human being in the World! Hitler will not even come close!

And Somehow we are supposed to read this and say, Its good, holy and wholesome for the whole family! We should follow that examples of God in this Book!

Am I missing something??

What it is that you see that I am missing???
 
Let me tell you about the modern age and thesneering at the"barbaric" ancients and their muderous habits- the 20th century was the probably the bloodiest most barbaric century in the whole world.We like to pretend we are better that our modern thought and ideals are better that we are more sophisticated & more tolerant- total and absolute bunk.Between World Wars, purges ,ethnic cleansings the estimated death toll for the 20th C is enormous.Over forty million dead by hitler and his Reich, about 100 million in Stalins workers paradise 3-4 million by Pol Pot, untold amounts in China- all by secular societies that proclaimed their love of the"people. Our success is in the role of saying noble things and encouraging ignoble behavior.
The big difference between the ancient Mid east and us -is we made murder and death into an art form and machine like efficiency.We are basically hypocites who like to point to other people and other times and pretend that we are better. With all our so called wisdom and knowledge, our touting of the rights of man the thing we do better then them is justify our killings.
The "herem’ might be a barbaric practice but shoving people into ovens by the millions and mudering people by inches in the gulags by the hundreds of millions puts those barbaric ancients to shame. Modern man is the master of murder, torture and mayhem and of mass murder.
 
That is OK Julia,
I understand what you are saying. Modern Barbarism puts to shame Old testament Barbarism to shame. I get it.

But I seriously wonder if you understand my point: When we are talking about barbarism in the Old testament, any cruel act of humans pale in comparison to the Barbaric acts attributed to the God of Abraham.

I am sorry, but i will have to say even more. God’s acts of Barbarisms as described in the Old Testament make also Modern Barbarism pale in comparison. Last time I checked, Hitler, Polpot, and Stalin never decided to Drown the whole earth population With the exception of a chosen family, and a sample of animals.

SO I will say God is still on Top of the list when it comes to acts of Barbarism.

Now what really upsets me is that this is all described in a Book that is suppose to be His own holy revelation and gift to mankind. A book inspired by Himself. And more outrageous than that, Christians use this book to guide them spiritually.

Also I am not sure if you get the following: Barbarism, wether Modern or Ancient is very Bad!
Now, if it was just a matter of describing things that man have done, I will not say nothing. God is still Holy and man is sinful. But in this case, the one doing all the Evil things in a big way is God himself. He violates his own standards with impunity.

I am sorry but might do not makes right!

IF you are going to insist that this acts of cruelty and barbarism are just hyperbole, or are meant to be interpreted symbolically or allegorically, then i dare you to explain to me one case in which God is said to kill babies himself, or commanded people to kill babies.

I just one you to explain just one of this in a way that makes sense using whatever you want: Hyperbole, symbolism, Allegory, or anything else. I want to see if your explanation still holds water, and still makes justice to the passage in question. By all means, feel free to use context of the paragraph, historical and cultural context.

I just want to see you explaining one of this instances to my satisfaction in whatever way you feel will be the correct way of interpreting it. I want to see how your interpretation will also harmonize (somehow) with the God of Love, the God who is Love and Mercy and Long suffering.

If you can do this, I will be impress. You are free to choose whatever verse you want (any of the ones describing Jehovah killing or commanding to kill babies).

Let me know!
Sincerely,
SanctusEnigma40
 
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I sense that you feel that God has let you down in some terrible way? That someone you loved was hurt? That the religion you practiced did not “work” in a time of crisis? So you’re mad at God and mad at the people who fooled you with a false religion?
 
