SPLIT: Is the Bible the only reference evidence of Jesus?

[Aihwa]

sorry to hear your problems, I had doubt too im guessing we all do at sometime in our life but here is what I thought and came up with do you believe Socrates existed or plato? what about Confucious? these are people who existed way before Jesus time and everyone agreees that were real people. not only that they founded a movement or philosophy and had disciples too:
Confucius=Founder of Confucianism
Gautama Buddha=Founder of Buddhism

so then my question is who would be the founder of christianity? since it has the word christ in it certainly Jesus existed and had diciples to teach his teachings

not to mention the book of daniel says that the messiah (Jesus) will come at 32 AD
alphanewsdaily.com/mathprophecy1.html

Because there is one book that claims Jesus existence. The bible. The same book that claims there are floodgates in the sky, and the world is flat. Not exactly a sterling reputation there for historical accuracy.

Confucius=Founder of Confucianism
Gautama Buddha=Founder of Buddhism

so then my question is who would be the founder of christianity?

That’s not logic.

 

[Blacksword]

Because there is one book that claims Jesus existence. The bible. The same book that claims there are floodgates in the sky, and the world is flat. Not exactly a sterling reputation there for historical accuracy.

That’s not logic.

The Bible claims neither of these things, they are metaphor and poor interpretation on your part. The OT actually claims the world is spherical, asking who it is that holds the circle of the earth!

And this thread isn’t the place for this. The OP asked for prayers and encouragement. Start your own thread if you want to debate such matters.

 

[vsedriver]

Because there is one book that claims Jesus existence. The bible. The same book that claims there are floodgates in the sky, and the world is flat. Not exactly a sterling reputation there for historical accuracy.

but their are floodgates in the sky and the world is flat. That is a true appearance of the world. Unless you’ve never stood in a real heavy downpour which is like having someone open flood gates and if you look across your land it sure does look flat with maybe a few hills and even mountains. But you don’t get the sense of a ‘round’ world.

Perception can be just as true as fact.

 

[JJ59]

Because there is one book that claims Jesus existence. The bible. The same book that claims there are floodgates in the sky, and the world is flat. Not exactly a sterling reputation there for historical accuracy.

That’s not logic.

I agree with Blacksword, if you legitemately want to debate this topic, we should start a new thread. That having been said, a few things:

The Bible is not one book, it’s a series of texts. In fact, the Gospels are 4 texts written separately by 4 different people. So it’s ludicrous to say, “Oh, here’s something silly in (insert Biblical text)! That renders the Gospels, written by different people at a completely different time historically inaccurate!”

Also, the texts in the Bible are not the only texts that claim Jesus’ existence like you say. I’ve already mentioned the reconstructed Josephus text, Tacitus and Pliny the Younger.

Isn’t that enough evidence for a marginal Jewish preacher, a poor, homeless cult leader, executed as a criminal, providing him with the ultimate marginality, who associated with tax collectors and prostitutes?

 

[wiggbuggie]

Because there is one book that claims Jesus existence. The bible. The same book that claims there are floodgates in the sky, and the world is flat. Not exactly a sterling reputation there for historical accuracy.

That’s not logic.

like others have said before me, bible is not one book and there are other sources talking about Jeusus and that people believe in other ancient persons in history but why not Jesus? Like I said do you believe plato or confusious ever existed?

 

[Mark_David]

but their are floodgates in the sky and the world is flat. That is a true appearance of the world. Unless you’ve never stood in a real heavy downpour which is like having someone open flood gates and if you look across your land it sure does look flat with maybe a few hills and even mountains. But you don’t get the sense of a ‘round’ world.

Perception can be just as true as fact.

Good point. Speaking of the world as “flat”, especially in ancient times, would be perfectly rational. The Bible isn’t a science book; though there’s no doubt in my mind that it’s entirely infallible. I’ve never been convinced that it teaches a literal “flat earth”.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Before making blanketed statements rooted in false assumptions, please do your homework.

Two people come to mind immediately, Josephus and Philo.

newadvent.org/cathen/08375a.htm

I’m certain that there are others. I used to have both books included in my library for study. I was so hard core bible only that I realized I was being a hypocrite and donated them to our congregation along with several different sources of commentaries. Well over a $1000 in books. I wished I had kept at least the Lexicons and dictionaries as well as the sources I cited above. I’m returned to Catholicism after reading the Didache and some of the ancient church fathers.

 

[stevekehl]

shaw:shaw:

Because there is one book that claims Jesus existence. The bible. The same book that claims there are floodgates in the sky, and the world is flat. Not exactly a sterling reputation there for historical accuracy.
That’s not logic.

