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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
Right on the money.
- Status
T
Tantum_ergo
Guest
From what I see (and I could be wrong), many proponents of the “come as you are” sincerely feel (and that’s the operative word) that Mass is supposed to be all about meals, community, feeling good, and waves of good feeling. Since this is what they strive for, clothing choice is either for feeling ‘good’ (about themselves), or shouldn’t MATTER since again the overarching goal is feeling ‘good.’
And since dressing ‘up’ is not supposed to be comfortable (though they should read C.S. Lewis on that) and since it either does not lead to feeling good (for the people who feel they’re being made to feel grubby) or it leads to feeling ‘holier than thou’ (like dressing down doesn’t?), those who propose a more formal than casual attire are seen as THREATS. Mostly it’s threats based on authority or the perception of authority.
As another poster mentioned, there is a lot of the spoiled child’s “I don’t WANNA dress up. I wanna do what I want, not what YOU want.” Sure, they’re gonna see the “please try to dress nicely” as the ‘parents’ they despise and whom (since many are quite old now) they managed never to be themselves! (“My child is going to be my FRIEND.” Gag)
This of course does not refer to EVERY single person who ‘dresses down’ (obviously) nor for every single occasion. Even people who usually try to dress with respect can have situations happen where they have to go at ‘less than their best’. The difference I think is that they look on these situations as being something out of the ordinary, not a reason to celebrate “God the cozy.”
And since dressing ‘up’ is not supposed to be comfortable (though they should read C.S. Lewis on that) and since it either does not lead to feeling good (for the people who feel they’re being made to feel grubby) or it leads to feeling ‘holier than thou’ (like dressing down doesn’t?), those who propose a more formal than casual attire are seen as THREATS. Mostly it’s threats based on authority or the perception of authority.
As another poster mentioned, there is a lot of the spoiled child’s “I don’t WANNA dress up. I wanna do what I want, not what YOU want.” Sure, they’re gonna see the “please try to dress nicely” as the ‘parents’ they despise and whom (since many are quite old now) they managed never to be themselves! (“My child is going to be my FRIEND.” Gag)
This of course does not refer to EVERY single person who ‘dresses down’ (obviously) nor for every single occasion. Even people who usually try to dress with respect can have situations happen where they have to go at ‘less than their best’. The difference I think is that they look on these situations as being something out of the ordinary, not a reason to celebrate “God the cozy.”
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The_Curt_Jester
Guest
That reminds me of a story I know of a group of people who attended a wedding in sloppy clothes entirely splattered with mud and soaked. Due to circumstances they couldn’t avoid (dirt road, flat tire, no spare, rainy day) they couldn’t change in time for the wedding and had to head straight there in what they were wearing. These were all people who ordinarily dressed nicely for Sunday Masses, not to mention a wedding!
But that, as you say, is an exception. I pretty much agree with your assessment of the overall situation. I actually heard once: “God doesn’t care if you go to Mass without any clothes on. The only reason you wear clothes is so other people don’t get offended.” I couldn’t believe my ears. I’d heard some whoppers before, but that one took the cake.
T
TheMc
Guest
Very well stated. I agree this all reeks of the “whiney kid syndrome”. It is all in people’s attitude. If they truly understood what was happening, they would be digging up the nicest clothes they had, or even [gasp] buying nicer ones!
Personally, I flip if I don’t have my suit and bow tie to wear. I’m not saying everyone needs to wear a suit every week, but I do believe men need to wear ties, and dress up well en masse (no pun intended).
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TheMc
Guest
I’m not blaming you, because you understand, but people keep bringing up exceptions why they shouldn’t have to dress up.
- I don’t have the money to buy nice clothes
- I don’t have the time to change into nice clothes
- Etc…
“I don’t waaaan’t to dress up! Why do I have to dress up?!?”
You don’t want to? Suck it up and put on that tie.
M
Monica4316
Guest
I agree that God looks at our hearts rather than our clothing, - but I do think we should dress in the best clothes we have for Mass, just as a sign of respect… like how we would dress for a king… if a person’s best is jeans, then they could wear jeans. It’s not about how expensive the clothing is, but the effort we put in.I have never found a scripture reading that tells us that Jesus changed His clothes before He prayed in the garden or before the last supper. He told us that if we have two coats, we should give one to a person who has no coat. Clearly He wants us to wear the same clothes to Church as we do everyday, otherwise, He would have told us to keep one coat to use for Mass!!!
