SPLIT: Matthew Kelly wrong about confessing sins?

[MollyMac]

I have been reading and listening to the various links posted and I am a bit saddened by what Matthew Kelly says at the 3:00 mark and beyond during his youtube video. I had just read the Catechism posted and came across this-

1. Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41

and this-

Let us fix our eyes on Christ’s blood and understand how precious it is to his Father, for, poured out for our salvation it has brought to the whole world the grace of repentance.

Followed by reading the Cat, I gave listen to the youtube link-

youtube.com/watch?v=rS3q8JHR74k#action=share

Matthew Kelly suggests that having a relationship with Jesus Christ and confessing our sin before him in prayer is wrong and “does not work”. What I am trying to understand is how a person can go in front of their priest and their confession “works”, but somehow does not work when you ask the Saviour to forgive you. Either way, it is what is found in your heart. Either way, you can deceive yourself. As he said, " We can convince ourselves of all sorts of crazy stuff." Matthew Kelly should be ashamed to lead brothers and sisters away from their Saviour. Possibly the “me and Jesus stuff” does not “work” for Matthew, but he should not lead people from the Saviour who is faithful to forgive our sins when confessed before His throne with a contrite heart.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

aaa

 

[dshix]

I have been reading and listening to the various links posted and I am a bit saddened by what Matthew Kelly says at the 3:00 mark and beyond during his youtube video. I had just read the Catechism posted and came across this-

1. Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41

and this-

Let us fix our eyes on Christ’s blood and understand how precious it is to his Father, for, poured out for our salvation it has brought to the whole world the grace of repentance.

Followed by reading the Cat, I gave listen to the youtube link-

youtube.com/watch?v=rS3q8JHR74k#action=share

Matthew Kelly suggests that having a relationship with Jesus Christ and confessing our sin before him in prayer is wrong and “does not work”. What I am trying to understand is how a person can go in front of their priest and their confession “works”, but somehow does not work when you ask the Saviour to forgive you. Either way, it is what is found in your heart. Either way, you can deceive yourself. As he said, " We can convince ourselves of all sorts of crazy stuff." Matthew Kelly should be ashamed to lead brothers and sisters away from their Saviour. Possibly the “me and Jesus stuff” does not “work” for Matthew, but he should not lead people from the Saviour who is faithful to forgive our sins when confessed before His throne with a contrite heart.

The way Matthew Kelly said it, in saying that it “does not work” is the wrong way to say it. However, I understand what he is getting at and he is correct. Our sins are forgiven, and we can know for sure that they are forgiven, through the sacrament of confession.

That doesn’t mean it is impossible to have sins forgiven outside of confession. Sins can also be forgiven via perfect contrition. However, it is impossible for a person to know if they have truly made a “perfect” contrition or not; the only way to be absolutely sure of forgiveness is confession.

 

[Della]

Along with dshix’s great answer, it is important to note that Catholics are not obliged to confession minor (venial) sins, but only grave (mortal) ones. We are encouraged to confess all our sins because doing so helps us not commit them again, we receive the grace of the sacrament, and we bring healing to ourselves and to the whole Christian body. But, we can make perfect contrition, as dshix noted, but still we are to confess mortal sins to be certain we have truly been repentant.

 

[dshix]

Along with dshix’s great answer, it is important to note that Catholics are not obliged to confession minor (venial) sins, but only grave (mortal) ones. We are encouraged to confess all our sins because doing so helps us not commit them again, we receive the grace of the sacrament, and we bring healing to ourselves and to the whole Christian body. But, we can make perfect contrition, as dshix noted, but still we are to confess mortal sins to be certain we have truly been repentant.

 

[the]

why do you even need to pray? wouldn’t god be able to tell what your intentions are?

 

[MollyMac]

why do you even need to pray? wouldn’t god be able to tell what your intentions are?

