SPLIT: Hour fast before communion at retreats?

[Jahi]

I just came back from a women’s Cursillo retreat and I’m absolutely appalled today.

While lining up to go into Mass, the leadership was urging the candidates to stuff their faces with donuts and coffee so there wouldn’t be a lot of leftovers.

AS they were getting read to walk into the sanctuary.

WHen I said something, I was treated like a leaper.

My understanding was that the fast is supposed to be an hour BEFORE Mass but I’m wrong. So how do you gage when communion will be? It doesn’t seem like much of a fast if you stop eating 10-15 minutes before Mass.

 

[Jahi]

PS… we were also having morning prayers in the sanctuary with Cursillo with the tabernacle and the Blessed Eucharist right there next to the altar and suddenly a loud GONG went off, scaring us, and a bunch of the leaders, including Protestants, ran up to the altar, standing in front of, behind and next to it, completely blocking the Tabernacle, started singing silly, ridiculous songs about chickens, rosters and colors of the rainbow.

I was so appalled at the disrespect for Our Lord in the Tabernacle that I almost threw up. I turned around and asked the priest if the Blessed Eucharist was in the Tabernacle right then and he said, Yes, giving me a “why are you upset don’t cause any trouble” look.

Am I nuts or is this appalling?

 

[laszlo]

When I received the first communion the fast for the morning (before 12PM masses) was from midnight, no food, no water except necessary medicine. As an indult for the Sunday afternoon Mass only 3 hours was required, counting backward from the beginning of the Holy Mass.

This rule (the from midnight) helped the required reverence toward the body of our Lord.

The recent 1 out before the communion means only that one does not eat or drink on the way to the Mass or during the Mass. I believe this was a mistake, and one of the reasons to diminish the required reverence. Jesus himself will not be changed by our fasting, but our attitude will.

 

[Joan_M]

What about gum or breath mints. I’ve heard that these too should be included in the fast since you can “derrive nutrition” from them. However, I’m embarrassed to say that I suffer from bad breath **(I’ve even had the dentist check this out and my teeth and gums are fine). **Most of the time bad breath has nothing whatever to do with teeth or gums. It has to do with the rest of your digestive system - stomach and intestines.

I spit out my gum before going into Mass. So should I not chew gum or use mints and not open my mouth to say the prayers and sing or do chew it, and take a chance in breaking a fast but sparing the person next to me an hour of tourture? Usually bad breath doesn’t affect others unless you are actually breathing on them - speaking directly to them so that your exhaled breath comes close to their nose and mouth. this doesn’t usually happen at Mass - except, perhaps, at the sign of peace.

Does this fall into any medical condition which might be an exception like drinking water to take medicine?

And, no, I do not believe this qualifies as a medical condition that exempts from the fast. Exceptions are directed at those who would feel faint, or otherwise become ill, if they didn’t eat.

 

[paperwight66]

As regards to whether someone’s bad breath impinges on others, it really depends on how sensitive their sense of smell is. Believe me, I don’t need someone’s head close to mine to catch a whiff of bad breath, particularly if they are singing hymns.

 

[japhy]

While lining up to go into Mass, the leadership was urging the candidates to stuff their faces with donuts and coffee so there wouldn’t be a lot of leftovers.

Were those “leaders” Catholic or Protestant?

WHen I said something, I was treated like a leaper.

That’s quite unfortunate.

It doesn’t seem like much of a fast if you stop eating 10-15 minutes before Mass.

No, quite frankly, it’s not.

suddenly a loud GONG went off, scaring us, and a bunch of the leaders, including Protestants, ran up to the altar, standing in front of, behind and next to it, completely blocking the Tabernacle, started singing silly, ridiculous songs about chickens, rosters and colors of the rainbow.

Sigh.

Am I nuts or is this appalling?

It is quite appalling.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

aaa

 

[JimR-OCDS]

PS… we were also having morning prayers in the sanctuary with Cursillo with the tabernacle and the Blessed Eucharist right there next to the altar and suddenly a loud GONG went off, scaring us, and a bunch of the leaders, including Protestants, ran up to the altar, standing in front of, behind and next to it, completely blocking the Tabernacle, started singing silly, ridiculous songs about chickens, rosters and colors of the rainbow.

I was so appalled at the disrespect for Our Lord in the Tabernacle that I almost threw up. I turned around and asked the priest if the Blessed Eucharist was in the Tabernacle right then and he said, Yes, giving me a “why are you upset don’t cause any trouble” look.

Am I nuts or is this appalling?

Who ran this retreat?

Was it at a Catholic Retreat Center or such?

Jim

 

[Jahi]

Were those “leaders” Catholic or Protestant?

They were Catholic leaders.

The Cursillo leaders here support the Protestant version which is called Tres Dias. They work on the Protestant retreat. And a few Protestants work on the Catholic Cursillo retreat, which I find very troubling.

But the leaders shoving donuts in their faces and telling everyone else to do the same as we were lining up for Mass were Catholics.