Modesty is of course necessary and prevails inside or out of Church. I was never aware that people paid attention to what others were wearing in church until one person made a comment to me. I rode my motorcycle to mass and was wearing my best leather jacket and jeans. An elderly woman made a point of approaching me after Mass to tell me not to worry. God loves me no matter what I look like
The clothing on a person’s back is absolutely irrelevant to our Father. He told us that all material goods are irrelevant. He is not impressed. If a person wishes to wear his “Sunday Best” to Church or wears everyday clothes, I rarely even notice, so it makes no difference to me.
S
Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
Then why does the liturgy say, “Happy are we who are called to His supper?”
A
adstrinity
Guest
- Mass, not “mass”.
- It’s not bread & wine we are sharing.
- HE DOESN’T REPEAT THE SACRIFICE, it is the SAME sacrifice.
My priest also rides a motorcycle…in his cassock. I would think that would be harder than a suit and tie…or, if it really is a big deal, wear your street clothes while riding your motorcycle and wear a backpack with a change of clothes. Get to church 15 minutes early, change and pray.
M
mullenpm
Guest
foundmyfaith, why do you wear sandals to Mass?
And please don’t say “because Jesus wore them.”:nope:
And please don’t say “because Jesus wore them.”:nope:
C
Catholic90
Guest
I am not Foundmyfaith, but I wear flip flops any day there is not snow on the ground. I wear them because I cannot stand shoes. Some are plain, some are dressy, some are black, some are blue, some have little sequined flowers, but all are open and not constricting.foundmyfaith, why do you wear sandals to Mass?
And please don’t say “because Jesus wore them.”:nope:
M
mullenpm
Guest
Catholic90, Okay, so you wear flip flops because you hate shoes.
What does that have to do with how you present yourself to the Lord. You are saying that your dislike for shoes is stronger than your love for the Lord.
Simple as that. Unless you are physically unable to wear shoes I don’t care how many colors or designs of flip flops you have. None are acceptable to wear to Mass.
I remember a number of years ago when a group of young women (can’t remember now exactly who they were); were invited to visit the President at the White House. A group picture was taken, of course, for the newspaper. Some of the young women were wearing flip flops and it hit the print news and television news like an explosion. Imagine, wearing flip flops to visit the President of the United States, at the White House, no less.
And almost everyone agree with the criticism. I’ll bet those young women never wore flip flops again anywhere.
I suppose a visit to the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament would not be as important and would not make headlines.
What does that have to do with how you present yourself to the Lord. You are saying that your dislike for shoes is stronger than your love for the Lord.
Simple as that. Unless you are physically unable to wear shoes I don’t care how many colors or designs of flip flops you have. None are acceptable to wear to Mass.
I remember a number of years ago when a group of young women (can’t remember now exactly who they were); were invited to visit the President at the White House. A group picture was taken, of course, for the newspaper. Some of the young women were wearing flip flops and it hit the print news and television news like an explosion. Imagine, wearing flip flops to visit the President of the United States, at the White House, no less.
And almost everyone agree with the criticism. I’ll bet those young women never wore flip flops again anywhere.
I suppose a visit to the Lord in the Blessed Sacrament would not be as important and would not make headlines.
D
Domnall
Guest
I’m gonna throw another spin on the idea of having causal clothes at Mass…
I’m sure we can all agree that people should not be wearing things distracting to others…fine. That just plan makes sense.
However, I have an argument against the whole “Dressing up to see Jesus” claim. The whole idea of “dressing up” for anything is a human made function. If you ask anthropologists, they’ll explain to you that dressing up is a tactic used to exhibit wealth and status (in any society.) However, Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world. He doesn’t need to see us in shirts and ties to know what we feel in our hearts. He sees past our appearance and straight to the heart.
In my opinion, one shouldn’t have to dress up for a job interview anyways. It has no bearing on how good at the job you will be or how honest and trustworthy you are. Our politicians wear dress clothes, remember
However, as long as people are going to (wrongly) consider fashion as an important element in the secular world, I’m gonna dress up when need be. Though, Jesus sees past this.
The clothes do not make the man.
Peace, all.
