Read the Old Testament. King David had as personal a relationship with God as anyone could desire, yet after his affair with Bathsheba/murder of Uriah, God chose the prophet Nathan as His vehicle to point out David’s sin to him, of which it would seem he was otherwise ignorant/in denial. The priest performs this very necessary function in confession.I would assume that you talk or pray to your God when you are in the mood and not just at confession. So tell me why you can not admit your sins to God on a one-to-one basis?? I believe God is the only one that can forgive your sins. He is the only one that can truly see into your soul and judge whether you are truly repentant. I would want a God that I could talk to anytime I felt like it. To me it is a much more personal relationship.
I very much have a personal relationship with God & really shouldn’t presume yours is more or less than anyone elses or vice versa. I DO confess my sins to God, and I also confess them to a priest. Jesus sent his apostles out to be priests to the faithdul & hear their confessions. Dont take my word for it. Check out John 20:20-23.I would assume that you talk or pray to your God when you are in the mood and not just at confession. So tell me why you can not admit your sins to God on a one-to-one basis?? I believe God is the only one that can forgive your sins. He is the only one that can truly see into your soul and judge whether you are truly repentant. I would want a God that I could talk to anytime I felt like it. To me it is a much more personal relationship.
Yes, God chose the prophet Nathan as His vehicle to point out David’s sin to him. But today, in the N.T. era, what or who performs that function? A priest? No. God uses His Holy Spirit to convict us of our sin. Perhaps that is why Jason is aware of his sin and, if so, Jason could just as easily go to God in prayer, confessing to Him and receiving from Him cleansing (1 John 1:9).Read the Old Testament. King David had as personal a relationship with God as anyone could desire, yet after his affair with Bathsheba/murder of Uriah, God chose the prophet Nathan as His vehicle to point out David’s sin to him, of which it would seem he was otherwise ignorant/in denial. The priest performs this very necessary function in confession.
Again, that was how God chose to do that then. How does He do it today? If we believe God’s Word, in this case 1 John 1:9, we have God’s promise that when we confess our sins, HE is faithful and just to forgive our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. So today He uses His Word and as long as we obey it, we have His promise of forgiveness.More than that, God ALSO left it up to Nathan as His vehicle to TELL David that he was forgiven. “For your part, God has forgiven your sins”. No voice from the burning bush, no feeling in David’s waters, but a verbal assurance from God-anointed authority.
**If you are trusting in the promise of God, 1 John 1:9, you are not being “presumptuous or silly” in believing that you have the cleansing and forgiveness that He promises. **David, having a right relationship with God, was not presumptuous or silly enough to assume that merely praying for forgiveness secured it - or that a warm fuzzy glow after having prayed meant that he was forgiven. We are ignorant/confused/in denial about our sins, and so we can be about our forgiveness! THAT is why we need the verbal assurance of our priests, as David needed, and obtained, the verbal assurance of Nathan.
**I dare say that John 20:21-23 is one of the most misunderstood and misapplied passages in the entire Bible, partly due to a translation error. In understanding this passage, as correctly translated, context is everything, not only as that relates to the entire book of John but also as it relates to parallel passages in the other gospels.I very much have a personal relationship with God & really shouldn’t presume yours is more or less than anyone elses or vice versa. I DO confess my sins to God, and I also confess them to a priest. Jesus sent his apostles out to be priests to the faithdul & hear their confessions. Dont take my word for it. Check out John 20:20-23.
20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced when they saw the Lord. 21 (Jesus) said to them again, Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, Receive the holy Spirit. 23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.
My priest does the same thing as what is being done in John 20. I’m glad you confess your sins to God. I do too. I also enjoy hashing them out with priests as well because it makes me more conscious of sin, and I receive absolution for them. There is nothing wrong with confession or confessing to a priest. I wouldn’t confess to Bob the cashier, I mean really. I’m not too good to NOT confess my sins to a priest. Strengthens the inner sense of humility.
I’m glad you’re happy with the way you do things. That’s great. I’m striving for the higher road, as are the rest of the faithful that practice as I do.
Catholics confess to God every week at Mass and other times as well. And devout Catholics pray to God often, not just when we ‘feel like it’.I would assume that you talk or pray to your God when you are in the mood and not just at confession. So tell me why you can not admit your sins to God on a one-to-one basis?? I believe God is the only one that can forgive your sins. He is the only one that can truly see into your soul and judge whether you are truly repentant. I would want a God that I could talk to anytime I felt like it. To me it is a much more personal relationship.
These n-Cs apparently have never seen an Act of Contrition. Something that a lot of Catholics pray quite often. Myself included.Catholics confess to God every week at Mass and other times as well. And devout Catholics pray to God often, not just when we ‘feel like it’.
What an insulting post.
Nice dance but the truth is that Jesus said, " If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any; they are retained."I dare say that John 20:21-23 is one of the most misunderstood and misapplied passages in the entire Bible, partly due to a translation error. In understanding this passage, as correctly translated, context is everything, not only as that relates to the entire book of John but also as it relates to parallel passages in the other gospels.
