SPLIT: MHFM attacks the Divine Mercy Devotion!?

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Has anyone actually read the things that Sr. Faustina said her in book??

I’m sorry but it’s not of God at all and should be avoided. It was actually on the forbibben book list until JPII took it off. I have read some of the things inside this book and it’s beyond disturbing.

MHFM is trying to show people that post Vatican II church isn’t the True Catholic Church. MHFM is not anti-Catholic!

Baptism of Desire and Invincible Ignorance = that there is Salvation Outside the Church and that CANNOT be when it is a DOGMA that Outside the Catholic Church there is NO Salvation.

Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra:
“There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which
nobody AT ALL is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice.”

Pope Gregory XVI, Summo Iugiter Studio, May 27, 1832, on no salvation outside
the Church: “Finally some of these misguided people attempt to persuade
themselves and others that men are not saved only in the Catholic religion, but
that even heretics may attain eternal life… You know how zealously Our
predecessors taught that article of faith which these dare to deny, namely the
necessity of the Catholic faith and of unity for salvation… Omitting other
appropriate passages which are almost numberless in the writings of the Fathers, We
shall praise St. Gregory the Great who expressly testifies that THIS IS INDEED
THE TEACHING OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. He says: ‘The holy universal
Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that
all who are outside of her will not be saved.’ Official acts of the Church proclaim
the same DOGMA. Thus, in the decree on faith which Innocent III published
with the synod of Lateran IV, these things are written: ‘There is one universal
Church of all the faithful outside of which no one is saved.’ Finally the same
dogma is also expressly mentioned in the profession of faith proposed by the
Apostolic See, not only that which all Latin churches use, but also that which…
other Eastern Catholics use. We did not mention these selected testimonies
because We thought you were ignorant of that article of faith and in need of
Our instruction. Far be it from Us to have such an absurd and insulting
suspicion about you. But We are so concerned about this serious and well
known DOGMA, which has been attacked with such remarkable audacity, that
We could not restrain Our pen from reinforcing this truth with many
testimonies.”

I suggest all those that think post Vatican II is Catholic to read the writings of the Popes prior to. Actually if you think MHFM is Anti-Catholic, you should email them and debate them about it. You will be refuted and shutdown because they have the TRUTH on their side. Karl Keating posted on another thread about these guys and instead of attacking their information he attacked them as a person. I dare ANYONE to debate them.
 
Clearly, you entered this discussion with a very biased angry agenda.
MHFM is trying to show people that post Vatican II church isn’t the True Catholic Church.
Catholics will see through your arguments instantly and chuck it off as misinformed nonsense, obvious error, and proselytization in accord with MHFM’s sedevacantism.

Nice try, OP.
 
Go ahead!
Argue those infallible statements by Pope Innocent III and Pope Gregory XVI.

Argue the sedevacantists position?

I would love to hear your thoughts.
 
My point exactly you are ignoring the Truth and can’t truly defend the position of the Vatican II sect.

None of my comments are out of anger but more frustration because like you most “Catholics” are :sleep: and unaware of what is going on. They would rather be comfortably alseep.

Out of charity I truly hope you wake up.
 
My point exactly you are ignoring the Truth and can’t truly defend the position of the Vatican II sect.

None of my comments are out of anger but more frustration because like you most “Catholics” are :sleep: and unaware of what is going on. They would rather be comfortably alseep.

Out of charity I truly hope you wake up.
I guess obedience isn’t high on your list of dogma. Pick and choose, pick and choose. You reject VII (in which the Church came to dogmatic conclusions using the Biblical and Traditional formula for counsels), and Tradition requires you be obedient to these dogmatic findings, yet you claim you are an advocate of dogma? You realize you are a schismatic, right?
 
Has anyone actually read the things that Sr. Faustina said her in book??
Yes I did.
I’m sorry but it’s not of God at all and should be avoided.
By whose authority do you claim that it’s not of God?
It was actually on the forbibben book list until JPII took it off.
Many books were on the forbidden list and later taken off. Francis of Osuna’s Third Spiritual Alphabet was on the forbidden list and ordered to be burned. We’re very fortunate that St. Teresa of Avila read it before she burned it. It was his writings that inspired her. A century later, the book became required reading at every pontifical university’s school of theology.
I have read some of the things inside this book and it’s beyond disturbing.
If it disturbs you, don’t read it. Let the rest of us read it.
MHFM is trying to show people that post Vatican II church isn’t the True Catholic Church. MHFM is not anti-Catholic!
On whose authority?
Baptism of Desire and Invincible Ignorance = that there is Salvation Outside the Church and that CANNOT be when it is a DOGMA that Outside the Catholic Church there is NO Salvation.
That’s not what they mean at all.
Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, Constitution 1, 1215, ex cathedra:
“There is indeed one universal Church of the faithful, outside of which
nobody AT ALL is saved, in which Jesus Christ is both priest and sacrifice.”
He never made this an Ex Cathedra statement. The only doctrinal Ex Cathedra statements made in 2,000 year Church history are the Immaculate Conception and the Assumption. This was a statement made by the Council itself.
Pope Gregory XVI, Summo Iugiter Studio, May 27, 1832, on no salvation outside
the Church: “Finally some of these misguided people attempt to persuade
themselves and others that men are not saved only in the Catholic religion, but
that even heretics may attain eternal life… ”
snipped for space.

