SPLIT: From Fatima...Images & the Salvation of Catholics

[Eden]

ok sounds good
but how can an infant believe in christ if he can’t speak
mark 16:16

Mark 16:16 - Jesus says to the crowd, “He who believes and is baptized will be saved.” But in reference to the same people, Jesus immediately follows with “He who does not believe will be condemned.” This demonstrates that one can be baptized and still not be a believer. This disproves the Protestant argument that one must be a believer to be baptized. There is nothing in the Bible about a “believer’s baptism.”

 

[water]

For your lack of knowledge about Catholic, here come an article for you to ‘meditate’ on.

catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

bump!

no need to explain about Infant Baptism, we’ve been doing it for years. Why don’t you read it yourself?

 

[Randy_Carson]

Newbie1234

No one said our Blessed Mother healed anyone. What was said was there have been cures at Lourdes. Mary appeared to Bernadette and upon digging where she was told water flowed. There have been 67 documented cures coming from Our Lord because He had His Mother appear to Bernadette. Now what would you call this? To me they are mircles worked through Our Blessed Mother by Her Son.

Think about it. Think about what Mother Theresa of Calcutta has done for the people of the world. Think of the number of rosaries she has said and the number of times her prayers have been answered by Our Lord.

Have a good night.

Because of His Passion these things have happened.
Serene

Serene-

Mary saw the need of the couple being married in Cana, and she took the matter to Jesus. He appeared to rebuff her initially (“Woman, why do you involve me.”), but he changed the water into wine because of her intercession.

She never has stopped interceding for others with her son, has she?

Note to Newbie1234: that’s in John 2 if you want to double-check.

 

[newbie1234]

Newbie1234

No one said our Blessed Mother healed anyone. What was said was there have been cures at Lourdes. Mary appeared to Bernadette and upon digging where she was told water flowed. There have been 67 documented cures coming from Our Lord because He had His Mother appear to Bernadette. Now what would you call this? To me they are mircles worked through Our Blessed Mother by Her Son.

Think about it. Think about what Mother Theresa of Calcutta has done for the people of the world. Think of the number of rosaries she has said and the number of times her prayers have been answered by Our Lord.

Have a good night.

Because of His Passion these things have happened.
Serene

check out the dvd Messsages from Heaven. then tell me about who is curing what.

 

[Eden]

I’m surprised to see you continuing to post without skipping a beat, newbie. You seem to have been under the impression that the Bible fell from the sky. When presented with the true historical stages of the compiliation of the Canon, you did not take the time to read the links. If you are a serious student of the Word of God, I don’t see how you can lightly skip over the fact that you are coming to us with a major void in your Bible.

Here is a study sheet you can print out and share with your Bible study group next time. You can share with them just how much of they are missing:

scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html

 

[newbie1234]

For your lack of knowledge about Catholic, here come an article for you to ‘meditate’ on.

catholic.com/library/Infant_Baptism.asp

Please to all the people copying apologetic sites. There is no way I will have time to read them all.
If you want to teach me something please find scriptural references that support your position and I will look at them.

Copying a complete page from some apologist website is a waste of time.

 

[Eden]

check out the dvd Messsages from Heaven. then tell me about who is curing what.

Excuse me for saying so, but you have mentioned this DVD so many times, I can’t help but start to feel that you are putting this DVD on the same level as the Word of God. Do you believe “Messages from Heaven” is an infallible testimony from the mouth of God? I believe it’s just a propaganda piece put together by a 20th century sect.

 

[newbie1234]

I’m surprised to see you continuing to post without skipping a beat, newbie. You seem to have been under the impression that the Bible fell from the sky. When presented with the true historical stages of the compiliation of the Canon, you did not take the time to read the links. If you are a serious student of the Word of God, I don’t see how you can lightly skip over the fact that you are coming to us with a major void in your Bible.

Here is a study sheet you can print out and share with your Bible study group next time. You can share with them just how much of they are missing:

scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html

So is there anything that you know of personally offhand?

