(SPLIT) Mike Gendron's "Who Holds the Keys?"

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***Please stay on topic.

“Who Holds the Keys?”***
 
I’ve been ‘busy’ with a ‘Split’ – so – a question – What is the Magisterium that it would have perfect knowledge of all Scripture? At times we don’t ‘understand Scripture’ because it doesn’t support what ‘we’ Want to do and lots of passages Can be confusing. The book of Revelation is a good example / as are parts of Daniel / Isaiah, etc. And theologians, etc don’t agree on the timing of some up-coming events / the rapture / the 7yr- tribulation As well as some don’t believe in a literal 24-hr day , 6 day interpretation of Genesis creation. They’re determined it was happening over a day = 1,000 yrs. Theistic evolution. God created and then 'nature do ‘it’s thing’.
The comment was being made – wondering where I got My ‘concepts’ of Scripture from? That I sound like a ‘church of one, myself’ – well – every once in a while there’s others on here who agree somewhat with what I’m saying. So – I’m following Scripture as well as what I grew up with = Scripture. I might add – No one on here or on this earth is infallible. Everyone in this world is capable of making errors in judgement/ interpretation. Everyone. 🙂
 
crochet_lady said:
-]I’ve been ‘busy’ with a ‘Split’ – so – a question – What is the Magisterium that it would have perfect knowledge of all Scripture? At times we don’t ‘understand Scripture’ because it doesn’t support what ‘we’ Want to do and lots of passages Can be confusing. The book of Revelation is a good example / as are parts of Daniel / Isaiah, etc. And theologians, etc don’t agree on the timing of some up-coming events / the rapture / the 7yr- tribulation As well as some don’t believe in a literal 24-hr day , 6 day interpretation of Genesis creation. They’re determined it was happening over a day = 1,000 yrs. Theistic evolution. God created and then 'nature do ‘it’s thing’. /-]
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All off topic CL and irrelevant to this discussion.
The comment was being made – wondering where I got My ‘concepts’ of Scripture from? That I sound like a ‘church of one, myself’ – well – every once in a while there’s others on here who agree somewhat with what I’m saying. So – I’m following Scripture as well as what I grew up with = Scripture. I might add –
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Well, being a Baptist, I suppose you’re familiar with the saying that even a blind squirrel can eventually find a nut, right? Just because you may be correct in a few things doesn’t mean that you are in all you believe and practice…especially since you have no one in authority to correct you. If Christ did not establish an infallible authority in His church then all Christianity is a farce since objective truth cannot be known. It just doesn’t work…
No one on here or on this earth is infallible. Everyone in this world is capable of making errors in judgement/ interpretation. Everyone. 🙂
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In a personal sense aside from faith and morals that is true, but you forget some very important things from the Word of God.***
Matthew 19:26 …“With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

John 16: [13] When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

Matthew 28: [19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age."***
 
Right. Back on topic. Please disregard my question about ordination, crochet lady.

However, I have a new one: how would you counter the argument that Christ was paralleling his words in Matthew 16 with Isaiah 22, a reference every Jew of that time would have instantly recognized?
 
since Jesus gave the keys to peter, i am of the position that whoever peter gave the keys to held them after peter’s death and that this progression of passing the keys on to a successor has continued to the present day.

currently, the only person in the world with a claim to being peter’s successor is pope francis.

ergo, right now, francis holds the keys.

now, can others come up with different positions? i suppose. in fact, i would be very interested in reading about how someone other than pope francis holds the keys.

more likely, there will be conjecture about how the keys were lost.
 
The Catholic Church magisterium when it comes to the actual exegesis of Scripture, something that could be a matter of faith and morals, in regard to 99% of the Bible the Church has not commented on officially on what a passage does or does not mean. When the Church has spoken on a particular verse, most often it has done so in a negative manor, that is rejecting certain interpretations as false because they constitute a threat to faith and morals.
 
crochet_lady said:
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The comment was being made -- wondering where I got My 'concepts' of Scripture from?  That I sound like a 'church of one, myself'  -- well -- every once in a while there's others on here who agree somewhat with what I'm saying.  So -- I'm following Scripture as well as what I grew up with = Scripture.  I might add -- No one on here or on this earth is infallible.  Everyone in this world is  capable of making errors in judgement/ interpretation.  Everyone.  :)
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Lets take a look at who the BIBLE what even you admit is infallible, tells us about who to go to when you your brother sins against you.
Matthew 18:15-17:
“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every word may be confirmed by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Now the question, which church? There are over 33,000 denominations, that can’t agree on just about anything. You can find some “Christian” Church somewhere that will say that just about ANYTHING is OK. Here is a hint, for over 1,000 years there was only one Church. The same Church that the Bible in versus says in 1 Timothy 3:15 is the “if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the** pillar and bulwark of the truth**.” The Catholic Church.

The bible says if we disagree to go to the Church. And for 1,000 years there was only ONE Church. The Church he promised he would be will till the end of time. See Matthew 28:20. Are you telling me that the Jesus lied, that he left the Church?
 
This is just my own experience from being a Protestant for 40 plus years: Everything I knew of God and Scripture and the meaning of all that goes with it came from various sources. My parents (mom mostly), other Christians I crossed paths with, books I read, televagelists, reading the Bible myself and adopting my own personal interpretation, etc … and the preacher too but not with authority like we get from the priesthood.

No central authority aside from the Holy Spirit. I, like many, had my own personal Jesus. My own personal theology. Salad bar theology. If I start talking religion with family I get an infinite number of “personal theologies”.

God in his infinite Wisdom, choose one central figure to build his Church upon because he knows mankind’s limitations - he is the Creator. He knows us better than we know ourselves. I work in healthcare. I am not a doctor. I run diagnostic test on ppl and have done it long enough that I can diagnose a condition I see in the results. I cannot tell the patient what I see because only the doc has that AUTHORITY from the governing bodies to do so. I as well as the patient have to submit to the docs authority. No insurance co is gonna pay for treatment based on what I think - even if I’m right. As a Protestant I did not submit myself to the Church God gave authority to over 2000 yrs ago. I see it this way when I discuss theology with family. They still operate under their own assumed authority and they are wrong even if they get it right. Not an easy thing to tell to someone’s face. I had to be “changed” from the inside out by the Holy Spirit to convert. I had a change of heart. Not by my own doing but it was Him who revealed the Truth to me thru those in His Church. Once I knew the truth I had no choice but to leave behind what I had known my whole life. Stubborn pride has to give way for any of us to reject who we are and to admit we are wrong.

I pray those here who disagree with the Church that God’s Truth be known. Jesus commanded us to submit to authority - it is in black and white for those of you who wont believe something unless they see it with their own eyes.
 
👍 Mr Clean, what a wonderful testimony. We all have a conversion story, but your is wonderful! Thanks for sharing.
 
Thanks for you conversion story and also for your thoughts as they I think are spot on.
 
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