If you look at the 4 gospels, there is at the end of each some sort of version of what has been called, “The Great Commission.” Matthew’s is in Matt. 28:19-20, which is essentially, go make disciples of all nations, etc. Mark’s is in Mark 16:15-18, which is similar, go into all the world and preach the gospel, whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, whoever does not believe will be damned, etc. Luke’s is in Luke 24:44-49, which is essentially, it behooved Christ to suffer and rise again the third day, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. But when we look at John’s gospel, we don’t seem to see that, unless it is in John 20:21-23, which says:
21. Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."
22. And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
23. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
The context of this one verse, John 20:23, upon which the entire theology of confession rests, is the preaching of the gospel and of repentance and forgiveness of sins by the apostles as they were sent by Jesus in all the world with the good news that Christ died for our sins and rose again. As they preached and people repented and believed the good news, their sins were forgiven and they were saved, just like when Peter preached on the day of Pentecost when 3000 heard and believed. They were told to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins, not confess their sins to Peter or any of the apostles (Acts 2:38). After that, Peter could declare to them that their sins had been forgiven, but he could also declare to anyone not believing the gospel that their sins were not forgiven, i.e., they were retained.
In addition to context (going into all the world, not sitting in a confessional booth inside a church house), we must consider a proper translation of the tense of the verbs used. It is their sins “have been forgiven [or remitted]”—past tense—so it was not the apostles themselves who did the forgiving (just as we say it is GOD, not the priest), but it was God in fulfillment of His promise of eternal life to everyone who believes. So, the order would be…a believer preaches the gospel to a nonbeliever…the nonbeliever believes the gospel…God forgives his sins… the original believer tells the new believer that his sins are forgiven…and the new believer goes on his way rejoicing, and telling some other nonbelievers the same message.
The foregoing is what we see played out throughout the Book of Acts. Nowhere do we see an example of someone going to a priest or apostle, confessing his sins, and being granted absolution. That is an invention of man to place men in bondage to other men, sinners in bondage to other sinners, something God never intended. In all of the N.T., there is not one word written by Peter, Paul, John, James, Jude or any other writer supporting the idea that sinners confess to a priest or anyone else to obtain forgiveness, unless of course their sin was against the one whose forgiveness is sought. The only two verses that are even remotely supportive are James 5:16 and 1 John 1:9 and neither of them mention an apostle or a priest, the latter one saying only HE, God, is faithful to forgive.
Further more Phil presupposed that Church doctrine is based upon an english translation of the Bible, or that’s what I gather from what he stated. He’s incorrect, that isn’t the case. Church Doctrine has been in place (particularly the Sacraments) since before there was a bible.Sorry, but that just doesn’t wash. Certainly there is a commission in John 20, but that interpretation of yours makes nonsense of the text, since it specifically tells them that they can forgive or retain sins, and how would they do that if they did not hear those sins in confession?
Furthermore it disjoints from the straight out apostolic teaching of St. James in the 5th chapter of his epistle where he specifically tells us, “14] Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15] and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16] Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” Confession also is taught by the author of John 20 in his 1st epistle, chapter 1 verse 9 where it says, " 8] If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10] If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." The idea that it suffices to confess privately and directly to God without the scriptural ministry of the church that Our Lord founded and built is a modern new wind of doctrines of men from the last 500 years.
I would think that the most personal relationship one can have with Christ is when one actually follows His commands. As Catholics we follow Christ’s commands in the Eucharist and in all of the seven sacraments. A sacrament is an encounter with Christ and absolutely nothing less. When we receive the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) we are in direct contact with our Lord. This is extended to us by His exchange of authority that we find in John 20:19-23.I would assume that you talk or pray to your God when you are in the mood and not just at confession. So tell me why you can not admit your sins to God on a one-to-one basis?? I believe God is the only one that can forgive your sins. He is the only one that can truly see into your soul and judge whether you are truly repentant. I would want a God that I could talk to anytime I felt like it. To me it is a much more personal relationship.
Yes, as is noted by the many Early Church Fathers we find that before the canon of Scripture was settled the Christian community was already celebrating the Eucharist as well as reconciliation. It never ceases to amaze me how so many of our non- Catholic friends use the very Bible that was acknowledged and maintained by the Catholic Church to hit us over the head and tell us that we don’t know what it says. Abslolutely astounding…God bless…teachccdFurther more Phil presupposed that Church doctrine is based upon an english translation of the Bible, or that’s what I gather from what he stated. He’s incorrect, that isn’t the case. Church Doctrine has been in place (particularly the Sacraments) since before there was a bible.
No, the truth is that Jesus said, "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained," as the New American Standard Version translates it. Their sins have already been forgiven or not forgiven (by God), based on their acceptance or rejection of the Gospel that God sent the apostles to preach. They are saved or damned based on whether they believe (Mark 16:15-16), and if saved, their sins are forgiven, if not saved, their sins are retained. The apostles are “forgiving” or “retaining” those sins based on what God does and they know that by the Holy Spirit.Nice dance but the truth is that Jesus said, " If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any; they are retained."