 

[newbie1234]

Excuse me for saying so, but you have mentioned this DVD so many times, I can help but start to feel that you are putting this DVD on the same level as the Word of God. Do you believe “Messages from Heaven” is an infallible testimony from the mouth of God? I believe it’s just a propaganda piece put together by a 20th century sect.

The dvd uses the word of God to prove that the apparition of mary appearing all over the world are from satan

 

[Randy_Carson]

You seem like a reasonably intelligent person.
If you read mark16:16 could you answer the question of whether an infant could understand the concept of sin and the need for a savior?
I don’t need my pastor to interpret that.
An infant cannot understand the concept of sin so there is no need to baptise an infant. It doesn’yt matter what the lutherans are doing. Can’t you come to this resonable conclusion on your own?

Newbie1234-

You seem like a reasonably intelligent person, also. And I’m sure that the pastor at your fellowship is a reasonably intelligent person as is the Lutheran pastor.

Wouldn’t it be somewhat “reasonable” to assume that all of us have studied the word of God in order to follow Paul’s exhortation to “Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.”?

Your pastor and the Lutheran pastor - both of whom hold to the doctrine of sola scriptura - come to opposite conclusions about the need for infant baptism. Now, if only one of them can be correctly handling the word of truth, that logically means that one of the is not correctly handling the word of truth. Yet they both “study to shew themselves” to be “approved workmen” before God.

Are you saying that one of these men is not a man of God?

 

[LilyM]

Please to all the people copying apologetic sites. There is no way I will have time to read them all.
If you want to teach me something please find scriptural references that support your position and I will look at them.

Copying a complete page from some apologist website is a waste of time.

And yet you have more than enough time to put up post after post after post here, revealing total ignorance of the Catholic faith and the scripture upon which we base our practices, and not much better understanding of Scripture itself!!! Which is a worse waste of everyone’s time.

If you are genuinely interested in arguing against the Catholic position than at least do us the courtesy of reading the links in order to understand what the Catholic position truly is BEFORE trashing us!

 

[Eden]

So is there anything that you know of personally offhand?

I know that you are unwilling to read the list of 300 places in which the New Testament quotes the Deuterocanonicals which I linked to because it does not support your position that the non-denominational movement is legitimate.

 

[newbie1234]

Serene-

Mary saw the need of the couple being married in Cana, and she took the matter to Jesus. He appeared to rebuff her initially (“Woman, why do you involve me.”), but he changed the water into wine because of her intercession.

She never has stopped interceding for others with her son, has she?

Note to Newbie1234: that’s in John 2 if you want to double-check.

I am well aware of His first miracle.
Interest to note what He says about His mother in Matt12:46-50. He didn’t do any miracles then did He?

 

[Eden]

The dvd uses the word of God to prove that the apparition of mary appearing all over the world are from satan

The DVD is not the Word of God. It is the production of men. Quoting from the Word of God does not make the DVD equivalent to the Word of God. It sounds like you believe that it does.

 

[Eden]

I am well aware of His first miracle.
Interest to note what He says about His mother in Matt12:46-50. He didn’t do any miracles then did He?

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - when Jesus asks, “Who are my mother, and sisters and brothers?,” some Protestants argue that Jesus is rebuking Mary in order to denigrate her. To the contrary, when Jesus’ comments are read in light of Luke 8:5-15 and the parable of the sower which Jesus taught right before His question, Jesus is actually implying that Mary has already received the word as the sower of good ground and is bearing fruit. Jesus is teaching that others must, like Mary, also receive the word and obey it.

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - Jesus’ question about “who are my mother, and sisters and brothers” was also made in reference to Psalm 69:8-9. Jesus the Prophet was answering the psalmist’s prophecy that those closest to Him would betray Him at His passion. Jesus is emphasizing the spiritual family’s importance over the biological family, and the importance of being faithful to Him. While many were unfaithful to Jesus, Mary remained faithful to Him, even to the point of standing at the foot of the Cross.

