SPLIT: How can Catholic churches not have kneelers?

[Billy_Buescher]

This is more of a question,

How can a Catholic Church not have kneelers, unless the members are expected to kneel on the floor? This is a first for me also.

Bill

 

[adamhovey1988]

This is more of a question,

How can a Catholic Church not have kneelers, unless the members are expected to kneel on the floor? This is a first for me also.

Bill

Eastern Catholic churches don’t generally have kneelers. I know what you mean though. I was in that same situation when a church was being built and I knelt on the floor

 

[Crusaderbear]

In Richmond Va Diocese, it was a cost cutting measure for new construction/renovations. Supposedly any new churches will go back to having kneelers.

Many younger folks at my church do just kneel on the floor, us old fogeys just sit or stand (not sure I would come back up from a full kneel anymore!)

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

This is more of a question,

How can a Catholic Church not have kneelers, unless the members are expected to kneel on the floor? This is a first for me also.

Bill

For over a thousand years churches didn’t have kneelers and people used to kneel a lot more in mass than we do today.

 

[svid2]

For over a thousand years churches didn’t have kneelers and people used to kneel a lot more in mass than we do today.

Pax Christi!

Yes, and some medieval churches in Europe still have no kneelers. Somewhere I heard that kneelers are a Protestant innovation (thank you!). At Nótre Dame de Chartres I had to kneel on very rough 800-year old stone floors. I “offered it up” and brought a small towel on my next visit, rolled it up and knelt on that.

Medieval folks wore more layers of clothing, since there were no heated cars, and cloaks were often spread on the floors of underheated churches. Then people sat or kneeled on those.

Anyway, this is kinda off-topic…

God bless!

 

[Jean_Anthony]

aaa

 

[SMHW]

This is more of a question,

How can a Catholic Church not have kneelers, unless the members are expected to kneel on the floor? This is a first for me also.

Bill

My Church was built without kneelers because 20-30 years ago there was this idea going around in some west coast dioceses that the Latin Church could and/or would adopt the Eastern Catholic practice of standing rather than kneeling. At least one bishop (and I think there were others) ordered those in his diocese to stand during the Eucharistic Prayer. The option to stand through the entire Eucharistic Prayer obviously was not included in updates to the G.I.R.M.

The previous bishop told our previous pastor that our lack of kneelers was a sufficient reason not to kneel and apparently that understanding continues.
(Lest anyone think otherwise, the archbishop and our local regional bishop are very much aware of what happens at my parish)

 

[JimG]

For over a thousand years churches didn’t have kneelers and people used to kneel a lot more in mass than we do today.

Yes, but most of them did not have pews either.

 

[Crusaderbear]

Our Diocese official stance

There are indeed many churches around the diocese that do not have kneelers. While new churches to be built will have them, the Bishop is not asking any churches to retrofit their pews for he believes the expense to be unnecessary. In a church where there are kneelers, we are asked to kneel during the entire Eucharistic Prayer, unless impeded by age or infirmity. This, by the way, is a requirement found in the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) in an addendum only in the United States, whereas the universal Church remains standing. In a church where there are no kneelers, we are to remain standing during the Eucharistic Prayer, but make a profound bow (twice) after the “words of consecration”, as the presider genuflects. In other words, we are asked to do the same gesture of reverence as concelebrating priests do. No one is being asked to kneel on the floor; the deep bows asked of us are profound signs of reverence, should we know enough to do them.

 

[Phil502]

One of the Churches in my area has wooden chairs only, no pews or kneelers. There is one mass without music on Sunday called a silent Mass. It takes about 30 minutes. They also have Mass with music but still no general kneeling is done.

 

[Arizona_Fat_Gir]

Long ago, I attended a wedding at a very wealthy parish.

The church didn’t have kneelers, and I thought the reason for it was that rich people don’t kneel. They gave up on that. I guess I didn’t know, and it was just speculation.

 

[MaryT777]

Someone to told me they had “heard” that the apostles did not kneel but stood. That is what their priest told them as to why the new Church had no kneelers. Go figure.

Mary.

 

[HungerNThirst4R]

For over a thousand years churches didn’t have kneelers and people used to kneel a lot more in mass than we do today.

I think kneeling on the floor is a great, small penance. Sometimes I feel a little guilty when I pull the kneeler down.

 

[babochka]

Our Diocese official stance

There are indeed many churches around the diocese that do not have kneelers. While new churches to be built will have them, the Bishop is not asking any churches to retrofit their pews for he believes the expense to be unnecessary. In a church where there are kneelers, we are asked to kneel during the entire Eucharistic Prayer, unless impeded by age or infirmity.** This, by the way, is a requirement found in the GIRM (General Instruction of the Roman Missal) in an addendum only in the United States, whereas the universal Church remains standing.** In a church where there are no kneelers, we are to remain standing during the Eucharistic Prayer, but make a profound bow (twice) after the “words of consecration”, as the presider genuflects. In other words, we are asked to do the same gesture of reverence as concelebrating priests do. No one is being asked to kneel on the floor; the deep bows asked of us are profound signs of reverence, should we know enough to do them.

The bolded bit implies that the universal church remains standing throughout the Eucharistic prayer, but this is not the case. The universal norm is to kneel for the consecration, which is, of course, found in the Eucharistic prayer. This is generally from the epeclesis through the mystery of faith.

You should, of course, be obedient to your bishop, but I’m not sure how the lack of kneelers would prevent most people from kneeling. The aged and infirm, of course, could remain standing or sit.

 

[JimG]

I went all through elementary school attending almost daily Mass at the parish church and kneeling on bare wooden kneelers, which is not much different than kneeling on the floor. To me, the greatest liturgical innovation of all time was the advent of padded kneelers.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Yes, but most of them did not have pews either.

yes that is important to point out.

 

[babochka]

I went all through elementary school attending almost daily Mass at the parish church and kneeling on bare wooden kneelers, which is not much different than kneeling on the floor. To me, the greatest liturgical innovation of all time was the advent of padded kneelers.

How is that even a liturgical innovation? Pews, yes. But pads for comfort on already existing kneelers? I don’t see it.

 

[Crusaderbear]

The bolded bit implies that the universal church remains standing throughout the Eucharistic prayer, but this is not the case. The universal norm is to kneel for the consecration, which is, of course, found in the Eucharistic prayer. This is generally from the epeclesis through the mystery of faith.

You should, of course, be obedient to your bishop, but I’m not sure how the lack of kneelers would prevent most people from kneeling. The aged and infirm, of course, could remain standing or sit.

Based on the layout of our church, taking out the kneelers has allowed an extra couple rows of seats…maybe that was part of the reason for removal- there are pinholes at the base of the seats that look like kneelers might have been an option…

From the responses to this thread, it seems like a very common theme.

 

[Phemie]

I went all through elementary school attending almost daily Mass at the parish church and kneeling on bare wooden kneelers, which is not much different than kneeling on the floor. To me, the greatest liturgical innovation of all time was the advent of padded kneelers.

We must be of the same generation because I vividly remember kneeling on plain board kneelers and not being able to see over the back of the pew in front of me.

 

[Phemie]

How is that even a liturgical innovation? Pews, yes. But pads for comfort on already existing kneelers? I don’t see it.

I rather think that was typed tongue in cheek. We thought it as a great innovation. Imagine, comfort in church! To a kid that was a treat.