He’s writing about heretics. Someone who is born outside of the Catholic Church is not a heretic. To be a heretic, you first have to be a Catholic. The founders of Protestantism were heretics, not their descendants.
I suggest all those that think post Vatican II is Catholic to read the writings of the Popes prior to.
Thank you for the advise. There is nothing in Vatican II that is contrary to what was always taught and believed by the Church. There are new situations to which Vatican II speaks. Vatican II changed no dogmas, denied no dogmas and defined no dogmas. I focused on how to present what the Church believes to the modern world.
Actually if you think MHFM is Anti-Catholic, you should email them and debate them about it. You will be refuted and shutdown because they have the TRUTH on their side.
On whose authority?
Karl Keating posted on another thread about these guys and instead of attacking their information he attacked them as a person. I dare ANYONE to debate them.
If I were 14 years old and still on a school playground, I might take you up on the dare. Since I’m older and wiser, I’ll pass it up. However, I would suggest one thing. I suggest that you check to see if the brothers are MHFM have apostolic succession. If so, which one is the successor of Peter.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
I guess obedience isn’t high on your list of dogma. Pick and choose, pick and choose. You reject VII (in which the Church came to dogmatic conclusions using the Biblical and Traditional formula for counsels), and Tradition requires you be obedient to these dogmatic findings, yet you claim you are an advocate of dogma? You realize you are a schismatic, right?
What you fail to realize is I do have obedience to all the legitimate successors of Peter.

Mortalium Animos - Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.

If you think the last five popes are legit there lies your issue. Do you know there have been antipopes in the history of the church?

Vatican II CANNOT and is not dogmatic becasue it contradicts already declared Dogmatic teaching…

Pope Pius IX, First Vatican Council, Sess. 3, Chap. 2 on
Revelation, 1870, ex cathedra: “Hence, also, that understanding
of its sacred dogmas must be perpetually retained, which
Holy Mother Church has once declared; and there must never
be a recession from that meaning under the specious name of
a deeper understanding.”

All past five men that claimed the papacy spit on the name of Jesus Christ.
quick examples

John XXIII- Pacem in terris #14, April 11, 1963: “Also among man’s rights is that of being able to worship God in accordance with the right dictates of his own conscience, and to profess his religion both in private and in public.” (HERESY)

Paul VI- June 27, 1973: “…everything must change, everything must
progress. Evolution seems to be the law that brings liberation. There must be a great
deal that is true and good in this mentality (HERESY)

Condemned by Pope Pius X
Pope Pius X, Pascendi (# 26), Sept. 8, 1907, explaining the doctrine of the Modernists: “To the laws of evolution everything is subject – dogma, Church, worship, the Books we revere as sacred, even faith itself"

John Paul I-“The echo of its daily life gives witness that, despite all obstacles, it (the Church) lives in the heart of men, even those who do not share its truth or accept its message.” (HERESY)

John Paul II (where do I begin!)-May 6, 1984 May I address a particular greeting to the members of the Buddhist tradition as they prepare to celebrate the festivity of the Coming of the Lord Buddha? May your rejoicing be complete and your joy fulfilled." (HERESY)
(He is telling them to rejoice for the DEVIL)

God and the World, 2000, p. 209: “It is of course possible to read the Old Testament so that it is not directed toward Christ; it does not point quite unequivocally to Christ. And if Jews cannot see the promises as being fulfilled in him, this is not just ill will on their part, but genuinely because of the obscurity of the texts… There are perfectly good reasons, then, for denying that the Old Testament refers to Christ and for saying, No, that is not what he said. And there are also good reasons for referring it to him – that is what the dispute between Jews and Christians is about.” (HERESY)
 
Who gives you the authority to say it is of God, JP II???

You are COMPLETELY wrong! Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church. So you are telling me that there are only TWO dogmas of the Church??

Pope Pius IX, Vatican I, Sess. III, Chap. 3, ex cathedra: “Further, by divine and
Catholic faith, all those things must be believed which are contained in the
written word of God and in tradition, and those which are proposed by the
Church, either in a solemn pronouncement or in her ordinary and universal
teaching power, to be believed as divinely revealed.”

Outside the Church there is no Salvation is a dogma

Oh but it doesn’t mean what it is saying. Look if Outside the church there is No Salvation only pertains to those who know better. Please tell me why that wasn’t said? Popes for centuries reiterated that dogma time and time again and NEVER said for those who know better!

So Council of Trent and Florence were fallible councils?
 
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