SPLIT: How does the catholic church define Tradition?

[Claire_from_DE]

Pixie Dust;3570076]

Where specifically where would you find a reference in church teachings and the living Traditions to support that “you are not to sin all you want”? What sources would you consult?

Say I’m a Catholic and can’t read, I have been taught that I must repent of sin, confess it to God and a priest, and amend my life. If someone read Romans 5 to me, I would know that it doesn’t mean sin all you want because that contradicts the Tradition passed down to me.

All churches have their Tradition and traditions. One Protestant Tradition is sola scriptura. But that is a tradition of men. The apostles never preached sola scriptura and it’s not in the bible either.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

How about teachings i.e. Traditions not grounded in the scriptures?
Things like eating meat on Fridays is a sin or the wearing scapulars which both have an impact on a soul?

Sacred Tradition is different from ‘traditions’.

The church, which has the authority to bind and loose, imposes on us a very few disciplines which bind under pain of sin (unless we are ill or otherwise unable to obey them). Among these are to attend mass on Sundays, contribute to the support of the church, and follow the church’s laws on fasting and abstinence (which are very few). So yes, purposely disobeying the church’s law about eating meat would be a serious sin of disobedience.

Some things are just pious traditions or practices, something usually done or permitted but not required. These would include wearing scapulars or medals as signs of devotion to God, saying certain prayers, using icons as aids to prayer, kneeling to pray, singing certain songs, building a church in the form of a cross, etc.

 

[justasking4]

Unless you are claiming apostalic succession, I cannot find any any verse in the Bible that gives you any authority. Chapter and verse please.

True. Nor will you find a verse in Scripture that says the catholic church is the only authority either.
What does apostolic succession mean?

 

[justasking4]

Sacred Tradition is different from ‘traditions’.

The church, which has the authority to bind and loose, imposes on us a very few disciplines which bind under pain of sin (unless we are ill or otherwise unable to obey them). Among these are to attend mass on Sundays, contribute to the support of the church, and follow the church’s laws on fasting and abstinence (which are very few). So yes, purposely disobeying the church’s law about eating meat would be a serious sin of disobedience.

Some things are just pious traditions or practices, something usually done or permitted but not required. These would include wearing scapulars or medals as signs of devotion to God, saying certain prayers, using icons as aids to prayer, kneeling to pray, singing certain songs, building a church in the form of a cross, etc.

Where does the church make the distinctions between a “tradiiton” and “Tradition” about some doctrine or practice?

 

[justasking4]

justasking4;3567968:

Can you give a couple of examples of “the oral preaching of the Apostles” not recorded in the scriptures?

Claire from DE
That’s the point, it was word of mouth, not written. The apostles mostly preached. We know what they preached by how their followers put into practice what was preached.

So you have no way of knowing exactly what a given apostle preached? Just because they may have put into practice what an apostle taught orally would not mean you would know what it was.

 

[justasking4]

Claire from DE;3571442]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Pixie Dust;3570076]

Where specifically where would you find a reference in church teachings and the living Traditions to support that “you are not to sin all you want”? What sources would you consult?

Claire from DE
Say I’m a Catholic and can’t read, I have been taught that I must repent of sin, confess it to God and a priest, and amend my life. If someone read Romans 5 to me, I would know that it doesn’t mean sin all you want because that contradicts the Tradition passed down to me.

By this method you would not be using the living Tradition of your church but your own reasoning.

All churches have their Tradition and traditions. One Protestant Tradition is sola scriptura. But that is a tradition of men.

i agree in part.
How would you define Sola Scriptura?

The apostles never preached sola scriptura and it’s not in the bible either.

I need to see you defintion first before i can answer this.

 

[davidv]

True. Nor will you find a verse in Scripture that says the catholic church is the only authority either.
What does apostolic succession mean?

You’re joking? Right? You have been presented documented answers to both of these. After all of the threads you’ve posted on. And this is the response I get?

 

[justinthemartyr]

Where does the church make the distinctions between a “tradiiton” and “Tradition” about some doctrine or practice?

because the church does not teach traditions as doctrine.
The church teaches the Sacred Tradition concernign matters of faith and morals, infallibly.

 

[justasking4]

because the church does not teach traditions as doctrine.
The church teaches the Sacred Tradition concernign matters of faith and morals, infallibly.

Can you give me an example of this?

 

[justasking4]

You’re joking? Right? You have been presented documented answers to both of these. After all of the threads you’ve posted on. And this is the response I get?

There is no specific verse that says the catholic church is the only church that has authority. If so, where is it?

 

[wanner47]

There is no specific verse that says the catholic church is the only church that has authority. If so, where is it?

There is no verse in the Bible that says that YOU have authority either. Since that’s the case, why should anyone in this thread listen to what you have to say?