40.png
incense:
Forgive me if I’m wrong, but I sense that you feel that God has let you down in some terrible way? That someone you loved was hurt? That the religion you practiced did not “work” in a time of crisis? So you’re mad at God and mad at the people who fooled you with a false religion?
Click to expand...
Ok, Lets see: you got 1 out of 5 right.
  1. You feel that God has let you down in some terrible way? : Yes, Kind off. Sort of indirectly: Since i do not believe that God exist, coming down from believing that He existed for so many years feels like a big loss, kind of like a let down, so even though I do not believe He exist, You can say that I was very mad at him, so in a way, you are correct.
  2. That someone you loved was hurt? : Nope!
  3. That the religion you practiced did not “work” in a time of crisis?: Religion Never worked for me in any time of crisis. Only gave me false hope. I was use for religion not to work for me throughout all my christian devoted years.
  4. So you’re mad at God … : Not really, since i do not believe that God (as you conceive it) really exist. Maybe a God like the Deist exist, but a Personal God like the Christian God, who gets pissed at people and start killing babies, and wiping out people by the hundreds of thousands on every fit, No I do not Believe.
  5. …and mad at the people who fooled you with a false religion? : People who lead people to believe in their own brand of religion , or believe in God, are also being fooled themselves for the most parts. I do not believe there is a conspiracy of people in the high positions of all the christian churches and denominations, knowing full well that they are deceiving people, and still machinating to bring them in anyway for their money. There might be some of that, but I do not believe is the rule. If anything, most of them are being deceived themselves in believing in God. The Power of Religious believes can not be underestimated. I think religion (wether on purpose, or unknowingly) uses very well the fear of all man of death and the unknown after death. This can be very powerful.
    I know that once I fall in the trap of religion, I did most of the fooling to myself, so in a way I must be mad at myself. My parents introduced me to religion. What do you suggest, that I should be Mad at my parents?? They did not know better! They still not know better. As I said before Religion can influence a lot and can basically shape the rest of your life if you let it. It cannot be underestimated.
    Once religion got a hold of me, I will not see the truth even if it bite me in the behind. I read God killing babies, I think to myself, Ahha, is OK! It must be God justice (Although It never was clear to me how God killing babies can fulfill God Justice).
    I can read atrocities after atrocities commited by Giod in the Bible, and I still will think: It’s Alright, cause God can never do wrong! Amen!
    Until one day those scales fall out of my eyes and i started to see religion and the bible for what it really was!
    IT has been a great dissapointment ever since. I am still dealing with it.
    But to go back to your last question: NO, I do not hate people who lead me into Religion.
    It was not all bad, it is just a big let down that it only gave me falso Hope and false confort for many years, and never coul explain reality as I experienced, but in its place it gave me fary tales as a way to explain reality!
What I hate is the Hypocrisy of people promoting Peace and Morality, that quote the Bible as a Standard for morality, while they completely ignore all the atrocities committed by God in that very book! and then, they have the nerve of condeming people who do not ascribe to their own brand of morality that is based on that same book!
 
I just read this entire debate before deciding to register and reply. I am not a Christian and I am currently on a quest to discover the truth myself. I am currently in the process of reading the Bible from cover to cover and have also been feeling like God is really mean for the same reasons posted here. I found this post by actually Googling “God is mean” because I wanted to see what others thoughts were on the topic.

I was raised as a Baptist and started to question my beliefs in young adulthood. I recently started attending a church in Cary, NC called Crosspointe and I am finding a lot of the answers I have been seeking. There is a pastor there named Steve Daughtery that not only explains the historical context but also the cultural context of the teachings. When he teaches I really get it. When I read it on my own I totally miss the point so context is CRUCIAL as Julie stated. I would highly suggest you log onto their website at www.crosspointe.org and listen to a pod cast on a topic of your choosing to see if they may be able to assist you in your understanding. I would like to suggest the series on “blood” which was the first sermon I heard at that church. I think you would also get a very insightful answer from Steve Daughtery if you emailed him some of your questions. He is a great teacher. Growing up, my pastors simply took a scripture from here or there and told some flowery or hail and brimstone sermon to go along with it and that was it. No true context and they often left out what was before or after so they could really twist the meanings like “an eye for and eye”. You were supposed to believe it hook, line and sinker with no questions asked. At Crosspointe they want us to question things. They want us to have “issues” because everyone does and those that claim they do not are hypocrites. How many Christians do you know that have actually read the Bible??? Crosspointe teachs that this is a journey and you do not have to have it all figured out defore you get there!

