SPLIT: Can one be both Catholic and Protestant?

[Marc_Anthony]

That is false and something uttered by christians with bad theology. Even if the Christ established one church, the catholic church should not be mentioned because catholicism came into existence when Rome adopted christianity.
There is salvation in anyway to God, saying their isn’t shows conceitedness.

Okay then, you’re a Protestant. You’ve pretty much given a classic Protestant response when they explain why they’re not Catholic.

 

[Trebor135]

That is false and something uttered by christians with bad theology.

What if you have bad theology, too?

Even if the Christ established one church, the catholic church should not be mentioned because catholicism came into existence when Rome adopted christianity.

What evidence do you have for this claim?

There is salvation in anyway to God, saying their isn’t shows conceitedness.

If I have an ancient and fragile manuscript in front of me, and you warn me to handle it in a particular way so I can read the text, are you being conceited by telling me that a certain procedure has to be followed to protect the work from damage?

 

[C_Del86]

What if you have bad theology, too?
What evidence do you have for this claim
If I have an ancient and fragile manuscript in front of me, and you warn me to handle it in a particular way so I can read the text, are you being conceited by telling me that a certain procedure has to be followed to protect the work from damage?

This post goes out to you and the rest. It is views like this (you can’t be protestant or catholic at the same time) that shows how people forgot what Christianity is. There is a difference between Religious Growth and Spiritual Growth. Religious Growth is such as following a set of rules as requirements to be saved, or christian. While Spiritual growth is bent on relationships.

“If you don’t agree 100% with the rules of our church then you are not a Catholic/Protestant… there is no salvation out side of our church”

That is not only a showcase of how ignorant a person is of Jesus’/God/Christian teachings but narcissism. Read the gospels when Jesus spoke against certain pharisees and religious men. “The Laws says this, the laws says that” and they ended up making him deviant for not following the laws the way they did.

“According to the LAW of Moses she should be stoned to death” What did Jesus do besides rebuking them? He showed that religious laws are not a way of living in holiness nor a way to please God. What did he say to the woman who was going to be stoned?
“You are forgiven, sin no more”. You are forgiven came first before the command of change.

Christians of both sides who think there is only one right/real church warp this example into “sin no more (follow my rules), and you will be forgiven”. Jesus --God himself-- showed that christianity is all about RELATIONSHIPS not rules. The love for God and the love for others is the only importance, not practices or styles of worship.

When the religious men asked Jesus, “what are the most** important commandments** to follow” his reply was “Love God and love your neighbors as yourself”. That is it. That is the only important rule from God, there was no set of practices that had to be followed strictly, yet christians such you people here to allot of protestants think that you have to stay devoted to one church because only one has the right set of rules. That is contradictory to the things Jesus/God himself commanded. Jesus came here and taught us that the way to God – the way for spiritual growth was relationships not religious rules/practices.

What you guys are saying is “it doesn’t matter if the other side bows down to the same God, and believes in him the same way we do… if they are not following our rules, if they are not doing the exact same things in this church, they are not like us. You can’t be in both churches because not fully accepting our ways is a sin, even if that different church prays to the same god and sings the same praise songs we do.”. Don’t deny that is not the same premise that some have been saying here because you guys are arguing that i can’t be both when both churches have the type of spiritual growth in God, which is the only thing he ever talked about.

You and even Protestants of that same attitude have forgotten the words of our own Lord, that rules never mattered but the relationship with him and others that roots out of it. “There is no salvation outside of the catholic church”… statements like that are reasons why most people left church or God because of that massive narcissistic attitude.

Christianity is a religion based on relationships not rules, because that is what our God commanded. Jesus/God himself told every single religious guy off when they tried to debate with him that disobeying the Laws of the Sabbath, Moses, judaisim is an offense to God. Look at the similarities of some of the people here who think only one a specific church should be entered due to rules. There is no right list of procedures that must be strictly followed.

Again, Jesus said: “You are forgiven, sin no more” not “Do what i do or pleases me first, and you are forgiven”.

 

[C_Del86]

What evidence do you have for this claim?

If I have an ancient and fragile manuscript in front of me, and you warn me to handle it in a particular way so I can read the text, are you being conceited by telling me that a certain procedure has to be followed to protect the work from damage?

History books. You don’t need an ancient manuscript, the book of Acts is good enough but if you want outside sources then read a bunch of history books. Catholicism did not exist until Christianity was adopted by rome. So if only one church is supposed to be the right one, then both Catholicism and Protestantism should be out of the water because the Apostles worshiped like Jews did. So Messianic Judaism should be the right church due to them being identical to how christianity was during the beginning. But, there is not only one right way of practice. Christianity is about relationships not religious rules.

