SPLIT: Musical instruments at Mass

[Catholicben]

I’m sure you’re familiar with this section of the GIRM:

While the organ is to be accorded pride of place, other wind, stringed, or percussion instruments may be used in liturgical services in the diocese of The United States of America, according to longstanding local usage, provided they are truly apt for sacred use or can be rendered apt.

This is specific to this particular situation. As I’ve previously stated, when used properly guitars (and drums of the proper type) can be acceptable for Mass.

In my mind drums (percussion) means things like timpani, which when used with a brass quintet (2 trumpets, French Horn, Trombone, Tuba) is AMAZING (with an organ and choir of course). To see a fine example, step in to Christmas or Easter Mass in Downtown Madison(WI) at St. Patrick’s. It is AWESOME! Not to even mention the Bishop being there.

 

[tassitus]

After reading through this entire thread, and with my parish recently starting up what now appears to be a Teen Life-type Sunday evening Mass (keyboard, guitar, drums at times), I would like to give a very, very warm thank you to benedictgal for her patience, her knowledge, and her obvious love for the wonderful music and musical tradition of our Catholic Church.

Peace all.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

When the organ was brought into the Church there was great consternation. A lot of people hated it. When we tried to bring Gregorian Chant into our Office a lot of the Friars (especially the younger ones) thought it was a joke. We have to be mindful of those gathered. (Personally I find music a distraction.)

 

[AnneMarie7]

I hope we’re all remembering that God meets each of us where we are. There are some people we’re reaching out to who simply WILL NOT respond to “Gregorian Chant”.
We do NOT compromise the message of Jesus Christ in our music, but we don’t have to bore them to death either…let’s make sure we’re not adhering to the letter of the law at the expense of the spirit of the law. Music at public liturgy has a purpose–to invite the congregation into a spirit of Worship of God. It can be effective or ineffective depending on the character of our congregations. In my parish, we have a “traditional crowd” for whom we play the pipe organ and hymns that I find so boring it’s hard not to yawn while I sing–but THOSE beautiful people SING those songs. That’s what it’s all about…I have a “contemporary crowd” for whom we liven things up a bit, and the “teen focus” for whom we play like a YOUNG David–inviting them from WHERE THEY ARE into full and engaged participation in the Liturgy. They are ATTENTIVE to God’s word from the BOOK and from our instruments…
I have learned a lot from this conversation and will take and apply it—I need to change some things about what I do and how I do it—just am not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Thank you all for helping me learn.

 

[chriso]

What a great topic! Thanks for all the info to absorb!

 

[Joseph629]

In many parishes I see musicians that have limited training and talent, but their hearts are good and they are doing the best they can.

Last night I attended our weekly choir rehearsal. One and a half (or more sometimes) hours. Our selections last night: from composers Vivaldi, Mozart, Ronan and Palestrina. I would bet that most (in this forum) would have found it beautiful. Why? Not so much because of who the composers are, but because of the ‘quality’ and capability of the singers. I agree with ‘iblessem’, -too many singers and musicians in parishes are limited to their training and talent.

When I was young, -starting in pre-Vatican2 days-, choir members had to audition to sing in the choir for Mass. In so many areas of our cultural and social affairs, we attend functions that for the most part require that participants are somewhat gifted and therefore qualify to perform. Why is it that for the most important function in our life -the Mass-, we drop our standards to levels sometimes considered unbearable to listen to?

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Last night I attended our weekly choir rehearsal. One and a half (or more sometimes) hours. Our selections last night: from composers Vivaldi, Mozart, Ronan and Palestrina. I would bet that most (in this forum) would have found it beautiful. Why? Not so much because of who the composers are, but because of the ‘quality’ and capability of the singers. I agree with ‘iblessem’, -too many singers and musicians in parishes are limited to their training and talent.

When I was young, -starting in pre-Vatican2 days-, choir members had to audition to sing in the choir for Mass. In so many areas of our cultural and social affairs, we attend functions that for the most part require that participants are somewhat gifted and therefore qualify to perform. Why is it that for the most important function in our life -the Mass-, we drop our standards to levels sometimes considered unbearable to listen to?

To the pure of heart even the sound of braying of the donkey glorifies God.

 

[moreorless]

Music at public liturgy has a purpose–to invite the congregation into a spirit of Worship of God. It can be effective or ineffective depending on the character of our congregations.

I don’t mean to split hairs, but I don’t think this is quite correct. The purpose of music at Mass is not "to invite the congregation into a spirit of Worship of God. Quite frankly, I’m not sure what that even means.

Sacrosanctum Concilium 112 says: “Therefore sacred music is to be considered the more holy in proportion as it is more closely connected with the liturgical action, whether it adds delight to prayer, fosters unity of minds, or confers greater solemnity upon the sacred rites.”

What is sacred is sacred – it does not matter what is the “character of our congregations.” Music either confers “greater solemnity upon the sacred rites” or it doesn’t; it doesn’t matter who is in the congregation. That is relativism.

 

[moreorless]

There are some people we’re reaching out to who simply WILL NOT respond to “Gregorian Chant”.

Should we take this to mean that you have actually tried to get people to respond to Chant? Or are you making an assumption?