Anyway, back to the issue at hand. God is mean. I too have been feeling like that after my readings (my husband too) and we stumbled across a term in Genesis titled Nephilim. This is a very debated topic but by some interpretations, Nephilim were fallen angels that slept with human women and had hybrid/demon children who were like giants. Google the term and read up on it. It is a very interesting topic. Wikipedia has a good posting of the many different takes on interpretation. After reading up on this word I have come to the idea that maybe the reason why God was instigating these mass extinctions of nations, women, men, children and infants was because they were not humans. Maybe he was ridding the world of these vermin that were causing such caos on earth. I have emailed my pastor to get his take on this topic. I am pretty confident he will tell me that he does not interpret this word to mean this but I would be happy to share his response with you on this board as soon as I get it.

I also now understand the term covenant after attending Crosspointe. God was the only one to walk through the blood when making the first covenant and therefore he is responsible for carrying out his contract and ours if we are unable to uphold our side ourselves. The Israelites are typical human beings. They whine and complain everytime something does not seem to go their way. You referenced the Manna when the Israelites wanted meat. The thing here is that the Manna was more than enough food and nourishment for the Israelites. They were not starving by any means. God showed the Israelites many miraculous and amazing things and after time passed they seemed to get comfortable and forget and needed to be reminded again. So God killing the Israelites is simply him upholding his covenants no matter how unforgiving it may seem to us. We are much more tolerant than people of previous times. Example, we tolerate homosexuality, abortion, premarital sex, pornography etc. Back in those days people were shunned or even killed for these immoral activities. Even as parents we are much more lenient than even my grandparents were.

I also think there were some very innapropriate responses to you. I see that you seem to be angry but that is probably simply the hurt from the loss you experienced when you lost God. We all have a desire to know there is something after this life and that there is a reason for it all. Rather than people responding sarcastically or ina rude and offensive manner they should have responded with love as Jesus would have. Jesus teaches Love not Hate and we are to love all of mankind even if we do not understand them or accept the things they do. All the venom spewed does not help you in your position of understanding. True Christians should be able to defend their positions on why they believe the things they do. You are not alone in how you feel but that does not cancel out the possiblility that God exists, not even the God of the Bible. Keep searching as I will!
 
All I have got so far is basically a double standard of morality for christians when it comes to God.

When a woman goes through abortion is : Despicable, Morally Wrong, Barbaric, Unspeakable, Plain Evil, Cold Blood Murder, and a great Loss of human Life.

When GOD Murder many Babies in the Old Testament, even children, and "the Suckling (Still lactating from their mom) suddenly is, and commands them to be put by the sword or the spear, and to not have mercy, and to spare No-One! Suddenly the whole thing is:

Holy, Pure, Acceptable, Good, Wholesome, Just, and GOOD!

It is just a shameful double standard, and the Christian is just blind to this double standard.

When Man Murders babies, is despicable, and is a mortal sin that will get you to an eternity in Hell Forever.
When God Murders babies, is Holy, Good, an OK!

The whole thing makes me want to puke.

I do not know what is worst: God being so Merciless, Bloody Ruthless and Plain Evil, or the Christian Defending Him, and calling his actions on the Old Testament : All Good and holy!

It just baffles me and makes me be very skeptical of any of them having a real honest answer about the whole thing!

How come i never hear any christian saying: All the stuff in the Old Testament that God is described doing is very Evil and despicable, Just plain Wrong!

That would be honest for a change! I will be very impress if I EVER HEARD something like this coming from a christian! Not only I will be impress, but I will be very interested in what he has to say next!

Might does not make right! What God did there is Evil! Period!

Now Julia is trying to come up with a defense that all this verses are not Real, none of the evil stuff never really ahppened, and is meant to be taken Allegorically, or symbolically, and Not Literally.

SO my challenge to her (And I am still waiting) is: Quote me any vers (in context) in wiich God is Killing Babies, and give me the Allegorical interpretation of it, and make it harmonize with their own Christian Concept of God, and still make sense of it.

My point being: Even if you give an allegorical interpretation of this verses, God comes out having a very Merciless, Ruthless and Evil Disposition towards all humans, including his own people, His chosen ones!