 

[C_Del86]

Acts - Luke, Josephus… You guys really think the Christian-Catholicism was alive during that time? It wasn’t. Trying to make me look wrong from that is academically fallacious. Oh ya, but i forgot, you guys think there is only one right church and one right/real way to go to God. So you’ll likely take this “catholicism was not in christian practice during the 1st century” you are going to take that as some anti-christian post because anything that is not with in your church, is not christian.

 

[jam070406]

This post goes out to you and the rest. It is views like this (you can’t be protestant or catholic at the same time) that shows how people forgot what Christianity is. There is a difference between Religious Growth and Spiritual Growth. Religious Growth is such as following a set of rules as requirements to be saved, or christian. While Spiritual growth is bent on relationships.

“If you don’t agree 100% with the rules of our church then you are not a Catholic/Protestant… there is no salvation out side of our church”

That is not only a showcase of how ignorant a person is of Jesus’/God/Christian teachings but narcissism. Read the gospels when Jesus spoke against certain pharisees and religious men. “The Laws says this, the laws says that” and they ended up making him deviant for not following the laws the way they did.

“According to the LAW of Moses she should be stoned to death” What did Jesus do besides rebuking them? He showed that religious laws are not a way of living in holiness nor a way to please God. What did he say to the woman who was going to be stoned?
“You are forgiven, sin no more”. You are forgiven came first before the command of change.

Christians of both sides who think there is only one right/real church warp this example into “sin no more (follow my rules), and you will be forgiven”. Jesus --God himself-- showed that christianity is all about RELATIONSHIPS not rules. The love for God and the love for others is the only importance, not practices or styles of worship.

When the religious men asked Jesus, “what are the most** important commandments** to follow” his reply was “Love God and love your neighbors as yourself”. That is it. That is the only important rule from God, there was no set of practices that had to be followed strictly, yet christians such you people here to allot of protestants think that you have to stay devoted to one church because only one has the right set of rules. That is contradictory to the things Jesus/God himself commanded. Jesus came here and taught us that the way to God – the way for spiritual growth was relationships not religious rules/practices.

What you guys are saying is “it doesn’t matter if the other side bows down to the same God, and believes in him the same way we do… if they are not following our rules, if they are not doing the exact same things in this church, they are not like us. You can’t be in both churches because not fully accepting our ways is a sin, even if that different church prays to the same god and sings the same praise songs we do.”. Don’t deny that is not the same premise that some have been saying here because you guys are arguing that i can’t be both when both churches have the type of spiritual growth in God, which is the only thing he ever talked about.

You and even Protestants of that same attitude have forgotten the words of our own Lord, that rules never mattered but the relationship with him and others that roots out of it. “There is no salvation outside of the catholic church”… statements like that are reasons why most people left church or God because of that massive narcissistic attitude.

Christianity is a religion based on relationships not rules, because that is what our God commanded. Jesus/God himself told every single religious guy off when they tried to debate with him that disobeying the Laws of the Sabbath, Moses, judaisim is an offense to God. Look at the similarities of some of the people here who think only one a specific church should be entered due to rules. There is no right list of procedures that must be strictly followed.

Again, Jesus said: “You are forgiven, sin no more” not “Do what i do or pleases me first, and you are forgiven”.

“go and sin no more”
Sounds like a rule to me. If you love me you’ll keep my commandments. Sounds like rules.
There are rules to any relationship. One caught in adultry is not gonna be able to say, look it’s not about the rules… it’s about a relationship.
Jesus founded ONE Church as the means to staying in a state of grace. Jesus’s rules, through His Church, have nothing to do with squelching your fun. They have everything to do with saving you from DEATH.
The difference between the Pharisees and the Church is that the Pharisees created their own rules to keep men in bondage to them. The Church’s rules come from GOD for your liberation from sin.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

This post goes out to you and the rest. It is views like this (you can’t be protestant or catholic at the same time) that shows how people forgot what Christianity is.

I’m sorry, but what you’re writing makes absolutely no sense at all. I don’t even know how to rebut what you’re saying because it has 0 to do with the claims we are making.

Going back to the baseball analogy: If I say you can’t be a Yankee-Red Sock, your reply is something like, “Baseball is really one big team!”

Sure, there are rules we all follow but the teams play in different ballparks, have different styles of play, have different pitchers, may be based on offense more than defense or vice versa…and, of course, have different records .