I’m sure we can all agree that people should not be wearing things distracting to others…fine. That just plan makes sense.
However, I have an argument against the whole “Dressing up to see Jesus” claim. The whole idea of “dressing up” for anything is a human made function. If you ask anthropologists, they’ll explain to you that dressing up is a tactic used to exhibit wealth and status (in any society.) However, Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world. He doesn’t need to see us in shirts and ties to know what we feel in our hearts. He sees past our appearance and straight to the heart.
In my opinion, one shouldn’t have to dress up for a job interview anyways. It has no bearing on how good at the job you will be or how honest and trustworthy you are. Our politicians wear dress clothes, remember
However, as long as people are going to (wrongly) consider fashion as an important element in the secular world, I’m gonna dress up when need be. Though, Jesus sees past this.
The clothes do not make the man.
Peace, all.
M
MtnDwellar
Guest
I am surprised that there are so many proponents of dressing up for Mass. I went to Masses at two different churches this weekend. Out of several hundreds of people, I only saw one man wearing a suit.
I know that clothing does not matter to Christ. If a person feels holier or feels like he is making a worthy sacrifice when he wears dress clothes, then he should do that. For me, wearing a suit to participate in the sacrifice seems inappropriate, but I will never tell anyone else how to dress. It doesn’t matter.
I know that clothing does not matter to Christ. If a person feels holier or feels like he is making a worthy sacrifice when he wears dress clothes, then he should do that. For me, wearing a suit to participate in the sacrifice seems inappropriate, but I will never tell anyone else how to dress. It doesn’t matter.
F
foundmyfaith
Guest
Because Jesus wore them. Ok, just kidding.foundmyfaith, why do you wear sandals to Mass?
And please don’t say “because Jesus wore them.”:nope:
Because the entire female population of my Parish is wearing them. This morning, I am actually wearing a skirt, blouse and sandals. This might make me the most dressed up person at Mass. My Parish is pretty casual. Casual, but serious about the Lord. This is possibly the most devout group of people I have ever had the pleasure of praying with. We all dressed up for Easter Sunday. The rest of the Easter season… Not so much.
Of course, the a/c doesn’t appear to work either. I nearly melted during Adoration on Friday.
My Priest is apparently cool with it. Our Parish community is obviously ok with it. It appears to be part of the ‘culture’ of this Parish. I wore a dress to Mass in a lot of Parishes and never felt as close to the Lord as I do in this Parish.
Of course, I don’t suggest that they start wearing short shorts or tank tops. I think Father would have quite a bit to say about THAT.
M
MissRose73
Guest
I would say flip flops are appropriate if you can truly for health reasons cannot wear any other type of shoes. Otherwise, save them for outside of Mass and wear them other places.
I have no issues with sandals that appear to be dressy or semi dressy for both genders at Mass. Flip flop styles or very casual styles belong at the beach, the pool, etc.
I have no issues with sandals that appear to be dressy or semi dressy for both genders at Mass. Flip flop styles or very casual styles belong at the beach, the pool, etc.
T
TheMc
Guest
Sandals? When serving Mass?
M
MissRose73
Guest
For the congregation, not servers. Ideally, I’d rather see them wearing regular shoes.
S
Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
Clothing is an artificial human construction. Let’s all go nekkid to Mass.I’m gonna throw another spin on the idea of having causal clothes at Mass…
I’m sure we can all agree that people should not be wearing things distracting to others…fine. That just plan makes sense.
However, I have an argument against the whole “Dressing up to see Jesus” claim. The whole idea of “dressing up” for anything is a human made function. If you ask anthropologists, they’ll explain to you that dressing up is a tactic used to exhibit wealth and status (in any society.) However, Jesus’ kingdom is not of this world. He doesn’t need to see us in shirts and ties to know what we feel in our hearts. He sees past our appearance and straight to the heart.
In my opinion, one shouldn’t have to dress up for a job interview anyways. It has no bearing on how good at the job you will be or how honest and trustworthy you are. Our politicians wear dress clothes, remember
However, as long as people are going to (wrongly) consider fashion as an important element in the secular world, I’m gonna dress up when need be. Though, Jesus sees past this.
The clothes do not make the man.
Peace, all.
Hey, Jesus can see right through us, so with your argument, why not?