The whole thing is still not making any sense to me, nd I find myself unable to buy this theory!

Again:

Why is that is a Woman kills a Baby is so darn Evil, but if God Kills many babies, is so darn GOOD and Holy, and Perfect, and Acceptable!
 
40.png
diazsimone:
After reading up on this word I have come to the idea that maybe the reason why God was instigating these mass extinctions of nations, women, men, children and infants was because they were not humans.
Click to expand...
First of all: God was not instigating anything. According to the Passage in question (Noah’s Flood account in Genesis): GOd is Actually doing the Killing himself, not instigating anything. He decided to bloody freaking exterminate every living thing, including all the animals, except 1 single human Family, and 2 (or 7, depending which one of the contradictions you like to believe) of every kind of.

The whole thing is hard to believe since if the Flood was to happen of this magnitude, Most fish and creatures of the oceans and bodies of water, that depend on a balance amount of water salinity to survive, will automatically die, if such a thing as a flood was to happen. So Noah probably have the most gigantic Aquarium ever conceived in he Ark too. Actually two aquariums: One for Ocean Salted water fish, and another for Lake (unsalted) water fish! , Not to mention that the Dimensions given of the Ark will never be able to accommodate all the land animals (2 or 7 of every kind.) anyway. And also never mind that an universal flood is not supported by the evidence of the earth strata. Science is very clear that such a thing as an universal flood never happened.

But, let put aside all of this and consider the possibility that all of this happened “literally” for the sake of the argument: God is basically very upset and frustrated because the tendency of Man was “constantly towards evil”.

And this is the real reason given for Him getting so upset and loosing it. The whole Nephilin thing is not mention as a reason for GOd loosing it.

Now lets think about this for a second: God got frustrated and decided to wipe out all life on earth:
Last time I checked, only reason to get frustrated and loose it, is because things do not go according to plan. My question is: Did our “Omniscient” God was unable to foresee that thins was going to happen when he decided to create man (or even before he decided to create men)?? SO much for God’s Omniscience.

So suddenly this whole thing about man being inclined to “Sin continuously” got God by surprise, and HE got pissed, and decided to exterminate all mankind and Animals.

Now watch this: What do babies have done so evil that deserve for God to drown them to death?
I do not care if you can prove me that they were the product of illicit sex between Fallen angels and Men.
They are still innocent and not responsible for the whole thing. But Nooooo…, Never mind that! Lets just freaking kill them all!

What evil do most animals in the world have done to deserve being drowned to death?
Nothing!

The Omniscient Jehovah just got super Pissed because the whole “sin” thing got him by surprise, and He decided to kill everyone (except Noah’s family, and the 2 or 7 of every kind), and start all over.

Now, check this out: Did this massive murder of all living things on earth took care of the Sin Problem??

Did it?? Really??? God even seams to apologize for the whole incident: You know, loosing the handle, and freaking killing everyone, and decides to put an rainbow in the sky Just in case his Alzheimer’s kicks in, and he forgets again, or he forgets his Schizophrenia heavenly medication again), as a way to remind himself not to loose it anymore and freaking exterminate all living things again.

Now check this: Guess what happen after the flood: wait for it, , wait for it… Yes! That is right! Man started to sin AGAIN!!!, DAaahhhh! What did God expected! All humans from Now on are born with a tendency for evil (original sin inherited from adam and eve, remember??) so man Sining again should not have been a surprise for God. since it was bound to happen anyway.

So all this great Genocide and big Atrocity from God was for nothing since man started to do again what is natural for them to do: SIN.

So the whole point of the Universal flood mass extermination was because of the whole"man sining constantly", but are we to expect that our “omnicient” God knew that it was going to avail for nothing, since man was going to go back to what is natural for him anyway: to sin!

Well, so much for an Omniscient and Just God. What a charade!
 
SanctusEnigma40 said:
First of all: God was not instigating anything. According to the Passage in question (Noah’s Flood account in Genesis): GOd is Actually doing the Killing himself, not instigating anything. He decided to bloody freaking exterminate every living thing, including all the animals, except 1 single human Family, and 2 (or 7, depending which one of the contradictions you like to believe) of every kind of.