So we’re all Christian. But Protestants are not Catholics and Catholics are not Protestants. That doesn’t mean we don’t have a lot in common or share a lot of the same theology, though.

Just say you’re a Protestant who respects Catholic theology and agrees with a lot of our teachings. We won’t send the hounds out and chase you away, I promise .

 

[C_Del86]

“go and sin no more”
Sounds like a rule to me. If you love me you’ll keep my commandments. Sounds like rules.
There are rules to any relationship. One caught in adultry is not gonna be able to say, look it’s not about the rules… it’s about a relationship.

But “you are forgiven” came first, it’s not “follow my rules and you will be forgiven” ← this is a statement that people who think you can only practice one way to God in order to be saved.

Jesus founded ONE Church as the means to staying in a state of grace. Jesus’s rules, through His Church, have nothing to do with squelching your fun. They have everything to do with saving you from DEATH.

What church? And what rules did he give besides the “love God and others”?. Church laws do not save a person alone, because there is a difference between religious growth and spiritual growth. Spiritual growth is the one that matters. You can claim to believe and take part in all these practices but if you do not display the real law of God, your relationship with him and others then it is all just for suck ups.

The difference between the Pharisees and the Church is that the Pharisees created their own rules to keep men in bondage to them. The Church’s rules come from GOD for your liberation from sin.

Nope. They referred and referrenced the laws of Moses, regardless show me these church rules given by Jesus. Show me Jesus saying that certain practices and traditions need to be done and fully agreed and you can’t accept any other church regardless of who the god is. Pharisees made their own rules?

 

[C_Del86]

I’m sorry, but what you’re writing makes absolutely no sense at all. I don’t even know how to rebut what you’re saying because it has 0 to do with the claims we are making.

Going back to the baseball analogy: If I say you can’t be a Yankee-Red Sock, your reply is something like, “Baseball is really one big team!”

Sure, there are rules we all follow but the teams play in different ballparks, have different styles of play, have different pitchers, may be based on offense more than defense or vice versa…and, of course, have different records .

So we’re all Christian. But Protestants are not Catholics and Catholics are not Protestants. That doesn’t mean we don’t have a lot in common or share a lot of the same theology, though.

Just say you’re a Protestant who respects Catholic theology and agrees with a lot of our teachings. We won’t send the hounds out and chase you away, I promise .

Did you know that the argument i gave is something i heard during a message on my recent sunday Mass? Look at your retort, comparing spirituality with sports, as i said, you people have forgotten the words of christ on what are the proper laws. Christianity was build on relationships not rules. re-read my post, and look how contradictory your points of view are to Jesus’ commandments on what follows God. There is no laws, no list of rules/routines, and no right point of view. You think the HS will only bless your church, because of it being catholicism?

“My side is right, you can’t go into different sides because there are rules and ours is different” is narcissism than christian.

 

[cameron_157]

I would like to give a handshake to the TC for being brave to remind everyone on the truth. C_del is very intelligent and is taking out of the right knowledge of scripture and the real words of christ while the rest are arguing the words of men from the church. I am a strong catholic but i am married to a Baptist, we both respect each other and go to each churches here and there and from my experience, there isn’t a big difference. Both churches pray to the same God, sing the same worship songs, read the same bible verses, and are on the same goal. Sure, there are traditional things that are not in the protestant churches such as praying to saints, rosary, taking of holy communion every sunday, confession. However these rules where never in christianity originally to begin with so it’s up to the person on what brings him to God.

“go and sin no more”
Sounds like a rule to me. If you love me you’ll keep my commandments. Sounds like rules.
There are rules to any relationship. One caught in adultry is not gonna be able to say, look it’s not about the rules… it’s about a relationship.
Jesus founded ONE Church as the means to staying in a state of grace. Jesus’s rules, through His Church, have nothing to do with squelching your fun. They have everything to do with saving you from DEATH.
The difference between the Pharisees and the Church is that the Pharisees created their own rules to keep men in bondage to them. The Church’s rules come from GOD for your liberation from sin.

Read his post again, Jesus did set rules but religious rules all his rules where based on relationships. “If you LOVE ME you’ll keep my commandments”, you should have inserted what his commandments where, it was based on relationship not worship practices which is what C_del is talking about.

Jesus did not found one church because Christianity first started as Sect/Cult in Judaism, a Messianic Cult. And the first christians such as Peter, Luke, Paul, etc used their Jewish upbringing into their fellowship with God.

