SPLIT: Confession to a priest not necessary

[Tomster]

Context, context, context. Do you see the different contexts of those two situations?

The first one involves two “brothers” and the general teaching that we must forgive each other, essentially, without limit.

The second one involves the preaching of the Gospel and what happens when someone hears it, repents and believes it—he is forgiven, his sins are forgiven—vs. someone hears it but rejects it—his sins are not forgiven but retained. The preacher in the latter case simply declares that his sins “have been retained.” It is not a matter of whether the preacher forgives anyone’s sins—that is up to God. But the preacher knows by the Holy Spirit whether the sins have been forgiven by God or have been retained by the sinner, and he declares that to the hearer. “Your sins have been forgiven” or “Your sins have been retained.”

I assume you have read all the prior posts in this discussion. If not, please do.

Obviously you have not read your Bible lately.

 

[Phil12123]

…to St. Peter is given supreme power as God’s representative to exclude from or admit into heaven.

That statement is amazing. So, you really think Peter is at heaven’s gate right now and HE decides who gets in and who doesn’t? Are you serious?

That reminds me of some Mormons who in the past have taught that no one gets into heaven unless they go through Joseph Smith. Or some Catholics who have taught that no one gets into heaven unless they go through Mary. I said some, not all.

In any event, you have successfully installed Peter as a mediator between God and man, contrary to 1 Tim. 2:5.

 

[Phil12123]

Obviously you have not read your Bible lately.

Now there’s a real scholarly response!

 

[jmcrae]

That statement is amazing. So, you really think Peter is at heaven’s gate right now and HE decides who gets in and who doesn’t? Are you serious?

That image is a metaphor for what Jesus gave to St. Peter - the “keys” (that is to say, the authority) to open and shut the gates of Heaven - meaning that St. Peter’s word is law. “What you (Peter) bind on earth is bound in Heaven; what you loose on earth is loosed in Heaven.” This is the disciplinary authority of the Church. St. Peter passed this authority to his successors, on down to Pope Benedict XVI, today.

This doesn’t make St. Peter to be a “mediator” since St. Peter, nor his successors, ever dies for our sins. Rather, he is the authority of the Church - we are required to obey him, since whatever he commands (binds) is commanded in Heaven, and whatever he leaves us free to choose for ourselves (looses) is left free in Heaven.

There is nothing “amazing” about any of this. God has always chosen certain men to be in authority over His assembly - Abraham over his tribe, Moses over the 12 Tribes, David over the nation, and St. Peter over the Church.

 

[Phil12123]

As St. John Chysostom says: “Those who are living on earth are given the control of heavenly affairs, and have a power which God has given neither to angels nor to archangels; for it was not said to them, ‘Whatsoever,’ etc. Earthly rulers have indeed the power of binding but only over the body; this power of binding, however, concerns the soul itself, and controls heaven; whatever priests do below, God ratifies above, and the Lord confirms the decision of the servant. For what else did he give them than complete heavenly power? For he said, ‘What sins you shall remit they are remitted, and what sins you shall retain they are retained.’ What power could be greater than that? ’ The Father has given all judgement to the Son.’ And I see them entrusted with all this by the Son.” - St. John Chrysostom (344 A.D. - 407 A.D.) "De Sacerdotio, iii

This is so clearly a fair summary of the meaning of these texts that we can leave the saint’s explanation without further discussion. The Church, then, has power to bind and loose, and this power includes that of forgiving sin.

What sins GOD forgives, no man can retain. What sins GOD does NOT forgive, no man can forgive.

 

[jmcrae]

What sins GOD forgives, no man can retain. What sins GOD does NOT forgive, no man can forgive.

And we know which is which when the priest tells us, because most of us like to assume that nothing we do is really “all that bad,” as witnessed by the number of women who think abortion should be their right.

 

[SF3CHURCH]

One last thing I want to point out is that much of our doctrine is not based so much on what Jeus said explicitly in the gospels but what He did. Although His primary reason for coming to Earth was His death and resurrection, He also felt great compassion and pity for His people. That is why He went about curing the sick, raising the dead, and casting out demons. You also have to understand that Jesus not only healed the body, but He also healed the soul. In a number of instances, He forgives the sins of people, and it is a great comfort to them.

Mark 2:9-12

Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Rise, pick up your mat and walk’?
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6 But that you may know that the Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth"–
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he said to the paralytic, “I say to you, rise, pick up your mat, and go home.”
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He rose, picked up his mat at once, and went away in the sight of everyone. They were all astounded and glorified God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this.”