Our Saviour tells us to pray to our Heavenly Father. We do it in submission to the Holy Father of creation and as an act of worship to Him. God’s work is not accomplished by our power,by man’s power, but by God alone. Christ Jesus also tells us to confess our sins to each other and to the Father. “The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise” says Psalm 51: 17. God knows a man’s heart and He will not reject a person’s confession because he or she has not sat in front of a priest first. Ultimately, a Catholic is confessing to God before His throne when they are sitting with the priest.

 

[MollyMac]

For Matthew Kelly to utter the words he does in this video, to say the “me and Jesus stuff” does not work is to judge another man’s heart. A position that is not his. Like I mentioned before, I’m fairly certain there are Catholics who go in front of the priest whether behind the screen or face to face and confess their sins out of habit or simply tradition of because their parent is making them or because they have to take the Body and Blood or “ so and so will notice”. They are not really remorseful for their sin(s). It is just a performance or a quick fix for their conscience. Just like when a Protestant throws up a quick “sorry” to the Father and goes about their day. It goes back to being a Heart matter. And only God can see into the person’s heart. That’s really what my statement was about. Matthew Kelly spoke as if it is impossible to have a personal relationship with Christ Jesus and all of the verse He speaks in the Bible aren’t true. Matthew Kelly contradicts the Saviour and the words of scripture and he should be ashamed.

“Faithful Saviour, turn to me and be gracious to me for I am lonely and afflicted. The troubles of my heart are enlarged; bring me out of my distresses. Consider my affliction and my trouble and forgive all my sins.” When I speak this prayer to Jesus Christ and go away from it and confess my sin to the person I have hurt, is that an unforgiven sin because I chose not to confess it before a priest?

 

[dshix]

For Matthew Kelly to utter the words he does in this video, to say the “me and Jesus stuff” does not work is to judge another man’s heart. A position that is not his. Like I mentioned before, I’m fairly certain there are Catholics who go in front of the priest whether behind the screen or face to face and confess their sins out of habit or simply tradition of because their parent is making them or because they have to take the Body and Blood or “ so and so will notice”. They are not really remorseful for their sin(s). It is just a performance or a quick fix for their conscience. Just like when a Protestant throws up a quick “sorry” to the Father and goes about their day. It goes back to being a Heart matter. And only God can see into the person’s heart. That’s really what my statement was about. Matthew Kelly spoke as if it is impossible to have a personal relationship with Christ Jesus and all of the verse He speaks in the Bible aren’t true. Matthew Kelly contradicts the Saviour and the words of scripture and he should be ashamed.

“Faithful Saviour, turn to me and be gracious to me for I am lonely and afflicted. The troubles of my heart are enlarged; bring me out of my distresses. Consider my affliction and my trouble and forgive all my sins.” When I speak this prayer to Jesus Christ and go away from it and confess my sin to the person I have hurt, is that an unforgiven sin because I chose not to confess it before a priest?

Looks to me like you are putting words into his mouth. You are taking what he said out of context and using it in a separate context.

Forgiveness of sins is a sacrament: Confession.

 

[Bookcat]

I did not go to the link -but will simply note that venial sins (as I am sure he would agree) can be forgiven in many ways …prayer etc. Though it is good to bring some at least directly to confession.

Mortal sins can be forgiven prior to confession too via the grace of perfect contrition (contrition of love of God above all) which can co-exist with lesser kinds of contrition. Such is to include a resolve to confess as soon as possible *-for this is the way Jesus gave us to be forgiven of mortal sins *(deadly sins…like murder, adultery etc if one should fall into such after baptism).

It is Jesus who forgives in the Sacrament. It is his blood that washes the sins away…

I imagine the point Matthew is making is that “Jesus and me” not the way that Jesus wants – meaning that Jesus formed a Church and does not want us to “go it alone” -making up our own way but rather to follow his way. And remember my serious sins have an effect on the Church…as does my life in Love when in grace!

And such as an aside- is certainly not contrary to a personal relationship with Jesus --that is very much what the Church too whats for each of his disciples (just read Pope Benedict XVI on such).

 

[MollyMac]

Looks to me like you are putting words into his mouth. You are taking what he said out of context and using it in a separate context.