You are underlining his point that christians who think “follow our church rules and you will be saved” have forgotten the words of God who never gave any religious rules but only 2, love/Believe in him and love your neighbors. Where are the church rules? You guys have to start reading and studying your bibles now because thinking that salvation is from your rules is conceitedness and shows that you are not opened to anything else outside your walls. Wasn’t Jesus against that mentality?

• The “sin no more” can also be read as “go out in peace”. Jesus’ statement to the prostitute was not in the sense of religious/worship rules.

 

[Marc_Anthony]

C_Del86:
We’ve already told you the correct teaching, if you don’t accept it by now we’re not getting through to you.

Rest assured, you’re the only person here who believes they can be a “Catholic-Protestant”. Everybody else here realizes you’re just Protestant. Calling yourself something else doesn’t change that, nor does dismissal of an analogy by poisoning the well (you made the analogy sound silly by saying I was “comparing religion to sports” without actually responding to it, a logical fallacy known as poisoning the well).

 

[Marc_Anthony]

I would like to give a handshake to the TC for being brave to remind everyone on the truth. C_del is very intelligent and is taking out of the right knowledge of scripture and the real words of christ while the rest are arguing the words of men from the church. I am a strong catholic but i am married to a Baptist, we both respect each other and go to each churches here and there and from my experience, there isn’t a big difference. Both churches pray to the same God, sing the same worship songs, read the same bible verses, and are on the same goal. Sure, there are traditional things that are not in the protestant churches such as praying to saints, rosary, taking of holy communion every sunday, confession. However these rules where never in christianity originally to begin with so it’s up to the person on what brings him to God.

It’s great that you both respect each other’s religions and have found similarities. But respecting another person’s religion does not mean you’re actually a part of it. I respect a lot of Eastern Orthodox teachings and agree with them on quite a bit. I agree a lot with Lutheran teachings. But I am not a “Catholic-Lutheran” I’m Catholic.

You’re both setting up straw men and knocking them down. I’m not judging you. I’m saying that Protestants can’t be Catholic. It’s a matter of definition, not judgment

 

[jam070406]

I would like to give a handshake to the TC for being brave to remind everyone on the truth. C_del is very intelligent and is taking out of the right knowledge of scripture and the real words of christ while the rest are arguing the words of men from the church. I am a strong catholic but i am married to a Baptist, we both respect each other and go to each churches here and there and from my experience, there isn’t a big difference. Both churches pray to the same God, sing the same worship songs, read the same bible verses, and are on the same goal. Sure, there are traditional things that are not in the protestant churches such as praying to saints, rosary, taking of holy communion every sunday, confession. However these rules where never in christianity originally to begin with so it’s up to the person on what brings him to God.

Read his post again, Jesus did set rules but religious rules all his rules where based on relationships. “If you LOVE ME you’ll keep my commandments”, you should have inserted what his commandments where, it was based on relationship not worship practices which is what C_del is talking about.

Jesus did not found one church because Christianity first started as Sect/Cult in Judaism, a Messianic Cult. And the first christians such as Peter, Luke, Paul, etc used their Jewish upbringing into their fellowship with God.

You are underlining his point that christians who think “follow our church rules and you will be saved” have forgotten the words of God who never gave any religious rules but only 2, love/Believe in him and love your neighbors. Where are the church rules? You guys have to start reading and studying your bibles now because thinking that salvation is from your rules is conceitedness and shows that you are not opened to anything else outside your walls. Wasn’t Jesus against that mentality?

• The “sin no more” can also be read as “go out in peace”. Jesus’ statement to the prostitute was not in the sense of religious/worship rules.

The sacraments have been around since the beginning. A reading of the Church Fathers will show this.
The sacraments are not “rules”. Why would I be open to anything else when the fullness of the Truth is in the Catholic Church and I can receive the body and blood of Jesus?

Also why under such condescending arrogance do you assume Catholics exclude relationship at the expense of worship? Our worship is the fountain of grace that fosters virtues that help us build greater relationship. I’m actually completely insulted at your arrogant accusations. You know nothing about me, my relationship with God or fellow man.

 

[jam070406]

But “you are forgiven” came first,

Yes, followed by “and sin no more”. Which entails you DOING something. Meaning, avoiding willful sinful behavior.

it’s not “follow my rules and you will be forgiven”

It’s not? Really? so we are not called to repentance?? We can do whatever we darn well please and God doesn’t care. The Ten Commandments are not suggestions. And we are still bound by them.

← this is a statement that people who think you can only practice one way to God in order to be saved.