The whole thing is hard to believe since if the Flood was to happen of this magnitude, Most fish and creatures of the oceans and bodies of water, that depend on a balance amount of water salinity to survive, will automatically die, if such a thing as a flood was to happen. So Noah probably have the most gigantic Aquarium ever conceived in he Ark too. Actually two aquariums: One for Ocean Salted water fish, and another for Lake (unsalted) water fish! , Not to mention that the Dimensions given of the Ark will never be able to accommodate all the land animals (2 or 7 of every kind.) anyway. And also never mind that an universal flood is not supported by the evidence of the earth strata. Science is very clear that such a thing as an universal flood never happened.
Click to expand...
Of course, while the belief in a geographically-universal flood had been the majority opinion until the 17th century (though opinions believing otherwise are not unknown), the Catholic Encyclopedia (1917) notes that theological and scientific study devoted to the question have thrown so much light on it that the belief in a local, anthropo-centric flood could be defended.

Personally, I hold to the opinion that the Flood is a “local”, anthropologically-universal one, as opposed to a geographically-universal one; the flood killed all humans, yes, but it does not have to be necessarily a world-wide - in our modern-day definition - event. If we believe Genesis, mankind dwelt only in a small portion of the earth, thus the then-uninhabited areas would be unaffected. After all, the “world” as the ancients thought of it is just a fraction of the globe we know now!

And, if I could add, there is no indication that Noah had to include aquatic animals as well from the text:

“From all life, from all flesh, two from all you must bring into the ark, to keep them alive with you; male and female they shall be. Of the birds after their kind, and of the beasts after their kind, and of every creepers of the ground after its kind, two of every kind will come to you to keep them alive.”

Genesis 6:19-20

Then YHWH said to Noah, “Come into the ark, you and all your household, because I see you as godly before me in this generation. You must take with you seven seven of every kind of clean beast, the male and its female; two of every kind of unclean beast, the male and its female; also seven seven of the birds of the heavens, the male and its female; to keep alive their offspring on the face of the land.”

Genesis 7:1-3

The Hebrew for “beast” used here is behemah, which strictly refers to “cattle” but could be extended to refer to (usually domesticated) land animals in general. The Bible notes that Noah only brought the “birds” ('oph; in the ancient POV this would include all flying creatures in general, even if they are not “birds” in the modern sense), the “beasts” (land animals), and the “creepers” (remes, from the verb meaning “to creep”) of the land. Note that “fish” (dag) are conspicuously absent. This is in contrast to Genesis 1:26, where very much the same classification for living beings is used:

And Elohim said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea (bi’degat ha’yam) and the birds of the heavens (ve’of
ha’shamayim) and over the beasts (va’behemah) and over the land and over all the creepers that creep on the land (ha’remes haromes al-ha’aretz).”

Finally, you asked how fresh-water fish could survive in the salty seawater that covered the land during the Flood. Obviously, fresh-water deposits would have been contaminated with salt water as the flood waters covered “all the high hills under the heavens” (Genesis 7:19-20). One of the problems here, of course, is that we cannot speak with certainty regarding the salinity of the oceans before the Flood. Nor do we know very much about the predecessors of many present-day fresh-water fish. While the move from salt to fresh water or vice versa would indeed kill most modern-day species of fish (except for certain species who can adapt, like eels or salmon), we do not know anything conclusive as to how fish back then adapted. One should note that many fresh-water fish have relatives that once lived in saline environments. Furthermore, even today there are fish (e.g., large-mouth bass) that thrive in brackish waters such as those where the Mississippi River dumps its fresh water into the salt water of the Gulf of Mexico.

That’s it for the moment. I’ll get back on this later when I have more time and less work to do (I have a life after all).
 
40.png
patrick457:
Personally, I hold to the opinion that the Flood is a “local”, anthropologically-universal one
Click to expand...
If the flood is LOCAL then how come the “infallible word of God” says that the Ark ended on the Top of mount Ararat???

DO you know how many thousands of feet above the sea Level Mount Ararat is???