Possibly putting words into his mouth, but not taking it out of context in the least. If Mr. Kelly meant otherwise, he should have elaborated. He should have kept the video feed running. He stops it there and says, “Hope you enjoyed the video…” Well, now that I discovered that my relationship with Jesus Christ “doesn’t work”…well yes, I’ve enjoyed the video immensely. Thank you, sir. I suppose none of my sins have been forgiven presently and in the past, so I’m feeling splendid. I am regretful I wasted all that time praying to my Saviour and asking Him to forgive me and going through the trouble of reconciling with whomever I had offended or hurt. How mindless I was to think that THAT would “work”. That isn’t how I’m supposed to handle my sin according to James 5:16-19 and 1 John 1:5-10. I should not have sat through the preaching of the Word feeling convicted and prayed that God would forgive me. And what would give me the foolish impression that Jesus Christ could be my friend? I assume Christ was only talking to the disciples in John 15:15.

Like you posted, I am possibly placing words into Mr. Kelly’s mouth. Though, I do have to wonder how many men and women’s faith was shaken because they were told they could not pray to their Saviour for forgiveness. That it just “doesn’t work”. That they were probably deceiving themselves. It was a disheartening opinion to hear from Matthew Kelly.

 

[Della]

I can see that MK’s video has upset you, but really, should it?–since he doesn’t speak for the Church. If you don’t agree with him, that’s fine, you certainly don’t have to. It’s what the Church teaches that matters not how Mr. Kelly interprets Church teaching.

I haven’t watched his videos, but I started to read his book. He’s attempting to rally Catholics–to energize them and give them a renewed interest in their faith. I understand what he is doing, but I’m not all that crazy about his approach to certain issues. Nor is his work deeply spiritual. It’s pabulum for the masses, so to speak. So, I wouldn’t let what he says, or didn’t say as fully as he perhaps should have, bother me. Just go by what the Church teaches. That’s all we need to do.

 

[dshix]

Possibly putting words into his mouth, but not taking it out of context in the least. If Mr. Kelly meant otherwise, he should have elaborated. He should have kept the video feed running. He stops it there and says, “Hope you enjoyed the video…” Well, now that I discovered that my relationship with Jesus Christ “doesn’t work”…well yes, I’ve enjoyed the video immensely. Thank you, sir. I suppose none of my sins have been forgiven presently and in the past, so I’m feeling splendid. I am regretful I wasted all that time praying to my Saviour and asking Him to forgive me and going through the trouble of reconciling with whomever I had offended or hurt. How mindless I was to think that THAT would “work”. That isn’t how I’m supposed to handle my sin according to James 5:16-19 and 1 John 1:5-10. I should not have sat through the preaching of the Word feeling convicted and prayed that God would forgive me. And what would give me the foolish impression that Jesus Christ could be my friend? I assume Christ was only talking to the disciples in John 15:15.

Like you posted, I am possibly placing words into Mr. Kelly’s mouth. Though, I do have to wonder how many men and women’s faith was shaken because they were told they could not pray to their Saviour for forgiveness. That it just “doesn’t work”. That they were probably deceiving themselves. It was a disheartening opinion to hear from Matthew Kelly.

You list as your religion “becoming certain of certain things.”

If you are not Catholic, why do you even care what Matthew Kelly says? You can’t even receive confession until you are Catholic.

If you are Catholic, why do you not comply with Church teaching that Confession is the proper way to receive forgiveness of sins?

 

[MarkInOregon]

For Matthew Kelly to utter the words he does in this video, to say the “me and Jesus stuff” does not work is to judge another man’s heart.
"{/quote]

Please explain how this is judging another mans heart. I just don’t see that.

The Peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[MarkInOregon]

I have been reading and listening to the various links posted and I am a bit saddened by what Matthew Kelly says at the 3:00 mark and beyond during his youtube video. I had just read the Catechism posted and came across this-

1. Only God forgives sins.39 Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: "Your sins are forgiven."40 Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in his name.41

and this-

Let us fix our eyes on Christ’s blood and understand how precious it is to his Father, for, poured out for our salvation it has brought to the whole world the grace of repentance.