There is only one way to God to be saved, it’s through Jesus Christ. And He said if you love me you will keep my commandments. Be perfect as my Father in Heaven is perfect.

What church?

The one founded by Jesus personally. The One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. No other.

And what rules did he give besides the “love God and others”?.

How about the beatitudes? How about take up your cross and follow me?

Church laws do not save a person alone, because there is a difference between religious growth and spiritual growth.

Religion fosters spiritual growth. Especially the practice of the Catholic religion which is centered around the Holy sacrifice of the Mass.

Spiritual growth is the one that matters.

How does one grow spiritually? I think Jesus knew better then mere man by giving us the Church as the means to grow and be fostered spiritually.
He didn’t say, just read a Bible. (which didn’t come about till centuries later.)

You can claim to believe and take part in all these practices but if you do not display the real law of God, your relationship with him and others then it is all just for suck ups.

This is for God to judge. Not you.
As far as “sucks ups” there are plenty of Saintly people that Faithfully practiced their religion and displayed great love of God and neighbor. Many to the point of martyrs.
I would hope this would be enough proof for you, but… probably not.

Nope. They referred and referrenced the laws of Moses,
regardless show me these church rules given by Jesus. Show me Jesus saying that certain practices and traditions need to be done and fully agreed and you can’t accept any other church regardless of who the god is. Pharisees made their own rules?

I’m not even going to address this because comparing the Church to the Pharisees is not only insulting and uncharitable, but not even intellectually honest.

 

[jam070406]

I would like to give a handshake to the TC for being brave to remind everyone on the truth.

Truth is not relative.

C_del is very intelligent and is taking out of the right knowledge of scripture and the real words of christ while the rest are arguing the words of men from the church.

This is funny. Who determines if C_del is “taking out of the right knowledge of scripture and the real words of christ”? You?
Jesus sent the Apostles. Who sent C_del?
If you feel the Faith handed down from the Apostles are just words from men, then I certainly wouldn’t trust your opinion any more then I trust C_del’s interpretations.

I am a strong catholic but i am married to a Baptist, we both respect each other and go to each churches here and there and from my experience, there isn’t a big difference.

How can you call yourself a strong Catholic and then go on to say there is no big difference?? I can think of a few HUGE ones. The Priesthood, the Holy sacrifice of the Mass and the eucharist being the actual body and blood of Christ. That’s just for starters.

Both churches pray to the same God, sing the same worship songs, read the same bible verses, and are on the same goal. Sure, there are traditional things that are not in the protestant churches such as praying to saints, rosary, taking of holy communion every sunday, confession. However these rules where never in christianity originally to begin with so it’s up to the person on what brings him to God.

Meh… this shows that perhaps you knowledge of the Catholic Faith is not as strong as you may think. Again, Truth is not relative.

Read his post again, Jesus did set rules but religious rules all his rules where based on relationships. “If you LOVE ME you’ll keep my commandments”, you should have inserted what his commandments where, it was based on relationship not worship practices which is what C_del is talking about.

And based on what you said above you don’t comprehend that sacraments are not “rules”
The cherry picked verse of Jesus’s command to love God and neighbor, that you and C_del love to toss out, didn’t get into a theological discourse on HOW that is done.
Your notion is code for: as long as I love people I can commit whatever selfish sin I want and get away with it, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone, on the surface.

Jesus did not found one church because Christianity first started as Sect/Cult in Judaism, a Messianic Cult. And the first christians such as Peter, Luke, Paul, etc used their Jewish upbringing into their fellowship with God.

Jesus did not found ONE Church? Really?? Oh my… this open a pandora’s box.

You are underlining his point that christians who think “follow our church rules and you will be saved” have forgotten the words of God who never gave any religious rules but only 2, love/Believe in him and love your neighbors.

No. I pointed out the error of his thinking. We cannot cherry pick verses out of context to satisfy our own desire to do whatever we want.

Where are the church rules? You guys have to start reading and studying your bibles now because thinking that salvation is from your rules is conceitedness and shows that you are not opened to anything else outside your walls. Wasn’t Jesus against that mentality?

You keep saying “rules” “rules” but you have not cited one so called rule that you so forcefully object to. You erroneously believe that the sacraments are “rules” but you are not even open to correction when one tells you they are not.
Usually those that object rules are those that love a certain sin. Most dominantly a sexual sin, I’ve noticed.

• The “sin no more” can also be read as “go out in peace”. Jesus’ statement to the prostitute was not in the sense of religious/worship rules.