Seems Job had pretty good idea of science.
Job 26:7 who hung the northern sky and suspended the earth on empty space.
Who knew the earth was hanging in space during Job’s lifetime.
Job 38:24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
Explaining how the light from the sun warms earth and air to cause wind.
Job 38:16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
Springs weren’t discovered on the ocean floor until the 1970s.
Job 38:25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters,
Ocean currents, not discovered by man for thousands of years after Job died.
Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
Telegraphs, phones, radio, and TV use electricity to communicate.How did Job know lightning could be used to send messages?
Floodgates in the sky, please.shaw:

 

[FightingFat]

Because there is one book that claims Jesus existence.

This is incorrect. There are many non-Biblical sources that testify to Jesus. In fact the vast majority of modern scholars do not argue that Jesus Christ was a real, historical person.

In fact, there is more actual literary evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ than there is for the existence of Julius Caesar!

 

[Brother_Steve]

Because there is one book that claims Jesus existence. The bible. The same book that claims there are floodgates in the sky, and the world is flat. Not exactly a sterling reputation there for historical accuracy.

That’s not logic.

Several authors of antiquity wrote of Jesus as a person of history. Among them were Tacitus, Josephus, Seutonius, and Pliny the Younger. In addition Sir William Ramsey, an eminent archaeologist, once held that Luke’s writings were not historically sound. His own subsequent investigation of near-eastern archaeology forced him to reverse his position and conclude that “Luke is a historian of the first rank.”

The issue of Earth’s shape is addressed in Scripture, the Hebrew wording implies spherical Isaiah 40:22, Isaiah 40: 22, Job 26:10 etc…

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Several authors of antiquity wrote of Jesus as a person of history. Among them were Tacitus, Josephus, Seutonius, and Pliny the Younger. In addition Sir William Ramsey, an eminent archaeologist, once held that Luke’s writings were not historically sound. His own subsequent investigation of near-eastern archaeology forced him to reverse his position and conclude that “Luke is a historian of the first rank.”

The issue of Earth’s shape is addressed in Scripture, the Hebrew wording implies spherical Isaiah 40:22, Isaiah 40: 22, Job 26:10 etc…

I learned this many decades ago while searching for truth on another subject. Scientificlly speaking, many people say the bible contradicts itself. But if one truly knows how to read scripture I believe you’ll find that you have to take scripture in the setting it was written in and what people meant by certain things they wrote. I’ve never found a true contradiction in scripture as atheistic leanings tend to hold on to for life.

 

[ddarko]

Because there is one book that claims Jesus existence. The bible. The same book that claims there are floodgates in the sky, and the world is flat. Not exactly a sterling reputation there for historical accuracy.

There are 27 books in the new testament written that makes claims on Jesus’s existence.

There are books in the Old Testament that are poetic and books in the New Testament like the book of Revelation which are poetic and symbolic. At the same time, the gospels are not mere symbolic accounts. They are real.

What you’ve gone and done is like an unintelligent reader, you’ve decided that it is one big book. Therefore since some parts are poetic, then possibly all other parts are merely poetic and symbolic too. But that is obviously absurd. How you read one book and the way the author communicates in that book does not determine how you read rest of the books in the Bible.

Might want to get your-self acquainted with these simple ideas first.

God Bless

 

[Khalid]

Because there is one book that claims Jesus existence. The bible. The same book that claims there are floodgates in the sky, and the world is flat. Not exactly a sterling reputation there for historical accuracy.

That’s not logic.

It actually is inductive inferential logic. There are many more types of logic than standard “term logic” (Aristotleian with syllogisms) or “symbolic logic” (modern college logic, computer programming), which are both primarily deductive. There is inductive logic, the counter of deductive; inferential, or the logical form of “educated guess”, modal logic, fuzzy logic (no yes/no, but many shades of yes and no), and even the explanation of our very own Most Holy Trinity requires an alternative logic, called non-transitive modal logic.

Let A be God
Let B be The Father
Let C be The Son
Let D be the Holy Spirit

If using standard term logic, if A is B and C is A, B must be C; this equates the Father and the Son, giving a glimpse of the nature of the Most Holy Trinity, without divison; but in order to understand the hypostatic principles, it is required that:

If A is B and C is A, B does not necessarily equal C. This is called “non-transitive” logic.

Anyone who has ever seen a Shield of the Trinity has seen an alternative logic in action. There is not just one valid logic, but all valid logic are subsets of the valid logic (without getting in to axiomatic set theory, that’s about the best I can do).