How come the “infallible” bible says that as a consequence of this “Local Flood” the Ark ended there??

The biggest question I have for you then is: If it was just a Local flood, then the only thing God needed to do was to tell Noah to leave the area with His family because he was planing to murder every living thing on the area, All Human, Babies, and Inocent animals too!

That is all God needed to do if he was in fact planing just to murder all this people and animals in this area of the world.

No need for Ark either.

God: "Hey Noah, is your friendly Neighborhood Jehovah Here!

Noah: “Ok… what is going on…God…”

God: “Not much… I am very, very upset with the people in this are, and I am planing to kill them all as an example, even inocent children, and babies, and innocent animals too.”

Noah: " …OK…Sooooo…What do you want me to do God???"

God: "Not much, Just get the heck out of there…So i can do my kiling. Hurry, Up, I cannot wait! I have some killing to do!

Noah: “OK… I will get Out! thank you God!!”

God: “…Hey…No problemo Noah, Don’t sweat it!, Anytime!!”

Noah: “God, is there anything I should do concerning the animals??”

God: " Nahh… I have it all covered. I will do my telepathy trick and have 2 or 7 of each kind (I haven’t made my mind yet) out of the area in no time. All I need you to do is basically gather all your stuff and get out! of the area"

Noah: “Ok… Cool…Thanks again God”

God: “Yeah…Don’t mention it!”

There you go patrick457, That is all God needed to do if the whole flood murder was only going to be local.

Now I will wait for you to make sense out of your theory that the Universal flood story was just local!

Let me know, and make sure you make some sense out my objections for it!

I will await your answer.
 
Let’s put it this way: if (IF, I grant you) there is such a thing as an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent Creator-God, then He is the only sensible yardstick for what is good, what is nice, what is love, etc. If you and this Being are in disagreement on matters relating to the Good, I shall go out on a limb and guess that you’re the one who’s wrong.

Saying “God is mean” is grammatically possible, but logically and metaphysically incoherent. It’s like saying “tripods have only two legs” or “deaf-mutes have perfect pitch.”
 
The biggest question I have for you then is: If it was just a Local flood, then the only thing God needed to do was to tell Noah to leave the area with His family because he was planing to murder every living thing on the area, All Human, Babies, and Inocent animals too!
Click to expand...
Did that at Sodom and Gamorah.

Don’t forget, if He’s so great, how come He murdered His own son on a cross after being horribly tortured. He could have saved us all some other way.

And if He’s so great, why did He allow all his apostles (except John) to be martyred? He could have stopped that too. And all those other Chrisitans martyred too.

And if the Fatima messages are correct, God allowed WWII to come because man would not repent. Lots of innocents died there too.

Perhaps we need to look at the meaning of death?
 
WOW! I thought I was confused about all this stuff but you really make me feel like I have a pretty good concept of things 😃

Again, I am not Christian here but I too believe the flood was not universal even though I did see a recent documentary that stated there was indeed proof that the flood was worldwide. There were no known civilizations say here in the USA at that point in history because people had not yet migrated.

Another thing I keep in mind is that if there is a God he is capable of ANYTHING. There is a lot of supernatural stuff that goes had and hand in choosing to believe there is a God and that all of this is not happenstance. I do not agree with mass killings but there is a really good chance that I do not UNDERSTAND why those killings were necessary. I am under the belief that we were not the first, last or only intelligent beings in this universe we call home and I do not have to understand everything that God does or why. I simply need to be willing to believe that it did happen and there was a really good reason for why things did and do happen. It is ok to question and be angry with your God. I think I will go to “Heaven” and find that I was wrong about A LOT of stuff during my lifetime. If he wanted us to know everything he would have made it super easy to understand or would have simply granted us the knowlege from the begining. If he had we would have all the secrets of life and what would we do with ourselves then.

What would you be doing with yourself right now if you were not angry at God and did not have this topic to debate about? What would you be doing with your time? This is apparently a very important and touchy topic for you. However, I am greatful to hear the other side of things. It gives us some healthy perspective to compare our own beliefs to! Thanks for sharing and I look forward to hearing more.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top