No, His statement of “go and sin no more” meant go and sin no more.

 

[Pheonix]

This post goes out to you and the rest.

Shows what, exactly?

It is views like this (you can’t be protestant or catholic at the same time) that shows how people forgot what Christianity is.

Well, it IS true. One cannot simultaneously be a Catholic and a Protestant.

First, do you believe all Catholic doctrine and dogma? If not, then you are not Catholic. The Church has defined that you cannot be a faithful member of the Catholic Church if you outright reject dogmatic teachings like the Immaculate Conception or the Assumption.

Second, when one compares Catholic and Protestant theology, he or she will find that they are in direct conflict with each other.

A) Protestants believe that we are justified and saved through our faith alone. Catholics believe that one needs both faith and works in order to be saved.

B) Protestants believe that Scripture alone is the final norm for a Christian. Catholics believe that Scripture alone is not the final norm, and that one needs Scripture, Tradition, and the Magisterium to properly interpret God’s Word.

C) Most Protestants only recognize two rituals that can be considered sacraments: Baptism and Communion. Catholics, on the other hand, recognize seven sacraments: Baptism, Communion, Penance, Confirmation, Holy Orders, Marriage, and Anointing of the Sick.

Further, most Protestants claim that Baptism and Communion are merely symbolic rituals that show you’re a believer in Christ. Catholics, however, disagree with this; the Church teaches that the Sacraments are a way to receive grace.

D) Catholics hold to the Marian dogmas. Most Protestants are opposed to such teachings.

E) Protestants generally only believe in Heaven or Hell. Catholics believe that one goes to Purgatory if he or she has imperfections that need to be cleanse.

F) Catholics pray to the saints for intercession and even pray to the dead. Most Protestants are generally opposed to such practices.

Those are just a few differences, but I think that should suffice for my point.

So pray tell: with such major theological differences between Catholicism and Protestantism, how can one simultaneously be a Catholic and a Protestant? How can one simultaneously hold to ideas that are in direct contradiction with each other?

The fact of the matter stands that one cannot simultaneously hold to ideas that are in direct contradiction with each other. You claim otherwise. So by your logic, can one simultaneously be pro-abortion and anti-abortion? Or pro-gay marriage and anti-gay marriage? Or communist and capitalist?

There is a difference between Religious Growth and Spiritual Growth.

How so? Religious growth fosters and promotes spiritual growth. I fail to see how one can be “spiritual,” but not be “religious” in some way, shape, or form.

Religious Growth is such as following a set of rules as requirements to be saved, or christian.

Umm… you do realize that Scripture explicitly spells out rules that we are supposed to follow, right?

While Spiritual growth is bent on relationships.

And you do realize that Christianity is bent on building a relationship with God by following the rules He has set up for us, right?

That is not only a showcase of how ignorant a person is of Jesus’/God/Christian teachings but narcissism.

And yet here you are, telling us that Catholics and Protestants have it all wrong, but you have it all right. Huh. You’re sounding just as narcissistic and ignorant as us.

Read the gospels when Jesus spoke against certain pharisees and religious men.

Jesus spoke out against those people because they were being hypocrites.

“The Laws says this, the laws says that” and they ended up making him deviant for not following the laws the way they did.

Again, because those people were being hypocrites. You do remember that Jesus told the Jews to listen to what the*** Pharisees were saying***, but not to do what the Pharisees were doing, right?

Jesus was against the hypocrisy found within some religious people, which is a entirely different matter than being against someone who is properly being religious.

Jesus --God himself-- showed that christianity is all about RELATIONSHIPS not rules. The love for God and the love for others is the only importance, not practices or styles of worship.

You’ve just contradicted yourself. “Sin no more” was a command that Christians are expected to try and follow. Therefore, it is a rule given to us by God Himself.

That is contradictory to the things Jesus/God himself commanded.

I fail to see the contradiction.

1. Jesus founded ONE Church. Therefore, ONE Church has to have the right set of rules.

If you compare all the Christian theologies, namely Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant, you will discover that they contradict themselves on many counts. Since Christ found one Church, which Church did He give the fullness of Truth to? The Christian beliefs out there today can’t possible all be right. Unless, of course, you want to try and argue that the Holy Spirit is the author of confusion.

1. Jesus Himself gave us rules to follow. So you’re saying Christ contradicts Himself?
2. Jesus Himself was a religious man. He was raised in the Jewish faith, remember? Therefore, Jesus perfectly observed all the rules and regulations of Judaism. After all, He couldn’t have fulfilled the Old Covenant and give us the New Covenant otherwise.

