Split from "A question for some Protestants who try to proselytize Catholics": Are Catholic priests "Forbidden to Marry?"

[jmcrae]

Are you sure you want to get into numbers? Seems your 300 is for one yr. What if one of those 300 were your child? How much money has it cost the CC?

There are literally thousands each year who are abused by public school teachers, Scout masters, and sport coaches, which makes the 300 look like a small number.

Obviously, one would not want one’s child to be in either the group of 300, nor in the group of thousands, but from a statistical point of view, it seems as if one’s child is safer at Youth Group in the Catholic Church than anywhere else.

And, again, again, and again, trust your instincts, believe your child, and call the police if you have hard evidence of criminal behaviour, no matter who is doing it.

 

[Black_Knight]

Are you sure you want to get into numbers? Seems your 300 is for one yr. What if one of those 300 were your child? How much money has it cost the CC?

Note also that most of those are 20+ years old and few new cases have been reported.

While Dokimas may have a point, it seems to escape his notice that a similar number of more current cases (StopBaptistPredators.org & Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse Cases a Year) have been reported among n-C clergy, and that there is documentation that the numbers are far higher among educators and far more covered up.

Also, statistics have proved that most such cases involve married men and that celibacy has nothing at all to do with it which also indicates that those who even infer that there might be a connection do so out of an inaccurate bias.

 

[Dokimas]

Note also that most of those are 20+ years old and few new cases have been reported.

While Dokimas may have a point, it seems to escape his notice that a similar number of more current cases (StopBaptistPredators.org & Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse Cases a Year) have been reported among n-C clergy, and that there is documentation that the numbers are far higher among educators and far more covered up.

Also, statistics have proved that most such cases involve married men and that celibacy has nothing at all to do with it which also indicates that those who even infer that there might be a connection do so out of an inaccurate bias.

FYI, it has not escaped my notice. I have been apart of dealing with sexual abuse in a church I was part of. I understand the hurts. The difference is that our church never said it was the One True Church founded by Jesus. We always understood we were part of His church but NOT the only part with all the correct answers as the CC must teach because many here tell the rest of us it’s the only church with all the correct answers.

 

[wanner47]

FYI, it has not escaped my notice. I have been apart of dealing with sexual abuse in a church I was part of. I understand the hurts. The difference is that our church never said it was the One True Church founded by Jesus. We always understood we were part of His church but NOT the only part with all the correct answers as the CC must teach because many here tell the rest of us it’s the only church with all the correct answers.

If your Church isn’t the One True Church, them why belong to it?

Also, following your logic, Christianity is false because of Judas.
If Jesus was the one true God, your logic goes, Judas never would have betrayed Him.

 

[Dokimas]

If your Church isn’t the One True Church, them why belong to it?

Also, following your logic, Christianity is false because of Judas.
If Jesus was the one true God, your logic goes, Judas never would have betrayed Him.

It’s members of churches that know Jesus as Savior that are part of the One True Church of Jesus. It’s not a church group. Jesus’ church is people not an organization.​

His church does have leaders and sometimes they err in understanding and in practices (meaning sinning).​

I’m not following your logic about my lack of logic. Could you put it all together for me please?

 

[Sir_Knight]

The difference is that our church never said it was the One True Church founded by Jesus.

If it isn’t part of the Catholic faith, then it isn’t.

We always understood we were part of His church but NOT the only part with all the correct answers as the CC must teach because many here tell the rest of us it’s the only church with all the correct answers.

It is.

 

[Black_Knight]

FYI, it has not escaped my notice. I have been apart of dealing with sexual abuse in a church I was part of. I understand the hurts. The difference is that our church never said it was the One True Church founded by Jesus. We always understood we were part of His church but NOT the only part with all the correct answers as the CC must teach because many here tell the rest of us it’s the only church with all the correct answers.

Then this discussion is irrelevant, since the issue is celibacy and the facts point out that it is not a factor in the problem.

Just for instance…was/were the case(s) you dealt with involving a celibate?

 

[Dokimas]

If it isn’t part of the Catholic faith, then it isn’t.

It is.

Thank you for your opinions which I respectfully disagree with.

 

[wanner47]

It’s members of churches that know Jesus as Savior that are part of the One True Church of Jesus. It’s not a church group. Jesus’ church is people not an organization.​

His church does have leaders and sometimes they err in understanding and in practices (meaning sinning).​

I’m not following your logic about my lack of logic. Could you put it all together for me please?

How can Jesus’ one true church, as you describe it, have so many conflicting doctrines? For example – my original church, the ELCA, teaches that abortion, women’s ordination, and homosexual acts are all acceptable, even laudable. The Catholic Church teaches all these things are gravely sinful. If both the ELCA and the CC are part of the One True Church, since all have believers in Jesus, which set of teachings should a Chrisian follow?S/he can’t follow both.

As to your logic, you seem to be saying that since the CC has abuse scandals, it can’t be the One True Church. As I’ve pointed out, that would mean Christianity is false because the 12 Apostles had scandals of their own – Judas’ betrayal, for one. So your logic doesn’t hold.

 

[VetA]

Sorry, didn’t mean to impune your dignity. I can be a little leery of walking into a mouse trap. I know this can be a sensitive subject for Catholics. Thanks for the links.

i didnt know if my reputation preceded me on the forums i have been described as “uncharitable” and the like, i suppose i am sort of a hothead.

