SPLIT: MHFM attacks the Divine Mercy Devotion!?

[JReducation]

I know his posts are quite long sometimes, but calling him Bother is a bit harsh…

I understood that he meant Brother, as in my title.

My posts tend to be long, because my ministry is evangelization and formation. One of the means that I use is the internet. I’m not particularly interested in the debates and discussions as I am in teaching what the Church teaches and believes on certain subjects. I will often insert formation into a debate or discussion.

Obviously, I can’t repond to every subject. Theology is like medicine. You get a general degree at the Master’s level, which is a four-year M.Div. If you want to be a specialist, you pick an area and go back for a post-grad degree.

The average priest or brother cannot be an expert in every area of theology. He’s not going to attempt to speak in every area. It is arrogant to do so. It’s like an opthamologist commenting on breast cancer. Just because he went to medical school and studied oncology and gynocology does not mean that his an expert on breast cancer.

That’s why you won’t get many priests and brothers on these fora. People want to speak authoritatively on subjects where they have no formal training and priests and brothers are not going to go there. We deliberately defer to oiur colleagues and confreres who are experts on such subjects. At best, we can answer basic questions about a subject. Remember, all the education that most have is 8 years of university. That’s enough to answer the most common questions, what I call the questions the come up in everyday situtations. Those tricky questions, such as this article that was linked here are best answered by folks in the Spiritual Theology Department.

These posts contain quite a bit of good explanations, details, theology, logic, and elaborate answers. That is all to the good. But I would like to just approach this matter from what you might call the opposite direction.

Simply pray the D.M. Chaplet. Now, I ask you, what could be more humble, more adoring, more loving, more faithful, more simple and unpretentious, and more honoring of our Lord’s Passion? No fault can be found with this easy yet glorious prayer. No conflict with Catholic teaching or with sincere belief. It is beautiful and good and holy.

If some “weirdos” (I like your style Michael) want to drum up a bunch of strange inferences about St. Faustina because she received Communion in the hand, that is a convoluted, psuedo-intellectual argument to try to tear down the whole thing, out of context.

Whether you like St. Faustina as a saint or find her tedious, whether you read the book or skip it, none of that detracts from the worthiness of the Divine Mercy Chaplet.

The reason they contain a lot of theology is because the article that was lined is very bad theology. It had to be addressed.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[NorthTexan88]

I just googled “Chaplet of Divine Mercy” and did not find a single link to MostHolyFamilyMonastery, after looking at 12 pages. Of all the worthy sites listed, you just happened to find this heretical one? And you didn’t look at any others?
That’s dangerous web surfing, my friend.

Not sure then, might have put a “what is” or “how to pray…” in front of it then, now reading about the Dimons Bro’s and their “monastery” I know not to read anything by them, so lesson learned. And I actually bought St. Faustina’s diary today so I won’t be ignorant on the matter!

 

[ESMDHokie77]

why would you visit an anti-Catholic website to get information about a Catholic devotion?

well… to play devil’s advocate would a lutheran website have content that is anti-lutheran?


to the poster who shared the info about site reviews at catholicculture… thank you!

 

[Sirach2]

to the poster who shared the info about site reviews at catholicculture… thank you!

:thankyou:I’m so glad you find it helpful. Here’s their list of top-rated sites, as well as those rated “red - danger.” Catholic Answers is, of course, on the green top-rated list. But to substantiate what I said earlier in this thread, notice the large number of danger sites that have “Catholic” in the title. That’s why I value the information provided by this website as a wonderful service to all of us for our protection.

 

[ClayPots47]

PS. I thought Diamond Brothers was a musical group.

You haven’t heard their big hit? A blues tune called Catholic Conspiracy Theories? It’s really popular among sedevacantists and some radical traditionalists. :bigyikes: It should be renamed The Sedevacantist Blues. :clapping: There’s also Paul, John Paul and Benedict. It’s to the tune of the old 1960’s hit, Abraham, Martin and John. The lyrics ask where all the valid popes have gone (because these all wound up being false). :whacky:

OK, I’ve used up my 25 cents.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

That was worth more than 25¢, with inflation it’s at least $2.50.