Don’t deny that is not the same premise that some have been saying here because you guys are arguing that i can’t be both when both churches have the type of spiritual growth in God, which is the only thing he ever talked about.

First, you cannot be on both sides. Catholicism and Protestantism just don’t match up. One cannot simultaneously hold to two contradicting ideas without being a hypocrite.

Second, it doesn’t matter if Catholics and Protestants worship the same God or have similar worship songs. Catholic theology and Protestant theology are extremely different. Catholicism and Protestantism are simply not identical.

Christianity is a religion based on relationships not rules, because that is what our God commanded.

And yet God gave us specific rules to follow.

Jesus/God himself told every single religious guy off when they tried to debate with him that disobeying the Laws of the Sabbath, Moses, judaisim is an offense to God.

And Jesus was rebuking hypocrisy, as I said before.

There is no right list of procedures that must be strictly followed.

False.

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.”

“Love God with your heart, mind, soul, and body.”

“Love thy neighbor as I have loved you.” Oh, and by the way, this command encompasses the entirety of the Ten Commandments.

“Unless one is born again of water and spirit, he or she will not enter the kingdom of Heaven.”

“Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him, and I will raise him on the last day.”

“Sin no more.”

“If one commits such-and-such sin (e.g. adultery), he or she will not inherit the kingdom of Heaven.”

“Take up your cross and follow me.”

“Pray for one another.”

There’s just a few of many, but I think it’s clear that God has indeed gave us rules that we are expected to follow.

Again, Jesus said: “You are forgiven, sin no more” not “Do what i do or pleases me first, and you are forgiven”.

And “sin no more” was most definitely a rule that was given to us. You can’t have it both way, you know. Either we must follow the rule of “sin no more,” or we must disregard it for the sake of this “no-rules relationship” of which you speak.

 

[Trebor135]

This post goes out to you and the rest.

I already don’t appreciate your tone.

It is views like this (you can’t be protestant or catholic at the same time) that shows how people forgot what Christianity is.

Catholic and Protestant theology conflict in serious ways. How can you believe in two contradictory things at the same time?

There is a difference between Religious Growth and Spiritual Growth.

Where is this in the Bible?

Religious Growth is such as following a set of rules as requirements to be saved, or christian. While Spiritual growth is bent on relationships.

But all relationships, as another poster mentioned, have rules–otherwise they’d fall apart. Can I cuss my best friend out or give his mom a black eye without expecting some kind of indignant response on his part?

“If you don’t agree 100% with the rules of our church then you are not a Catholic/Protestant… there is no salvation out side of our church”

What “rules” of the Catholic and Protestant churches do you have in mind?

Also, the Catholic Church teaches that those visibly outside of that communion can be saved. Most Protestants say that all true believers in Christ will be saved.

That is not only a showcase of how ignorant a person is of Jesus’/God/Christian teachings

What teachings of Christ am I ignorant of? Please cite chapter and verse.

but narcissism.

Your lack of charity (i.e., making an accusation without backing it up) is disappointing.

Read the gospels when Jesus spoke against certain pharisees and religious men.

Sure… how does that prove that all Church authority was made null and void? Jesus was criticizing the bad behaviour of the Pharisees.

“The Laws says this, the laws says that” and they ended up making him deviant for not following the laws the way they did.

Actually, Jesus would attack the Pharisees for not following their own “rules” properly. From Matthew chapter twenty-three:

[4] “They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger.
[5] They do all their deeds to be seen by men; for they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long,
[6] and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues,
[7] and salutations in the market places, and being called rabbi by men.”

“According to the LAW of Moses she should be stoned to death” What did Jesus do besides rebuking them? He showed that religious laws are not a way of living in holiness nor a way to please God.

Why did God hand down the Mosaic law in the first place?

What did he say to the woman who was going to be stoned?
“You are forgiven, sin no more”. You are forgiven came first before the command of change.

Of course, but she had to repent in order to be forgiven.

Christians of both sides who think there is only one right/real church warp this example into “sin no more (follow my rules), and you will be forgiven”.

They both say that contrite penitants will be forgiven (though Catholics add that confession is vital for serious sins–see John 20:19-23).

Jesus --God himself-- showed that christianity is all about RELATIONSHIPS not rules.

Where did he show this?

The love for God and the love for others is the only importance,

How would you define “love” here?

not practices or styles of worship.

What do you make of there being only one form of liturgy employed in heaven as depicted in the book of Revelation?

Continued in next post.