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - finally, to argue that Jesus rebuked Mary is to argue that Jesus violated the Torah, here, the 4th commandment. This argument is blasphemous because it essentially says that God committed sin by dishonoring His Mother.

 

[newbie1234]

And yet you have more than enough time to put up post after post after post here, revealing total ignorance of the Catholic faith and the scripture upon which we base our practices, and not much better understanding of Scripture itself!!! Which is a worse waste of everyone’s time.

If you are genuinely interested in arguing against the Catholic position than at least do us the courtesy of reading the links in order to understand what the Catholic position truly is BEFORE trashing us!

When did I trash you?
If I did I’m sorry.
It is pretty tough answering 5 different people at the same time, many with links to all different sites. All I want to use is the Bible.I ask for scriptural references to support your position. I don’t think I’m asking too much.

 

[newbie1234]

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - when Jesus asks, “Who are my mother, and sisters and brothers?,” some Protestants argue that Jesus is rebuking Mary in order to denigrate her. To the contrary, when Jesus’ comments are read in light of Luke 8:5-15 and the parable of the sower which Jesus taught right before His question, Jesus is actually implying that Mary has already received the word as the sower of good ground and is bearing fruit. Jesus is teaching that others must, like Mary, also receive the word and obey it.

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - Jesus’ question about “who are my mother, and sisters and brothers” was also made in reference to Psalm 69:8-9. Jesus the Prophet was answering the psalmist’s prophecy that those closest to Him would betray Him at His passion. Jesus is emphasizing the spiritual family’s importance over the biological family, and the importance of being faithful to Him. While many were unfaithful to Jesus, Mary remained faithful to Him, even to the point of standing at the foot of the Cross.

Matt. 12:48; Mark 3:33; Luke 8:21 - finally, to argue that Jesus rebuked Mary is to argue that Jesus violated the Torah, here, the 4th commandment. This argument is blasphemous because it essentially says that God committed sin by dishonoring His Mother.

I never said He rebuked anybody.

 

[water]

When did I trash you?
If I did I’m sorry.
It is pretty tough answering 5 different people at the same time, many with links to all different sites. All I want to use is the Bible.I ask for scriptural references to support your position. I don’t think I’m asking too much.

It is basically you come here - Unprepared, showing lack of knowledge about Catholic, bad assumptions after assumptions - yet you are acting as if you do know. When people give your resources to read - not just today but ever since you posted here - you ignore it.

Is this how you come about evangelize?

 

[Randy_Carson]

What does the the bible actually mean in regards to the trinity doctrine?

What exactly are you looking for?

There are biblical references to the three persons of the Godhead. Several times in the New Testament we see all three persons mentioned together. Two of the most popular Trinity supporting passages are:

Matthew 5
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him.
17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Matthew 28
19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

Here is how the historic Christian leaders viewed this truth:
110 AD. Ignatius of Antioch wrote,
“Wherefore also the Lord, when He sent forth the apostles to make disciples of all nations, commanded them to “baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,” not unto one [person] having three names, nor into three [persons] who became incarnate, but into three possessed of equal honour.” (Letter to the Philadelphians, 2)
In Matthew 5 we see the Father, Son and Holy Spirit together and distinct. Matthew 28 commands us to make disciples and baptize them in the name of the Triune God. In Titus we are given the same picture that we have in Matthew. Look at Titus 3:
4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared,
5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,
6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,

The kindness and love of God appeared, we are renewed by the Holy Spirit who is poured out on us through Jesus Christ.

Oops! There was an Early Church Father in there. But that’s the point…the Church developed its understanding of the Trinity over time. The Bible only gives us the basis for the doctrine. Frankly, I think you’d have a hard time coming up with “one God, three persons” and “the Spirit proceeding from the Father and the Son” apart from the core theology given to you by the Catholic Church.

 

[Mannyfit75]

The dvd uses the word of God to prove that the apparition of mary appearing all over the world are from satan

Does does sound like the Work of Satan?

“O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most need of your mercy.” It’s from that Fatima message.