Followed by reading the Cat, I gave listen to the youtube link-

youtube.com/watch?v=rS3q8JHR74k#action=share

Matthew Kelly suggests that having a relationship with Jesus Christ and confessing our sin before him in prayer is wrong and “does not work”. What I am trying to understand is how a person can go in front of their priest and their confession “works”, but somehow does not work when you ask the Saviour to forgive you. Either way, it is what is found in your heart. Either way, you can deceive yourself. As he said, " We can convince ourselves of all sorts of crazy stuff." Matthew Kelly should be ashamed to lead brothers and sisters away from their Saviour. Possibly the “me and Jesus stuff” does not “work” for Matthew, but he should not lead people from the Saviour who is faithful to forgive our sins when confessed before His throne with a contrite heart.

I don’t think you understand what he is saying. He does not suggest that confessing sin before Jesus in prayer is wrong nor that it “does not work”–in the way you are interpreting “does not work”. I think you are reading or hearing that into what he said. What he means by “does not work”–and I think he makes this point in this short video–is that as humans we are prone to deceive ourselves and confession, aside from being the mechanism for the forgiveness of sins instituted by Christ, helps us avoid this. With confession we have to verbalize our sin, we confess it out loud, we receive guidance on how to avoid this sin in the future, and it helps us to keep from convincing ourselves that x or y or z is not a sin. In order to confess to the priest we need to take time to think about our sins, which ones we have committed so that we can try to make a good and complete confession. That’s what he is driving at.

Confession was instituted by Christ as the ordinary–though not only–way in which sins are to be forgiven. Why wouldn’t any Christian want to avail themselves of that and receive the grace that comes from it? You do realize that it is not a man, the priest, who forgives the sins don’t you, but Christ working through his minister, the priest, who forgives the sins? The priest is simply Christ’s instrument in this.

He’s trying to lead people to our savior. He’s trying to help people do something that will draw them closer to Jesus, to God – not drive them away. He’s trying to draw them to Christ’s mercy, to the sacrament of this mercy instituted by Christ.

The Peace of Christ,
Mark

 

[MarkInOregon]

Like I mentioned before, I’m fairly certain there are Catholics who go in front of the priest whether behind the screen or face to face and confess their sins out of habit or simply tradition

Yes, but could not the same be said of those who confess mentally to Jesus. I would suggest it is easier to fall into this trap of insincerly or habitually confessing sins – when you go straight to Jesus. The goal, aside from being forgiven, is to stop the sin. Going to confession does facilitate in that.

Additionally, it would seem that your comment above comes much closer to judging someones heart than anything Matthew Kelly said. He made no comment about the sincerity or earnestness with which anyone confesses to Jesus. You comment above that you are “fairly certain” does seem to render judgment regarding such.

Matthew Kelly spoke as if it is impossible to have a personal relationship with Christ Jesus and all of the verse He speaks in the Bible aren’t true. Matthew Kelly contradicts the Saviour and the words of scripture and he should be ashamed.

Actually he did no such thing. You are hearing what is not there.

“Faithful Saviour, turn to me and be gracious to me for I am lonely and afflicted. The troubles of my heart are enlarged; bring me out of my distresses. Consider my affliction and my trouble and forgive all my sins.” When I speak this prayer to Jesus Christ and go away from it and confess my sin to the person I have hurt, is that an unforgiven sin because I chose not to confess it before a priest?

I don’t think Matthew Kelly makes any comment or judgment on this is the video you posted. Further this is not for any of us to judge–and from what I have read by Matthew Kelly I don’t think he believes he is in any position to judge that.

He is speaking about the sacrament of confession, instituted by Christ, and how it helps us, how we need it as Christians, as humans. Why is that so offensive to you? You have free will–you can chose to believe we don’t need it. Perhaps the fact that you are so upset over this short video is God trying to tell you something. Perhaps deep down you know that we all need confession. I don’t know, but it does seem you have twisted what he said in an effort to discredit it in order to dismiss it.

I wish you peace and mercy.

The peace of Christ,
Mark