 

[Trebor135]

When the religious men asked Jesus, “what are the most** important commandments** to follow” his reply was “Love God and love your neighbors as yourself”. That is it. That is the only important rule from God, there was no set of practices that had to be followed strictly, yet christians such you people here to allot of protestants think that you have to stay devoted to one church because only one has the right set of rules. That is contradictory to the things Jesus/God himself commanded. Jesus came here and taught us that the way to God – the way for spiritual growth was relationships not religious rules/practices.

Jesus also said, “If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)

What you guys are saying is “it doesn’t matter if the other side bows down to the same God, and believes in him the same way we do… if they are not following our rules, if they are not doing the exact same things in this church, they are not like us. You can’t be in both churches because not fully accepting our ways is a sin, even if that different church prays to the same god and sings the same praise songs we do.”.

Well, can you be a follower of Karl Marx and Ludwig von Mises at the same time?

Don’t deny that is not the same premise that some have been saying here because you guys are arguing that i can’t be both when both churches have the type of spiritual growth in God, which is the only thing he ever talked about.

I was under the impression you thought Catholicism was all about following rules?

And what about the statements of Jesus pertaining to baptism in Matthew 28:19 and communion in John 6:48-58?

You and even Protestants of that same attitude have forgotten the words of our own Lord, that rules never mattered but the relationship with him and others that roots out of it.

See above.

“There is no salvation outside of the catholic church”… statements like that are reasons why most people left church or God because of that massive narcissistic attitude.

Do you have any sources for this claim?

The rest of your post reiterates what you’ve already said and what I’ve already covered.

 

[cameron_157]

We’ve already told you the correct teaching, if you don’t accept it by now we’re not getting through to you.

Rest assured, you’re the only person here who believes they can be a “Catholic-Protestant”. Everybody else here realizes you’re just Protestant. Calling yourself something else doesn’t change that, nor does dismissal of an analogy by poisoning the well (you made the analogy sound silly by saying I was “comparing religion to sports” without actually responding to it, a logical fallacy known as poisoning the well).

What you think is the only correct teaching is a wrong sense of mentality. As the TC proved, Jesus showed that relationships where more important than anything, that was his teachings. You are still pushing that “my church is the only right one” line and that’s what the biggest negative in christianity. Being opened to Protestantism and acknowledging them as Christians to isn’t poisoning the well, you are an example of the Pharisees and close minded religious men who Jesus told off. Re-read the TC’s post on the nature of the people Jesus spoke against, it is identical to what you are saying here.

The only correct teaching is to love God and your neighbor, the TC gave the part in the bible when Jesus was asked on what was the important laws. Jesus didn’t reference any practices did he?

 

[cameron_157]

I’m going to back the TC up because he is right.

Jesus also said, “If you would enter life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)

Why didn’t you quote the rest of that? "18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,"

These commandments involved Social crimes not religious practice.

Well, can you be a follower of Karl Marx and Ludwig von Mises at the same time?

You can be a follower of a mixture of their ideals which is what people who where raised in both churches do. This is additionally a bad argument here, because there is still one important set of similarities from Protestants and Catholics. It’s all about the God in the church, not the Church itself. Are you more of a follower of the church than you are a follower of God?

I was under the impression you thought Catholicism was all about following rules?

And what about the statements of Jesus pertaining to baptism in Matthew 28:19 and communion in John 6:48-58?

Protestants actually do those things too they even do the original style of baptism which is through submerging, they just don’t do it in the same style as us Catholics do. Blessing the water the same way, or giving the same type of dogmatic rituals to it. Come on, you are wrong period, you do notice that everything that Jesus said about “getting salvation” was dominantly through relationships, doing things like baptism and communion is showing your relationship with God by honoring him by keeping his activities alive. It doesn’t matter what dogmatic beliefs you attach to it, all that matters is the seriousness, the heart, and the love you have for God that makes taking communion and baptism a Christian life style.

You can claim that Jesus spoke against the pharisees as being hypocritical, that is not fully correct. The Pharisees where hypocritical due to the pride they had, and sorry that is nothing different from what you guys are showing thinking that only you can only serve in one church.

In time you will realize that the TC is right. There is a difference between spirituality and being religious, Jesus was an example of the importance to select spirituality over religion because look at all the things Jesus was accused for: “isn’t it unlawful to [insert] do this on the Sabbath”. He didn’t fully follow the Judaism code because laws are not what brings you to God but your relationship and your humanity to Him and the rest of the world. You didn’t quote the rest of Matt 19 because it supports what you are arguing against.