SPLIT: Homosexuality immoral rather than evil?

[Seeker1961]

Monster,

You don’t like me. I understand. I don’t like your admission of your behavior. You understand. Trip? Argue? Always? I appreciate your following my posts. Realize that you want me to accept that I don’t control your behavior…accept that you do not control mine. Ok:thumbsup:

I would only stop to ask, have you led many people to Christ by speaking to them this way?

I was blessed to have people in my life who understood that I was not my actions and that despite those actions I was still worth loving in the eyes of God. I was lucky enough to meet people who showed me His love and led me to understand it. Through the understanding of that love, I was led to change my life.

What is more important-registering your disapproval or leading someone to the Lord so He can change their life?

 

[CopticChristian]

9522666]

I would only stop to ask, have you led many people to Christ by speaking to them this way?

I was blessed to have people in my life who understood that I was not my actions and that despite those actions I was still worth loving in the eyes of God. I was lucky enough to meet people who showed me His love and led me to understand it. Through the understanding of that love, I was led to change my life.

**What is more important-registering your disapproval or leading someone to the Lord so He can change their life?/**QUOTE]

Seeker,

Ask Paul…

1Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.

He registered lots of disaproval and love…:tsktsk::hug1:

 

[Seeker1961]

Respectfully I would remind you that Paul’s letters were written to established Christian communities-people who already had made a commitment to Christ in response to his love for them. My suspicion is that in his evangelism to people who had not done so might have been a little different.

 

[pnewton]

My suspicion is that in his evangelism to people who had not done so might have been a little different.

Now that is a speculative argument. In any case, I think it telling to remember the motive of the OP in starting this thread. He wanted to find Catholic who disagree with Catholic teaching. That in itself should be a clue that there is no good response. It is the guiding of the Holy Spirit through the one Church that has been established that keeps us from floundering like so many other churches (Anglican, in this case) against error and sin.

That is the poin the OP misses. God did not change his mind about homosexuality. Any Christian, or denomination that tries to re-make God in his image departs to that degree from the true God. Far better to recognize our sin, or our disposition to sin, and stop trying to excuse it.

 

[Seeker1961]

Now that is a speculative argument. In any case, I think it telling to remember the motive of the OP in starting this thread. He wanted to find Catholic who disagree with Catholic teaching. That in itself should be a clue that there is no good response. It is the guiding of the Holy Spirit through the one Church that has been established that keeps us from floundering like so many other churches (Anglican, in this case) against error and sin.

That is the poin the OP misses. God did not change his mind about homosexuality. Any Christian, or denomination that tries to re-make God in his image departs to that degree from the true God. Far better to recognize our sin, or our disposition to sin, and stop trying to excuse it.

I’m not saying that Paul would have never gotten around to it-my suggestion was merely made as someone who was led back to the Church. I was not led back by the kind of thing I’m reading here. That approach kept me AWAY for years. Since the discussion was with someone who was not a part of the Church, I think it matters how we approach them.

I can tell you without hesitation that at first there was no way I believed I could “follow the rules” of Catholicism-but once I grew in understanding of God’s love for me, I WANTED to follow them. God’s grace and my understanding of it LED to the change in my life.

When it comes to homosexuality I think the approach most of us take is backwards. We’re trying to get people to change their lives before they understand the reason or receive the grace that will give them the power to do it. I don’t find that approach used with anything other issue.

 

[pnewton]

When it comes to homosexuality I think the approach most of us take is backwards. We’re trying to get people to change their lives before they understand the reason or receive the grace that will give them the power to do it. I don’t find that approach used with anything other issue.

That is a very valid point, as it applies to all sin. That being said, this assumes that we never waiver that homosexuality is sin.

 

[Seeker1961]

That is a very valid point, as it applies to all sin. That being said, this assumes that we never waiver that homosexuality is sin.

Yes, yes…homosexual behavior is a sin. I think we have beaten that drum loudly. And that is my point!!! Every encounter with a gay person does NOT have to be a relentless hammering of the sinfulness of homosexual behavior!

Would you do that to a young woman who had had an abortion? Or would you show her the compassion and love of Jesus? Unless she lives in a cave, she already knows how the Church feels about abortion.

Gay people know the Church views their behavior as sinful. What many of them don’t know is that God loves them. I was lucky, I had Priests, Sisters and other good Catholics who didn’t view the sinful behavior as the single most important part of me. They saw me as a person that God loved. Without them, I would still be “in the life”.

At the end of the day, which do you think is more important-to be the best communicator of the sinfulness of homosexual behavior or to be the best communicator of the love of Jesus?

 

[Jane_of_Arc]

Actually,** acting** upon homosexual desires is against the Natural Law. We can KNOW, without being taught, without reading scripture (although Scripture does condemn it, too), without the Pope declaring it a serious sin…that it is wrong,an abuse of the sexual organs. The parts don’t fit.God gave us our sexual organs primarily to propagate the human race & secondarily to bring** love & unity** to married couples as they face the challenges of maintaining a Catholic family, earning enough money to educate them etc., in this secular society.

I’ve been married (to the same man) for 53 yrs. & I still cannot explain the peace, the banishing of “aloneness” that comes when a married couple unite physically.

Genesis 2:22-24
"Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called 'woman, ’ for she was taken out of man.” For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh…

 

[CopticChristian]

Respectfully I would remind you that Paul’s letters were written to established Christian communities-people who already had made a commitment to Christ in response to his love for them. My suspicion is that in his evangelism to people who had not done so might have been a little different.

Seeker,

Respectfully having reminded me that Paul’s letters were written to established Christian communities-people who already made a commitment to Christ in response to his love for them…your suspicion has no bearing in reality…

Paul wrot to Rome admonishing that established Christian community about a problem, ie those that were trying to impose circumcision and entrance into the old Covenant as a requirement for Christian initiation as opposed to Baptism…

Paul wrote to Corinth and as you recall…I don’t think I have to bring up the sordid details of those he admonished there as well…

You have read these have you not?

 

[Seeker1961]

Seeker,

Respectfully having reminded me that Paul’s letters were written to established Christian communities-people who already made a commitment to Christ in response to his love for them…your suspicion has no bearing in reality…

Paul wrot to Rome admonishing that established Christian community about a problem, ie those that were trying to impose circumcision and entrance into the old Covenant as a requirement for Christian initiation as opposed to Baptism…

Paul wrote to Corinth and as you recall…I don’t think I have to bring up the sordid details of those he admonished there as well…

You have read these have you not?

Ah, so you agree that Paul was NOT writing to new converts but to established Christian communities. So, you are aware that context does have something to do with the conversation.

And as I said up thread-what is the REAL goal? What matters most?