While I don’t have your background in Mystical Theology, I have read enough to know that the Dimond Brothers don’t have a grasp of Mystical Theology at all. For that matter, they don’t have much knowledge of theology in general. It is amazing the misinformation they spout, but the average person in the pew wouldn’t know any better; which makes websites like this dangerous. At least there are websites like CAF, EWTN and more that counteract the misinformation on these questionable and often down right dangerous websites. Plus, there are educated folks such as yourself, educating the uneducated. I think you refuted the claims of that PDF well. $25 worth of theology for 2.5¢ of insane rantings by someone who really didn’t objectively review the material being read, if it was read at all. It’s more like cherry-picking.

And on an additional note, I had to laugh at this from the PDF: “(S)omething that concerned us was that it seemed popular among the Charismatic"Catholics”." :extrahappy: Horrors! The Charismatics are pushing the Divine Mercy Devotion. Obviously, the author of the PDF put the word Catholic in quotation marks to indicate that Charismatics are not Catholics. Of course, the Charismatic Renewal has had the support of the popes, going back to Paul VI; but since they consider those same popes apostates, that obviously doesn’t matter. A lot of radical traditionalists, and all the sedevacantists are pretty much opposed to anything charismatic. So, if the Charismatics think the Divine Mercy Devotion is something to promote, this in itself is a red flag to these folks (The Dimond Brothers) that this is a bad devotion. I didn’t know us Charismatics were practicing and promoting a dangerous devotion (Divine Mercy).

 

[JReducation]

You haven’t heard their big hit? A blues tune called Catholic Conspiracy Theories? It’s really popular among sedevacantists and some radical traditionalists. :bigyikes: It should be renamed The Sedevacantist Blues. :clapping: There’s also Paul, John Paul and Benedict. It’s to the tune of the old 1960’s hit, Abraham, Martin and John. The lyrics ask where all the valid popes have gone (because these all wound up being false).

That was worth more than 25¢, with inflation it’s at least $2.50.

While I don’t have your background in Mystical Theology, I have read enough to know that the Dimond Brothers don’t have a grasp of Mystical Theology at all. For that matter, they don’t have much knowledge of theology in general. It is amazing the misinformation they spout, but the average person in the pew wouldn’t know any better; which makes websites like this dangerous. At least there are websites like CAF, EWTN and more that counteract the misinformation on these questionable and often down right dangerous websites. Plus, there are educated folks such as yourself, educating the uneducated. I think you refuted the claims of that PDF well. $25 worth of theology for 2.5¢ of insane rantings by someone who really didn’t objectively review the material being read, if it was read at all. It’s more like cherry-picking.

And on an additional note, I had to laugh at this from the PDF: “(S)omething that concerned us was that it seemed popular among the Charismatic"Catholics”." :extrahappy: Horrors! The Charismatics are pushing the Divine Mercy Devotion. Obviously, the author of the PDF put the word Catholic in quotation marks to indicate that Charismatics are not Catholics. Of course, the Charismatic Renewal has had the support of the popes, going back to Paul VI; but since they consider those same popes apostates, that obviously doesn’t matter. A lot of radical traditionalists, and all the sedevacantists are pretty much opposed to anything charismatic. So, if the Charismatics think the Divine Mercy Devotion is something to promote, this in itself is a red flag to these folks (The Dimond Brothers) that this is a bad devotion. I didn’t know us Charismatics were practicing and promoting a dangerous devotion (Divine Mercy).

The Charismatics shouldn’t feel badly. They’re in good company. These groups don’t like Franciscans either, because of our position on absolute obedience without murmurring and without questioning.

Oh, we also vow obedience to the pope, which makes us popolotrists. I can’t even spell that word, nevermind pronounce it three times unless I’ve had at least six beers.

I don’t drink, so I gues that’s a word I won’t be using often.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I feel sorry for the Dimond Brothers.
These men MISinterpret just about EVERYTHING that JPII and Benedict XVI
have EVER said and done.
If a group of Jews were allowed to pray Jewish prayers in the Vatican, (and they were),
this is a sign that the Popes (or ANTIpopes as they call them)
were promoting the denial of Jesus Christ !!
Everything in the post-Vatican II church is interpreted in the WORST
possible light by these people.
Really, friends, stay away from their website.
It could easily destroy your Catholic Faith.