In this example of the paralytic, Jesus heals both body and soul and proves His authority to forgive sins.

Likewise we have the example of the sinful woman mentioned in Luke 7:

So I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven; hence, she has shown great love. 13 But the one to whom little is forgiven, loves little."
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He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”
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The others at table said to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”
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But he said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

From the very lips of Jesus she hears that her sins have been forgiven, just as the thief crucified next to Jesus hears that he will be in paradise with Jesus. How wonferful it must have been for these people to receive the assurance from Christ Himself that their sins were forgiven. What a shame that the Lord did not give all His people throughout time a chance to receive the same assurance from His lips!

But wait, He did! Why else would He have given the Apostles the authority to bind and loose, to forgive sins or not to forgive sins. They were instructed by Jesus to do precisely what He had done while Earth: to cure the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons, and forgive sinners of their transgressions.

Luke 10:16-22

Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me."
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The seventy (-two) returned rejoicing, and said, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us because of your name.”
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Jesus said, “I have observed Satan fall like lightning 8 from the sky.
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Behold, I have given you the power ‘to tread upon serpents’ and scorpions and upon the full force of the enemy and nothing will harm you.
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Nevertheless, do not rejoice because the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice because your names are written in heaven.”
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At that very moment he rejoiced (in) the holy Spirit and said, “I give you praise, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for although you have hidden these things from the wise and the learned you have revealed them to the childlike. 9 Yes, Father, such has been your gracious will.
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All things have been handed over to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son and anyone to whom the Son wishes to reveal him.”

 

[JustaServant]

The truely wonderful thing about Confession is that it is so right for human psychology. It’s a confrontation with the self, which is then revealed to another, in the person of the priest. So in one action Confession takes away complacancy, selfishness. and the idea of sinlessness.
Then you are placed at the feet of the Crucified One, and are confronted with your wretchedness, and His saving love.

 

[Ignatius]

I believe God is the only one that can forgive your sins. He is the only one that can truly see into your soul and judge whether you are truly repentant.

Because we follow what Christ and the Apostles taught. Have a look here: catholic.org/video/?v=654

 

[LutheranDK]

Apparently. In any event, I follow Christ, not Luther.

LOL…
So…some of the greatest theologians have misinterpreted the (very clear) verses in Scripture concerning confession, while some random poster on an internet forum, who probably also thinks that the KJV is THE ONLY Word of God, have got it right?

Don’t make me laugh…

And finally: Luther followed Christ. So your alternative is a strawman…

 

[JonNC]

I would assume that you talk or pray to your God when you are in the mood and not just at confession. So tell me why you can not admit your sins to God on a one-to-one basis?? I believe God is the only one that can forgive your sins. He is the only one that can truly see into your soul and judge whether you are truly repentant. I would want a God that I could talk to anytime I felt like it. To me it is a much more personal relationship.

It is always good to see other Lutherans here, but I think, dragon, you have not received good catechesis in this area. I humbly recommend you talk to your pastor, or at least read the Small Catechism, and other confessional writings about confession/Holy Absolution.

Jon

 

[Des]

What sins GOD forgives, no man can retain. What sins GOD does NOT forgive, no man can forgive.

lol I’ve never seen such clear twisting as with this one single tiny post.

And Phil, must you write every response in large annoying blue letters as if to signify what you have to say is more important than the rest of us? That every word you speak should be firstly heard above the rest? Not very respectful IMHO.

 

[Ray98362]

I haven’t seen anyone specifically mention this, so I will
I pray to God about my sins often, sometimes it’s several times per day. However, that does NOT mean that they don’t need to be mentioned at my next confession for me to receive absolution.

 

[garysibio]

If you are trusting in the promise of God, 1 John 1:9, you are not being “presumptuous or silly” in believing that you have the cleansing and forgiveness that He promises.

Phil,

I’m assuming that you are an Evangelical. You sound a lot like I did when I was one. If I’m wrong, I apologize.

First let me point out that you are absolutely 100% correct when you say that only God can forgive sins. This is the teaching of the Catholic Church as well. The priest is acting in the authority (name) of Jesus when he says our sins are forgiven. The priest is not acting in his own name when he absolves us of our sins.

If I am correct about you being an Evangelical, you believe that, when you are born again, all of your sins - past, present and future - are forgiven. That is contrary to Scripture. In fact, the passage it contradicts is the one you mentioned above.