When a person hears the Gospel that Jesus died for his sins and rose again and he repents and believes that, ALL his sins are forgiven, since Jesus died for them, making full payment for them and that payment is applied to the repentant sinner by his repentance and belief. There is no need to take an inventory of sins, listing them for whoever preached the Gospel to him, and seeking specific absolution. THEY ARE ALL FORGIVEN.Sorry, but that just doesn’t wash. Certainly there is a commission in John 20, but that interpretation of yours makes nonsense of the text, since it specifically tells them that they can forgive or retain sins, and how would they do that if they did not hear those sins in confession?
If it “disjoints” from anything, it is because James deals with an entirely different subject and context. James is talking about believers in a church setting who are physically sick, some because of sin (“and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.”). They are told to call for the elders of the church to pray over them, anointing them with oil, and the promise is that “the prayer of faith will save the sick man and the Lord will raise him up and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.” The next sentence is the first to mention confession of any kind and it says, “Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.” As you can see, the primary consideration is physical healing for which the primary remedy is prayer, but since sickness may be from sin, sin is also dealt with. And how is it dealt with? “Confess your sins to one another,” not to the elders, specifically, but to one another. What does it mean, “to one another”? Obviously, it is NOT everybody confessing to one person, whether an elder or any other one person. It is to one another. Everybody confessing to everybody else. Or people in general confessing to other people in general. This is NOT a support for the present-day practice of everybody going to one person, a priest, and confessing sins and getting absolution based on his supposed power to forgive or retain sins. It just isn’t.Furthermore it disjoints from the straight out apostolic teaching of St. James in the 5th chapter of his epistle where he specifically tells us, “14] Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; 15] and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16] Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects.”
Yes, confession is taught in 1 John 1:9, but to whom? We are not told. And who grants the forgiveness? HE does. GOD does. That verse is just as much, or more, a support for private repentance before God and prayer TO GOD as it is for anything else. No apostle, not even John himself, is mentioned as the person to whom confession is to be made. Only HE, God, is mentioned.Confession also is taught by the author of John 20 in his 1st epistle, chapter 1 verse 9 where it says, [8]“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10] If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.”
No, not really. It is as old as the scriptures themselves. All first century stuff.The idea that it suffices to confess privately and directly to God without the scriptural ministry of the church that Our Lord founded and built is a modern new wind of doctrines of men from the last 500 years.
You are actually in opposition to Luther in this. Luther placed a GREAT emphasis on Confession, although he did rebuke some abuses in relation to it.I would assume that you talk or pray to your God when you are in the mood and not just at confession. So tell me why you can not admit your sins to God on a one-to-one basis?? I believe God is the only one that can forgive your sins. He is the only one that can truly see into your soul and judge whether you are truly repentant. I would want a God that I could talk to anytime I felt like it. To me it is a much more personal relationship.
Luke 5:12-14
Why did He tell the man to go see the priest? Because the man was an outcast from society because of his uncleanness, much like a sinner is an outcast. It was the priests who, according to the Law of Moses, were given the authority to determine if a person was clean or unclean.Now there was a man full of leprosy 3 in one of the towns where he was; and when he saw Jesus, he fell prostrate, pleaded with him, and said, “Lord, if you wish, you can make me clean.”
13
Jesus stretched out his hand, touched him, and said, “I do will it. Be made clean.” And the leprosy left him immediately.
14
Then he ordered him not to tell anyone, but “Go, show yourself to the priest and offer for your cleansing what Moses prescribed; 4 that will be proof for them.”
Leviticus 13:9-13
As in confession, Jesus is the one who forgives our sins, but it is the priest who readmits us to good standing within the Church, just as the Levitical priests did in the Old Testament. Also, the reason you don’t see converts confessing their sins to the apostles is because baptism remits all sin. Sacramental confession is necessary for the forgiveness of sins after baptism, as the Catholic Church authoritatively teaches."When someone is stricken with leprosy, he shall be brought to the priest.
10
Should the priest, on examining him, find that there is a white scab on the skin which has turned the hair white and that there is raw flesh in it,
11
it is skin leprosy that has long developed. The priest shall declare the man unclean without first quarantining him, since he is certainly unclean.
12
2 If leprosy breaks out on the skin and, as far as the priest can see, covers all the skin of the stricken man from head to foot,
13
should the priest then, on examining him, find that the leprosy does cover his whole body, he shall declare the stricken man clean; since it has all turned white, the man is clean.
Apparently. In any event, I follow Christ, not Luther.Martin Luther practiced frequent confession throughout his entire life, often spending hours at a time in the confessional. His Small Catechism devotes a chapter to the procedure for confessing one’s sins and receiving absolution from the pastor.
Did Luther misinterpret the Bible?
But the apostles were given a custodianship…“if you forgive the sins of any…if you retain the sins of any” (John 20:23).I would assume that you talk or pray to your God when you are in the mood and not just at confession. So tell me why you can not admit your sins to God on a one-to-one basis?? I believe God is the only one that can forgive your sins. He is the only one that can truly see into your soul and judge whether you are truly repentant. I would want a God that I could talk to anytime I felt like it. To me it is a much more personal relationship.