Jaypeeto4

 

[ClayPots47]

The Charismatics shouldn’t feel badly. They’re in good company. These groups don’t like Franciscans either, because of our position on absolute obedience without murmurring and without questioning.

Oh, we also vow obedience to the pope, which makes us popolotrists. I can’t even spell that word, nevermind pronounce it three times unless I’ve had at least six beers.

I don’t drink, so I gues that’s a word I won’t be using often.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

Yeah! I guess us Franciscans aren’t very popular among them as popolotrists who obey the pope. I learned a new word, popolotrists. I ain’t even gonna try pronouncing that one, and I don’t think 1 let alone 6 beers would help me. I’m still loopy from the sedatives used for my spinal procedure earlier in the afternoon, and even that doesn’t help. :whacky:

I noticed that the Dimond brother on the PDF, had OSB after his name. I am guessing that since this isn’t a real monastery, he’s likely not a true member of the order of St Benedict either. Something tells me there is a lot of rule violating (a la St Benedict’s) going on in the process of creating the contents of that website. Can’t imagine the Benedictine Rule would support the actions of the Dimond brothers.

 

[pablope]

Not sure then, might have put a “what is” or “how to pray…” in front of it then, now reading about the Dimons Bro’s and their “monastery” I know not to read anything by them, so lesson learned. And I actually bought St. Faustina’s diary today so I won’t be ignorant on the matter!

Just ran into these debate between Robert Sungenis vs Peter Dimond…i guess he is one of the Dimond brothers…

catholicintl.com/index.php/component/content/article/73-vatican/358-robert-sungenis-vs-bro-peter-dimond

 

[Jaypeeto4]

Hi puzzleannie,
MHFM, the Dimond Bros website, is not strictly speaking, “anti-Catholic,” at least in it’s basic doctrines. They are, however, militantly sedevacantist, insisting that all popes after Pius the 12th, have been heretics and apostates, including our dear Benedict XVI.
They also hold to an exclusivist and over-rigid interpretation of
Outside The Church There is No Salvation and an extremely rigid interpretation of the strict necessity of water baptism.
They are not open to reasoning, and if you contact them and offer a defense of anything, they will reply to you with a hostile email pouncing all over you. This happened to me a few years ago.
I pray that they will see the error of their ways, reject their sedevacantism,
and return to the Catholic and papal fold.

Jaypeeto4

 

[JReducation]

Hi puzzleannie,
MHFM, the Dimond Bros website, is not strictly speaking, “anti-Catholic,” at least in it’s basic doctrines. They are, however, militantly sedevacantist, insisting that all popes after Pius the 12th, have been heretics and apostates, including our dear Benedict XVI.
They also hold to an exclusivist and over-rigid interpretation of
Outside The Church There is No Salvation and an extremely rigid interpretation of the strict necessity of water baptism.They are not open to reasoning, and if you contact them and offer a defense of anything, they will reply to you with a hostile email pouncing all over you. This happened to me a few years ago.
I pray that they will see the error of their ways, reject their sedevacantism,
and return to the Catholic and papal fold.

Jaypeeto4

In his rule for secular men and women Francis of Assisi describes Catholics as:

1. Unquestioning obedience to the pope and the local bishop
2. Loving and welcoming of all men and people of all faiths
3. Adverse to argumentation
4. Trusting in the Father’s love and mercy for all men
5. Kind in treatment and speech when dealing with others

He later imposed the same principles on us, the religious. All of the underlined above sound very anti-Catholic to me. Either they’re right and Francis of Assisi is wrong or the other way around. I’ll take my chances with Francis of Assisi.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ESMDHokie77]

I just got a friend request on youtube by an active sedevacantist with links to MHFM and many anti Catholic videos and I told them I had to decline since I disagree with sedevacantism… and got back a short and sharp response chiding me.

 

[JReducation]

I just got a friend request on youtube by an active sedevacantist with links to MHFM and many anti Catholic videos and I told them I had to decline since I disagree with sedevacantism… and got back a short and sharp response chiding me.