St. John says that “if we confess our sins, He (God) is will to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness,” While it is true that God knows our sins before we commit them, we do not. Therefore it is impossible for us to confess our sins prior to comitting them because we have to know them before we can confess them.

Now, you might argue that confession, in this context, means admitting to God that you are a sinner, not necessarily enumerating your sins. In that case, why would John be writing that to people who were already believers? They would have already made that type of confession, would they not? But what they could not yet do is specifically confess future sins.

God could have set things up so that we didn’t need to confess our sins to Him through a priest but He chose to do so. Why resist Him? Do you not trust Him?

 

[jackregnier]

Hello folks, I will make a comment for one to consider. A born again believer receives remission of sins because of the atonement. A believer can receive forgiveness of sins by using 1 John 1:9. Do you guys see the difference? One more thing: All sins are remissed and all means all, past, present, and future.
Peace, Jack

 

[jmcrae]

Hello folks, I will make a comment for one to consider. A born again believer receives remission of sins because of the atonement. A believer can receive forgiveness of sins by using 1 John 1:9. Do you guys see the difference? One more thing: All sins are remissed and all means all, past, present, and future.

   Peace,   Jack

This has already been dealt with, but to summarize:

1. To “confess” is to name the specifics aloud in the presence of another. We see this when we look at the commandment to confess our faith. If “confess” could mean simply acknowledging to God in the privacy of one’s own mind, or making some kind of vague statement that could be inferred to mean almost anything, then the commandment to “confess the faith” would not have resulted in so many early Christians being thrown to the lions, since they could have “confessed their faith” in the privacy of their own minds, without their neighbors ever finding out about it.

So we see that the Early Church understood the commandment to mean naming the specifics aloud in the presence of at least one other person.

1. It is impossible to confess sins that you have not yet committed, since you do not yet know what they are. God is faithful to forgive us when we confess our sins - but this does not imply or infer that we can go ahead and simply not confess them at all (not mention them aloud in the presence of another) - God is merciful indeed, but He will not be mocked - when He commands us to "confess"it means exactly that - that we must “confess.”

 

[garysibio]

Phil,

Could I ask you a personal favor? Please don’t use the blue type. For some reason it hurts my eyes and makes it impossible for me to read your posts. I would appreciate it.

 

[JonNC]

This has already been dealt with, but to summarize:

1. To “confess” is to name the specifics aloud in the presence of another. We see this when we look at the commandment to confess our faith. If “confess” could mean simply acknowledging to God in the privacy of one’s own mind, or making some kind of vague statement that could be inferred to mean almost anything, then the commandment to “confess the faith” would not have resulted in so many early Christians being thrown to the lions, since they could have “confessed their faith” in the privacy of their own minds, without their neighbors ever finding out about it.

So we see that the Early Church understood the commandment to mean naming the specifics aloud in the presence of at least one other person.

1. It is impossible to confess sins that you have not yet committed, since you do not yet know what they are. God is faithful to forgive us when we confess our sins - but this does not imply or infer that we can go ahead and simply not confess them at all (not mention them aloud in the presence of another) - God is merciful indeed, but He will not be mocked - when He commands us to "confess"it means exactly that - that we must “confess.”

I think, generally, Lutherans would agree, accept to say that it is impossible to know
all of the ways we have offended and sinned against God. Therefore, in the Lutheran confessional, it is not expected or required that one would or could confess them all specifically.
Ps. 19:12 *“Who can understand sins? from my secret ones cleanse me, O Lord:” *

Jon

 

[jmcrae]

I think, generally, Lutherans would agree, accept to say that it is impossible to know
all of the ways we have offended and sinned against God. Therefore, in the Lutheran confessional, it is not expected or required that one would or could confess them all specifically.
Ps. 19:12 *“Who can understand sins? from my secret ones cleanse me, O Lord:” *

Jon

With regard to venial sins, this is true - which is why we have the Penitential Rite at the beginning of every Mass, as well as holy water at all the entrances.

in the Confessional, we confess all of our mortal sins - those we did “with malice aforethought” as the old lawyer types would say. (Grave matter, freedom to choose, and full knowledge)

 

[jackregnier]

What does Acts 2:38 say? It’s talking about remission of sins. It is not talking about forgiveness of sins by a priest. It is the salvvation message of the Gospel…, fulfilling the Great Commission. Nowhere does it say that Peter or anyone set up cconfessional booths and heard confessions.
Peace, Jack