 

[Jahi]

Who ran this retreat?

Was it at a Catholic Retreat Center or such?

Jim

I am in the Republic of Korea. I’m an Army wife and the Catholic Coordinator/Religious Education Coordinator for our Army parish. It was called the Religious Retreat Center and is a United States Forces-Korea joint location, owned by both the US and Korean military.

It is used for functions other than Catholic.

 

[Jahi]

Because I questioned the Catholic leadership about eating donuts and coffee as we were preparing to enter Mass, I was told “People are in different places, just try to have joy and don’t judge.”

Then later a leader hugged me and whispered in my ear, “Open your heart and your mind.”

The worst part is that the priest, whom I work for, also eats and drinks regularly just before Mass. He brings food and coffee into my office at 0845 and Mass starts at 0900. So by 0855 he’s eating and drinking and reading Stars and Stripes.

At the retreat, he was eating fruit in his cassock and alb and walked right into the sanctuary to celebrate Mass.

I am finding it hard to work under these circumstances anymore.

 

[LilyM]

No, quite frankly, it’s not.

Whatever you may think of it, we ARE permitted to eat up to an hour before COMMUNION, and it’s not for you to judge the piety or usefulness of practices that the Church permits.

Most Sunday Masses are at least 45 minutes, most are somewhat longer. So eating up to 15 minutes before Mass starts is perfectly acceptable, as is eating right up until the time Mass starts if it goes longer than an hour. Unless Mass was shorter than 45 minutes, or an hour in the case of those eating just before it started, you had absolutely no business being ‘appalled’ at anyone for adhering to the permitted fast and not going beyond it. For all you know their piety and mortifications and sacrifices may exceed yours in countless other ways, after all.

Fasting longer is entirely optional. I tend at the very least to stop eating an hour before Mass starts, simply because it’s not always possible to time to the minute when one will be receiving Communion, and so it’s easier to eliminate the guesswork altogether. But I wouldn’t dream of criticising anyone who was sticking to the fast required by Canon Law, even if they didn’t show any desire to go beyond.

 

[paperwight66]

Whatever you may think of it, we ARE permitted to eat up to an hour before COMMUNION, and it’s not for you to judge the piety or usefulness of practices that the Church permits.
… For all you know their piety and mortifications and sacrifices may exceed yours in countless other ways, after all.

.

Well said, LilyM.

The point of the fast is not mortification as such, because, as has been pointed out, fasting for an hour is easy for a person in good health.

But rather, the point is to remind us what we are about to do, to help us bear in mind how stupendous the Gift is, and to jog our memories into preparing ourselves. It’s a discipline that’s been thought up by a committee somewhere, and can be changed tomorrow. The limit could just have easily been set at 56 minutes or 34 or 47 or any other number. My guess is that an hour was fixed on as it’s easy to check on the clock.

To fret over how many minutes it has been exactly, to bar onself from receiving because a cup of tea has been taken with a sick neighbour to keep her company before the clock was looked at… surely that shows a great misunderstanding of what matters?

 

[japhy]

it’s not for you to judge the piety or usefulness of practices that the Church permits.

May I have an opinion about it?

ating up to 15 minutes before Mass starts is perfectly acceptable, as is eating right up until the time Mass starts if it goes longer than an hour.

Is it spiritually helpful to eat right up to an hour before Communion? What sort of attitude is fostered by skirting the 60 minute mark with the Eucharistic fast? Should drivers be encouraged to keep only the absolute minimum distance between them and the car ahead of them?

Fasting longer is entirely optional.

And I think it’s far more beneficial than fasting for an hour. Generally speaking – that is, putting aside unexpectedly short Masses – keeping the minimum fast required on Sundays is like being required to breath every few seconds: it’s hard to miss. I would expect in most cases that it means simply not eating as you’re heading out the door.

I tend at the very least to stop eating an hour before Mass starts, simply because it’s not always possible to time to the minute when one will be receiving Communion, and so it’s easier to eliminate the guesswork altogether.

But that’s not the only reason you fast an hour before Mass, “to eliminate the guesswork”, is it?

The point of the fast is not mortification as such, because, as has been pointed out, fasting for an hour is easy for a person in good health.

Why is it not mortification “as such”? Perhaps the mortification aspect of the Eucharistic fast has been lost due to the brevity of the fast, and maybe, just maybe, the mortification aspect was not simply a side-effect of a longer fasting period. Maybe it was a significant part of the fast.

the point is to remind us what we are about to do, to help us bear in mind how stupendous the Gift is, and to jog our memories into preparing ourselves.

Does it have that effect? Does the average Catholic know about the fast, and does it help them ponder Who it is they will be receiving, and thereby prepare themselves? Maybe a Pew Forum poll is in order…

I will put more comments about the Eucharistic fast in a second comment.

 

[japhy]

I’m numbering these statements for others’ convenience should they wish to address these quotes in the thread.