 

[Pixie_Dust]

There is no specific verse that says the catholic church is the only church that has authority. If so, where is it?

What other Church can trace its leadership back to Jesus, who gave His authority to Peter and the other Apostles? Which Church has an unbroken line of apostolic succession from Peter to His successor today?

 

[justasking4]

What other Church can trace its leadership back to Jesus, who gave His authority to Peter and the other Apostles? Which Church has an unbroken line of apostolic succession from Peter to His successor today?

What does apostolic succession mean? Where do the scriptrues claim that the church that possesses this attribute is always right?

 

[justasking4]

Originally Posted by justasking4
There is no specific verse that says the catholic church is the only church that has authority. If so, where is it?

wanner47
There is no verse in the Bible that says that YOU have authority either. Since that’s the case, why should anyone in this thread listen to what you have to say?

Since no one has this authority on these threads or outside then if i understand you correctly you should not listen to anyone.

 

[fdmilkis]

Since no one has this authority on these threads or outside then if i understand you correctly you should not listen to anyone.

authority of binding and loosing new to you?

 

[justasking4]

authority of binding and loosing new to you?

Not sure what you mean. Can you clairify?

 

[grandfather]

Would you not agree that the reason the church does not sanction polygamy is that the scriptures never promote it and Jesus Himself taught that a marriage is only between one man and one woman (see Matthew 19:4-6)?

 

[wanner47]

Since no one has this authority on these threads or outside then if i understand you correctly you should not listen to anyone.

You claim that the Church has no authority, and the Bible supports that claim.

I claim that YOU have no authority, and the Bible supports that claim as well.

Therefore, if we go by YOUR logic – in that we should only listen the people/entities the Bible explicitly says to listen to – then we should not listen to the Church OR you.

That being the case, what are you doing in this thread?

 

[guanophore]

Where specifically where would you find a reference in church teachings and the living Traditions to support that “you are not to sin all you want”? What sources would you consult?

The Church teaches that we are to follow the Ten Commandments.

By the authority of the Scriptures.

I am sorry, I put justasking4 into the search of the Bible, and I can’t find where you were authorized? could you be listed under another name?

btw, Jesus did not place His authority in the Scripture. He placed it in the Apostles. Since you are not in the Apostolic succession, it is not likely that this applies to you either.

Scripture.

Scripture does not “authorize”. People Authorize. Jesus gave authority. Anyway, those scriptures you claim “authorize” clearly state there is another source of authority.

Rom 13:1-2
For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. 2 Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment."

Why are you resisting those appointed by the Apostles, ja4? Doesn’t that give you pause? Could it be that this is what is secretly eating at you, that you can’t walk away from here?

If we study the Scriptures we can discern what these essentials are. I Corinthians 15:1-4 and Romans 10:9-10 would be examples of essential doctrines. To deny them, is to condem yourself.

Sure! Everyone can come up with a different list! We have seen that, have we not?

Similar to the previous response. For example it is not essential to believe that Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus while believing that Christ died for my sins would be essential.

Pope ja4 has his own standard for what is essential! You might want to consider publishing. The papal book is on the bestseller list this week.

 

[sodak]

By the authority of the Scriptures.

Where is THAT in the Bible?

Unitarians are not Christians since they deny the deity of Christ which is an essential teaching of the Scriptures.

How do we decide on an essential teaching?

If we study the Scriptures we can discern what these essentials are.

No, we can’t. That’s why we have so many different denominations today. Why don’t you provide us with a list of essentials and a list of non-essentials, along with the chapter and verse for each?

Similar to the previous response. For example it is not essential to believe that Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus while believing that Christ died for my sins would be essential.

I already told you, which makes me wonder why you keep asking.

Because, as he’s shown in other threads, he’s not here for a good apologetics discussion, he’s here to stir up trouble.

Good questions and one that demands answers. i agree that Jesus taught and did many other things not recorded. However what exactly were these things? Can you give a couple of examples of what they were?

I’ll bet if you read from the early Church fathers, you could find some of this. I’ll let you do the research, though, since you are interested.

There are serious problems with infant baptism. For one there are no specific examples of in the scriptures…

Wrong. There are instances of people having their entire households, including servants baptized with them.

There is no way to get away from “private interpretation of scripture” or church teachings. When you study your church’ teachings you must interpret what it says for yourself. The same goes for the scriptures.

I’ll bet Satan loves this!

True followers of Christ are united on the essentials.

Wrong again. Many "true followers can NOT agree on the essentials. Look at how many denominations there are. I’m sure that your’s, of course, is the one that has them all correct, right?

There is no specific verse that says the catholic church is the only church that has authority. If so, where is it?

Do you even read the Bible? Giving Peter the power to loose and bind, and giving him the Keys to the Kingdom? Go and do some research in Judaism to see the significance of giving keys is. You’ll be quite surprised.