Well, you now have one less friend. However, remember what the great and little saints have always modeled for us. Just because someone is not your friend, does not mean that you cannot be a friend to them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Sirach2]

Re the allegation of communion in the hand, Church Militant gave excellent answers to the deceits presented by MHFM. I happened to be reading in the Diary this weekend and found some of the references, and as you can guess, they are utterly distorted from the actual wording. Since you have bought the book, OP, these are the actual chapters so you can look them up for yourself.

1676 Jesus said to me, Be at peace; I am with you. Tired, I fell asleep. In the evening, the sister [Sister David] who was to look after me came and said, “Tomorrow you will not receive the Lord Jesus, Sister, because you are very tired; later on, we shall see.” This hurt me very much, but I said with great calmness, “Very well,” and, resigning myself totally to the will of the Lord, I tried to sleep. In the morning, I made my meditation and prepared for Holy Communion, even though I was not to receive the Lord Jesus. When my love and desire had reached a high degree, I saw at my bedside a Seraph, who gave me Holy Communion, saying these words: “Behold the Lord of Angels.” When I received the Lord, my spirit was drowned in the love of God and in amazement. This was repeated for thirteen days, although I was never sure he would bring me Holy Communion the next day. Yet, I put my trust completely in the goodness of God, but did not even dare to think that I would receive Holy Communion in this way on the following day.

1677 Once, when a certain doubt rose within me shortly before Holy Communion, the Seraph with the Lord Jesus stood before me again. I asked the Lord Jesus, and not receiving an answer, I said to the Seraph, “Could you perhaps hear my confession?” And he answered me, “No spirit in heaven has that power.” And at that moment, the Sacred Host rested on my lips.

346 December 24, 1934. The Vigil of Christmas. During the morning Mass, I felt the closeness of God. Though I was hardly aware of it, my spirit was drowned in God. Suddenly, I heard these words:**You are My delightful dwelling place; My Spirit rests in you. **After these words, I felt the Lord looking into the depths of my heart; and seeing my misery, I humbled myself in spirit and admired the immense mercy of God, that the Most High Lord would approach such misery.

Do you see anything amiss in Our Lord saying this to Faustina? We find His similar words in the scriptures, “And my delight is to be with the children of men (Prov. 8:31)

 

[Sirach2]

North Texan, if you’re still following this thread, I read the link and saw that I addressed another area of the Diary, rather not the ones on page 23 and 89 that were in the link. Nevertheless, on neither of these two pages did St. Faustina “receive” holy communion, as an advocate of communion in the hand. The full text was deliberately omitted to cause deception.

160. When I was about to receive Holy Communion, a second Host fell onto the priest’s sleeve, and I did not know which host I was to receive. After I had hesitated for a moment, the priest made an impatient gesture with his hand to tell me I should receive the Host. When I took the Host he gave me, the other one fell onto my hands. The priest went along the altar rail to distribute Communion, and I held the Lord Jesus in my hands all that time. When the priest approached me again, I** raised the Host for him to put it back into the chalice**, because when I had first received Jesus I could not speak before consuming the Host, and so could not tell him that the other had fallen. [She could not speak because she had received the **first host on her tongue.]

We find the same deception on page 23, article 44. She did not communicate, but placed the host in the tabernacle. So the allegation was false.

 

[1cor719]

The article says at the bottom of page 2: “The specific direction given to Sister Faustina for the Divine Mercy Devotion to be prayed on the beads of the Rosary is clearly, we believe, the Devil’s substitute for the Rosary.”

Its very wrong to say that praying the chaplet somehow compromises praying the rosary. It’s a similar argument form to saying that asking for Mary and the saints’ intercession compromises prayer to God. The prayer life of Christians can be, and I would say should be, diverse. After all, prayer is something that should occupy much of our time each day and using different devotions and asking for the intercession of saints help us to make every part of the Christian faith become parts of our lives. Praying the sorrowful mysteries followed by the chaplet is one of the best ways of praying that I have found.

 

[ufamtobie]

I know this probably not the best place to post this, but at the expense of not having to open a whole new thread I fugured I would post here.