 

[VetA]

Are you sure you want to get into numbers? Seems your 300 is for one yr. What if one of those 300 were your child? How much money has it cost the CC?

what about the non-denomination minister in Louisiana that raped (raped not touched but raped) little girls(pre-pubescent unlike most of the cases with the catholic clergy, they molested pubescent males ie ephebophlia) … dont act like its an exclusively catholic problem its a problem with everyone (even schools) every facet of life attracts the pieces of scum

 

[Sir_Knight]

Thank you for your opinions which I respectfully disagree with.

it is not an opinion. It is a fact. Jesus established ONE Church – not many Churches. There is only one truth – not many truths. Only ONE Church can trace it’s origins back to the time of Christ – the Catholic Church and since Christ said that His Church would exist for all generations and since only the Catholic Church qualifies – what is the logical conclusion?

 

[SonCatcher]

the price they pay for it seems very high to me.

[BIBLEDRB]Luke 14:28-33[/BIBLEDRB]

Yes, the price is high. Isn’t it worth it, though?

 

[Dokimas]

How can Jesus’ one true church, as you describe it, have so many conflicting doctrines? For example – my original church, the ELCA, teaches that abortion, women’s ordination, and homosexual acts are all acceptable, even laudable. The Catholic Church teaches all these things are gravely sinful. If both the ELCA and the CC are part of the One True Church, since all have believers in Jesus, which set of teachings should a Chrisian follow?S/he can’t follow both.

Jesus knew what He was doing when He entrusted His church to the His followers. He also knew they’d not be perfect or understand Him perfectly. He is not bothered by our humanity. He loves to show us His mercy and grace. That’s what a loving God does to His much less than perfect children.

As to your logic, you seem to be saying that since the CC has abuse scandals, it can’t be the One True Church. As I’ve pointed out, that would mean Christianity is false because the 12 Apostles had scandals of their own – Judas’ betrayal, for one. So your logic doesn’t hold.

You are very wrong. The CC not being the One True Church has nothing to do with the abuse from within it. However, if the CC keeps making claims about itself, it better do a much better job dealing with the sin of some of its leaders if it wants to be a better witness to a lost and dieing world full of humans for whom Jesus died.

 

[Dokimas]

what about the non-denomination minister in Louisiana that raped (raped not touched but raped) little girls(pre-pubescent unlike most of the cases with the catholic clergy, they molested pubescent males ie ephebophlia) … dont act like its an exclusively catholic problem its a problem with everyone (even schools) every facet of life attracts the pieces of scum

Are you telling me that the church from LA calls itself the One True Church founded by Jesus? If so, my comments would be the same to them.​

Sin is sin. I don’t know the story you have mentioned. If you are correct, I hope that man gets puts in jail for a long time and God help him in jail. They are not kind to men who sexually abuse children.

At what point did I ‘act’ as if sex sin of leaders is only within the CC? If you haven’t noticed, this is a catholic web site with catholic forums and this thread is about the practice of the CC. Which means it is not about the church in LA.

 

[Dokimas]

it is not an opinion. It is a fact. Jesus established ONE Church – not many Churches. There is only one truth – not many truths. Only ONE Church can trace it’s origins back to the time of Christ – the Catholic Church and since Christ said that His Church would exist for all generations and since only the Catholic Church qualifies – what is the logical conclusion?

I agree that Jesus established One Church and it’s FAR bigger than members of the CC. The rest is your opinion which is no more or less possible than mine. Or should I say the correct opinion is 100% possibly God’s Truth which we won’t fully understand till Heaven.

 

[wanner47]

Jesus knew what He was doing when He entrusted His church to the His followers. He also knew they’d not be perfect or understand Him perfectly. He is not bothered by our humanity. He loves to show us His mercy and grace. That’s what a loving God does to His much less than perfect children.

Are you saying that sin doesn’t matter to God?

You are very wrong. The CC not being the One True Church has nothing to do with the abuse from within it. However, if the CC keeps making claims about itself, it better do a much better job dealing with the sin of some of its leaders if it wants to be a better witness to a lost and dieing world full of humans for whom Jesus died.

Agreed that all Christians should strive to be perfect like our Father in Heaven is perfect. However, it has no bearing on whether or not the CC has the fullness of Truth. All denominations are run by fallible humans who sin. Jesus, when speaking of the Pharisees who occupied the Chair of Moses, said, “Do as they teach, not as they do.” He was establishing the fact that His Church, though run by fallible humans, would be protected from teaching error despite the sins of its members.

 

[Sir_Knight]

I agree that Jesus established One Church and it’s FAR bigger than members of the CC.

And you’ve come to this conclusion how?

The rest is your opinion which is no more or less possible than mine.

It is fact. The NT goes into great detail outlining the hierarchical and and authoritative structure of the Church and that this authority is passed on via the laying on of hands. Anyone who does not receive this authority via the laying on of hands, can not claim to be a valid church leader and anyone who does not subject themselves to those church leaders can not claim to be members of that Church.

 

[Dokimas]

Are you saying that sin doesn’t matter to God?

Nope. Sin in aweful.

 

[Texasgringo70]

i didnt know if my reputation preceded me on the forums i have been described as “uncharitable” and the like, i suppose i am sort of a hothead.

No, I haven’t had the pleasure. My opinion is the fruit of my observations. I know who’s house I am in. and I know certain topics can raise the stakes. Thanks for giving me a chance.