T
The_Curt_Jester
Guest
Someone actually told me once that God wouldn’t care if we went to Mass without any clothing on and that the only reason we wear clothing is for the benefit of other people. Of course, I think that God certainly cares about what one does with himself and the kind of attitude that these types of suggestions show is on that carries over into every other aspect of life as well.
E
EasterJoy
Guest
The idea that wearing one’s best clothing for worship is just something to show off wealth is nonsense. Even the Amish have dress that distinctive for Sunday. Just because we can be prideful (or envious) in matters of dress hardly means that it is impossible to be slothful, lustful, or self-indulgent.
Why would particular clothing be required for the priest, while the expectation of the laity is that their clothing does not matter? Do we think we’re not all that vital to the work of liturgy? Do we think that only the reverence and grooming of the priest make any difference in how hard or easy it is for the laity present to be as attentive and reverent as we ought to be?
We are a universal church. Depending on your way of estimating, there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 700 million to 1 billion or so of us. There isn’t a rule about what the laity have to wear not only because not all of the laity have anything but one change of clothing, but also because reverence expresses itself in dress in different ways in different places.
Yet if you go to a country or you were to revisit this country in a time when most people only had a very limited number of clothes to wear, you would find that a set of clothing appropriate for solemn occasions is a priority just behind keeping warm and decent for the demands of manual labor. If people have more than two sets of clothing, it is not unusual for the third set to be “Sunday clothes.” In places where bathing and grooming is difficult, worship is the first activity that warrants that sacrifice. Yet we hear complaints from people who will not even do the grooming for Mass that they would consider the minimum for their school or workplace.
It is not how much you dress up for Mass that is important, so much as a) whether you take as much care when you dress for Sunday Mass as you do for events of far less importance and b) whether you trouble yourself to do the grooming that local custom deems necessary for important players at an important event. We may not dress as tourists or spectators. We are* in* the liturgy, it is our work of worship, not just the work of the priests, readers, and altar servers. Although what this means can differ by local custom and person discerment, we ought to dress accordingly.
As for sandals, there are religious orders of both men and women for whom sandals are the normal footwear. Obviously, sandals can be entirely appropriate for Mass, even when shoes are a finanicially-available choice. There are even places where (gasp!) bare feet are acceptable in church. It depends on the situation and the local custom.
If you habitually wear something to Sunday Mass that most people who could see inside your closet would describe as being on the end of “casual” rather than on the end of “Sunday best”, ask yourself about that.
Why would particular clothing be required for the priest, while the expectation of the laity is that their clothing does not matter? Do we think we’re not all that vital to the work of liturgy? Do we think that only the reverence and grooming of the priest make any difference in how hard or easy it is for the laity present to be as attentive and reverent as we ought to be?
We are a universal church. Depending on your way of estimating, there are somewhere in the neighborhood of 700 million to 1 billion or so of us. There isn’t a rule about what the laity have to wear not only because not all of the laity have anything but one change of clothing, but also because reverence expresses itself in dress in different ways in different places.
Yet if you go to a country or you were to revisit this country in a time when most people only had a very limited number of clothes to wear, you would find that a set of clothing appropriate for solemn occasions is a priority just behind keeping warm and decent for the demands of manual labor. If people have more than two sets of clothing, it is not unusual for the third set to be “Sunday clothes.” In places where bathing and grooming is difficult, worship is the first activity that warrants that sacrifice. Yet we hear complaints from people who will not even do the grooming for Mass that they would consider the minimum for their school or workplace.
It is not how much you dress up for Mass that is important, so much as a) whether you take as much care when you dress for Sunday Mass as you do for events of far less importance and b) whether you trouble yourself to do the grooming that local custom deems necessary for important players at an important event. We may not dress as tourists or spectators. We are* in* the liturgy, it is our work of worship, not just the work of the priests, readers, and altar servers. Although what this means can differ by local custom and person discerment, we ought to dress accordingly.
As for sandals, there are religious orders of both men and women for whom sandals are the normal footwear. Obviously, sandals can be entirely appropriate for Mass, even when shoes are a finanicially-available choice. There are even places where (gasp!) bare feet are acceptable in church. It depends on the situation and the local custom.
If you habitually wear something to Sunday Mass that most people who could see inside your closet would describe as being on the end of “casual” rather than on the end of “Sunday best”, ask yourself about that.
- Status