1> Immensae Caritatis (1973), 3: “As for food and drink serving as nourishment, that tradition must be preserved according to which the Eucharist was to be taken ‘before all food,’ as Tertullian says, as a sign of the excellence of the sacramental food.”

2> “Eucharistic Fasting: Preparation and Penance” (1995), Fr. William Saunders: “Moreover, the fast before receiving Holy Communion creates a physical hunger and thirst for the Lord, which in turn augments the spiritual hunger and thirst we ought to have. In the Old Testament, fasting prepared individuals to receive the action of God and to be placed in His presence. … Therefore, the Eucharistic fast assists us in preparing to receive Holy Communion wholly—body and soul. This physical mortification strengthens our spiritual focus on the Lord, so that we may humbly encounter the divine Savior who offers Himself to us.”

3> Catechism (1994) #1387: “To prepare for worthy reception of this sacrament, the faithful should observe the fast required in their Church.”

4> “Gather Faithfully Together” (1997), Cardinal Mahony: “Find just one steady practice that makes you stretch toward the Reign of God we glimpse at Mass: It might be …] fasting from food or distractions and so becoming thoroughly hungry for God’s Word and the Eucharistic banquet.”

5> “The Communion Fast: A Reconsideration” (2007), Dr. Edward Peters, JCD: “First, it is an exercise in rank legalism to consider abstention from food and drink for an hour as any kind of ‘fast,’ let alone as one intended to help prepare for the inestimable event that is the reception of the Eucharist. Even a moderate meal cannot be digested in one hour; in normal cases hunger does not set in for several hours after eating. … First, regardless of how a one-hour ‘fast’ is calculated, such a brief period is physically insufficient to place a normal person into anything like a ‘fasting’ state. If, as a millennium and a half suggest, some significant level of corporal fasting is conducive to the worthy reception of the Eucharist, it must be frankly admitted that such a state cannot be accomplished in one hour’s time. … Third, focusing the eucharistic fast on the reception of communion, rather than on the start of Mass wherein the real and substantial presence of the Lord will be confected, diminishes appreciation of the liturgy of the Word as a real encounter with Christ important in its own right. The faithful are led to overlook the proclamation of the Word as being something worthy of preparation, too, and focuses them only on communion. The example of Christ teaching hungry people before feeding them is lost (Mk 6:34-42).”

I especially like #5’s emphasis on how there are two “tables” encountered in the Mass: the table of the Word and the table of the Eucharist. The English translation of Sacrosanctum Concilium calls for “richer fare [to] be provided for the faithful at the table of God’s word.” (SC 53) We are fed by the Word in two ways at Mass; should we not fast in preparation for the whole Mass, then, and not just reception of Holy Communion?

Maybe we should fasting from reading and speaking for an hour before hearing the Scriptures…

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I am in the Republic of Korea. I’m an Army wife and the Catholic Coordinator/Religious Education Coordinator for our Army parish. It was called the Religious Retreat Center and is a United States Forces-Korea joint location, owned by both the US and Korean military.

It is used for functions other than Catholic.

So its attended by protestants and Catholics and probably why donuts were served before Mass.

Eitherway, a Catholic should know that he/she is to fast 1 hour before receiving Holy Communion.

Personally, I don’t eat after midnight before attending Mass.

Jim

 

[japhy]

So its attended by protestants and Catholics and probably why donuts were served before Mass.

Serving food before Mass is one thing. Trying to get rid of the remaining food right before Mass is another:
"Jahi:

Because I questioned the Catholic leadership about eating donuts and coffee as we were preparing to enter Mass, I was told “People are in different places, just try to have joy and don’t judge.” Then later a leader hugged me and whispered in my ear, “Open your heart and your mind.”

Eitherway, a Catholic should know that he/she is to fast 1 hour before receiving Holy Communion.

But not every Catholic does know that, and it seems like the leadership of the retreat was not interested in educating anyone about it; it sounds like they were actively working in opposition to it, in the name of “joy” and “opening your heart and your mind.”

 

[JimR-OCDS]

japhy;

But not every Catholic does know that, and it seems like the leadership of the retreat was not interested in educating anyone about it; it sounds like they were actively working in opposition to it, in the name of “joy” and “opening your heart and your mind.”

I can’t presume to know what the leadership of the retreat was thinking.

I think its an overreach to suggest that they were actively working in opposition to Church teaching.

Jim

 

[japhy]

I can’t presume to know what the leadership of the retreat was thinking. I think its an overreach to suggest that they were actively working in opposition to Church teaching.

“While lining up to go into Mass, the leadership was urging the candidates to stuff their faces with donuts and coffee so there wouldn’t be a lot of leftovers.”

 

[JimR-OCDS]

“While lining up to go into Mass, the leadership was urging the candidates to stuff their faces with donuts and coffee so there wouldn’t be a lot of leftovers.”

But they probably did so out of forgetfulness or ignorance of Catholic teaching that we are to fast and hour before receiving.

To suggest that they did it with an agenda is an overreach in judgment.

Jim