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I assume you mean that it is so in principle. The question is: At what point is a seemingly good idea that virtually always leads to terrible implementations admitted to be a bad idea?… sacred silence is an integral part of any Liturgy.
Context. Context. Context. In order for that to be a convincing description of Prayers at Foot of the Altar in old Mass, we need at least:… that the altar server make a confession of sins on the people’s behalf was simply an awful idea…This is simply a very large problem that the Council sought to rectify.
- Everybody can read.
- Everybody can afford books.
- Polyglot Missals have been published in local vernacular or
- Everybody knows some Latin
- And perhaps, Everybody feels comfortable speaking out loud during Mass
Now, why not say, with Martin Luther, that after vernacular languages had achieved a certain literary status in 14th century or so, there just wasn’t any reason for Mass or Bible to be exclusively in Latin?
I think the answer is: Because if you do, “inclusive” hymnals, ICEL banality, etc, are coming your way, guaranteed.
This is a hard truth about social engineering that conservatives have understood since at least time of Edmund Burke: Perfectly plausible, seemingly good ideas have unintended consequences. It’s wise to appreciate traditions that change organically.
Fair point.ASD;4659661:
While I do not have sources to indicate the opinion that people expressed, I think it is fair to say that quite apart from their feelings, the recitation by the people themselves of such prayers as the Confiteor ontologically improved their experience of the Mass.Did people actually say that speaking the altar boys’ responses out loud made them understand better or experience Mass more deeply, or whatever? Or is this something we’re just supposed to assume is true because it sounds plausible?
Perhaps. But, (1) Most people used to go to confession before Mass to get their ontological fix, so, from one point of view, no big gain there; and (2) the Confiteor at the foot of the altar was, by comparison, sort of ritualistic or symbolic, right? That seems OK to me. Like at Lavabo, the Priest celebrant isn’t really washing his hands.In other words, quite beyond what they felt, when the people were able to confess their own sins before God rather than standing by as it was done for them, they ontologically …The point is that those aspects of participation in which the Council called for the people to take part were indeed beneficial…making those responses which ought to be personal truly personal, such as confessing sins, wishing peace upon the Priest’s spirit, etc.
Sure, I appreciate that your response to OP involves objectively describing results of council rather than your own opinions. Fine. But it was a pastoral council, right? All these bold, clever innovations are mandated for our good? There has to be some kind of accountability or at least discussion and evaluation of results.Now my opinions don’t matter. What does matter is the bishops assembled in general council under the genuine guidance of the Holy Spirit. Our opinions are of little value compared to the decision off the Church in a general council.
Well, OK. I don’t feel like we gained much community that way.ASD;4659661:
…The judgment of the bishops was not that silence was not community and communal song or speech is, but rather that both are and that the Mass in its [old] form was lacking in one of these two aspects…It’s as if the bishops decided that speaking out loud with my neighbors is community; but praying in silence and stillness with them is not.
In most contexts, most conversations that one gets into about other stuff, that would be considered tantamount to saying, “It was a bad idea.” It kinda reminds me of old debates about “really existing socialism.”…Now in practice, clearly the silence has been overshadowed, and in most places even eliminated.
Hmm. What is a “liturgical action?”ASD;4659661:
The Psalm response, the Confiteor/Kyrie, giving their assent in the various amens (a very underrated part of the Mass, btw…the “Et cum spiritu tuo,” the Sanctus, Mysterium Fidei, Gloria, the hymnsTo clarify, besides maybe lay readers and EMHC, what are the “Liturgical actions taken by the whole congregation” now?
Yes.ASD;4659661:
…I do see, however, hope that the ball can be stopped.Once people have been told that reverent silence and stillness are inadequate, it’s pretty hard to tell them that they’re now too showy or that they’re merely celebrating themselves. And, once the ball is rolling, it’s not surprising to me that people get caught up in innovation, novelty, tinkering, updating, etc.