My question is, is the Chaplet of Divine Mercy “evil”? if you go to this link and read it, it seems that some strange things were said to St. Faustina.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/41_Dmercy.pdf

Hi Northtexan,

Does this sound evil: It begins with the sign of the Cross, The Our Father, Hail Mary, I the Apostle’s Creed. Then on the big bead of the Rosary: Eternal Father, I offer you the Body and Blood Soul and Divinity of your dearly Beloved Son our Lord Jesus Christ in atonement for our sins and the sins of the whole world. (the smaller beads) For the sake of His sorrowful Passion have Mercy on us and on the whole world. (it ends with 3X) Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One. Have Mercy on us and on the whole world.

Northtexan, would satan recite the above Mercy Chaplet? The answer is plain and simple he would never recite it because it is “not evil” But Holy.

Northtexan don’t let the devil distract you from coming HOME!

Ufam Tobie

 

[JReducation]

Hi Northtexan,

Does this sound evil: It begins with the sign of the Cross, The Our Father, Hail Mary, I the Apostle’s Creed. Then on the big bead of the Rosary: Eternal Father, I offer you the Body and Blood Soul and Divinity of your dearly Beloved Son our Lord Jesus Christ in atonement for our sins and the sins of the whole world. (the smaller beads) For the sake of His sorrowful Passion have Mercy on us and on the whole world. (it ends with 3X) Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One. Have Mercy on us and on the whole world.

Northtexan, would satan recite the above Mercy Chaplet? The answer is plain and simple he would never recite it because it is “not evil” But Holy.

Northtexan don’t let the devil distract you from coming HOME!

Ufam Tobie

Good gried, how could this be evil? This is the mystery of redemption.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[ThePAVEL_PETKOV]

England, insert innocent as me in prison and make them authority as long as they are guilty and makes the pleaded not guilty criminals who are not in actually and as they distort full rights as does not give them their work and social aid and finally person, such as me go from a prison as innocent , because they failed to make me come guilty and they refuse to me pay compensation and to me give work as restrictions for me to be dropped, which are placed on the Bulgarians and Romanians.
This state is consider a terrorist number / 1 / one in Europe.
Why I say England terrorist is it because it introduces innocent as me in prison and participate in Attacks .

The attention of administrators !!!

Many please do not delete the information about London.
I take full responsibility for their inventory and England will wait on what basis would I bring to justice, to expose the fact that their country.
I am writing this because it is true, and if they condemn me for what is not fair, but I’ll risk just have no other choice.
What I write and will continue to describe the country and then because I want to know how in the world England violates human rights.

For more information related to this please visit the websites which are as follows:

profile.live.com/cid-652b5464e0cf9b93/

Or go to google.com and type in search INFO LONDON PAVEL PETKOV

I know this probably not the best place to post this, but at the expense of not having to open a whole new thread I fugured I would post here.

My question is, is the Chaplet of Divine Mercy “evil”? if you go to this link and read it, it seems that some strange things were said to St. Faustina.

mostholyfamilymonastery.com/41_Dmercy.pdf

 

[kalbertone]

You don^t have to look at the Dimond Brothers to find criticism of the so called Divine Mercy.As theologians point out offering to the Eternal Father the divinity of Christ for repairition of sin is theologically impossible.Also claims of the Eucharist flying out of the Tabernacle up to 3x seems ridiculous.As well as Faustina after recieving the Eucharist saying to Christ make me into a host & “Christ” responds you are a host,meaning you are the Blessed Sacrament to faustina.Many in her convent was uncomfortable with her bizarre behaviour & she couldn^t even write(thogh not her fault due to lack of education).She put down things phonetically which resulted in a unclear,sloppy mess. She suffered tuberculosis which can effect the brain,hence what appears to be pathological self delusion.The ban got lifted because one man who became Pope JPII was from that area in Poland.This is from a Catholic who has nothing to do with any pre Vatican II sect. Remember a approval of a private revellation does not mean its genuine or garantees the truth of the facts.None such things are binding to believe.Its superstitious to redeem at full face value any private revelation thats private.You gotta discern if you take interest in one.Having said that,theres nothing wrong with prayer(devine mercy chaplet or not) but don^t get too caught up in something that is private,hidden & obscue