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

On long walks in the countryside, to be surrounded by the sound of insects and birds, or rippling streams, or maybe the sound of the ocean, I wonder why does man have the assumption he can improve on it?

 

[chriso]

On long walks in the countryside, to be surrounded by the sound of insects and birds, or rippling streams, or maybe the sound of the ocean, I wonder why does man have the assumption he can improve on it?

I dont know about “improve on it” but could it be that the human voice is any less? Surely the voices God created to sing his praises evermore with the choirs of angels is a thing of great beauty?

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

I dont know about “improve on it” but could it be that the human voice is any less? Surely the voices God created to sing his praises evermore with the choirs of angels is a thing of great beauty?

And then it stands a risk of becoming a performance art. With us in the stalls and them up there performing their hearts out. “Them & us” - Right against V2 principle.
No longer a gathering around but a competing with. I run a radio show, put on Mozart, the switchboard lights up, people love it. Put on Techno/House the switchboard lights up, people love it. What’s my point? There’s no one kind of music that’s going to please everyone. You’ll gain some, lose others. It’s about listening and responding to the audience, or those gathered, and being flexible.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

And then it stands a risk of becoming a performance art. With us in the stalls and them up there performing their hearts out. “Them & us” - Right against V2 principle.
No longer a gathering around but a competing with. I run a radio show, put on Mozart, the switchboard lights up, people love it. Put on Techno/House the switchboard lights up, people love it. What’s my point? There’s no one kind of music that’s going to please everyone. You’ll gain some, lose others. It’s about listening and responding to the audience, or those gathered, and being flexible.

This is completely right. THe challenge of any music director is to find something that can speak to everyone, or compomise and find a few different styles people can relate to.

I tell you the truth, when you have a shockingly HIGH number of people who leave the church between the ages of 18 and 30 and people refuse to change or allow flexibility in the music to even TRY to accomidate the tastes of a younger generation, that is a serious - and deadly - flaw.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

The way we structured our liturgical music:
8 a.m. No music
10 a.m. Family orientated, generic music
5 p.m. Youth orientated, contemporary style

Music effects and has importance to individuals in different ways. People stay or stop attending Mass for many reasons, perhaps rhythm is basic whether it be ritual, or sound, or both. Liturgy should be part of life’s meaning, expression and purpose.
If the music is a distraction and there is other content in the Liturgy which a person considers important he will stay (I stayed).
Personally I find compromise a loose-loose result, an avoidance of issues, eventually they have to be confronted.

 

[chriso]

And then it stands a risk of becoming a performance art. With us in the stalls and them up there performing their hearts out. “Them & us” - Right against V2 principle.
No longer a gathering around but a competing with. I run a radio show, put on Mozart, the switchboard lights up, people love it. Put on Techno/House the switchboard lights up, people love it. What’s my point? There’s no one kind of music that’s going to please everyone. You’ll gain some, lose others. It’s about listening and responding to the audience, or those gathered, and being flexible.

So very true… and truth be known, I’ve enountered this phenomenon from both ends of the spectrum. Rigid choir masters convinced that none of us should be allowed to join our “untrained” voices with their “special ones”… and new age / folk musicians thinking we all have surely been deprived for all the rest of the week, not to have been able to hear the sweet sounds from their lips alone…

It is important I think, that one constantly strive to be worthy, to please God and the fellow worshipers, to not let it become about power or self, and that we be used as instruments in Gods hand and plan to being each other closer to him and closer to one another.

 

[chriso]

Drum kits and electric guitars are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only.

Could you please show me where it is clearly stated that “Drum kits and electric guitars are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only”? It sounds a lot like someones interpretation rather than a published definition, but if there truly is a published and authoritive definition specifically stating this I’d sure like to be able to find it.

Thanks, Chris

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Could you please show me where it is clearly stated that “Drum kits and electric guitars are, by common opinion and use, suitable for secular music only”? It sounds a lot like someones interpretation rather than a published definition, but if there truly is a published and authoritive definition specifically stating this I’d sure like to be able to find it.

Thanks, Chris

I also would be interested in seeing such a document, as many said the same thing (almost verbatum) when people were trying to get those darn “secular” organs in the church doors.

 

[chriso]

However, the Church does give us a clue, a very solid clue:
I do not think that anyone can say, with a straight face, that electric guitars and drum kits’ main usage is not secular. That is the huge clue here. These are instruments whose common usage is for secular music only. I don’t think it’s a stretch to state that the Holy See ever envisioned that these kind of instruments would worm their way into the Mass. Unfortunately, a lot of this is due to a misinterpretation of what the documents that resulted from the Council actually said.

I guess we’ll have to wait and see what they were actually referring to in this statement you think is such a significant clue. Like so many other respondents here, I will truly adhere to the final decision when it is made avaialable to us.

 

[Natural_Family]

We’re very blessed to be part of a great choir run by a very gifted organist. The standard is high and we sing some very beautiful music from the Church’s treasury, but at the same time people of varying ages, musical experience and skill are welcomed. Those who have more ability and/or experience (including music teachers and professional musicians) support, encourage and lead the rest. A beautiful harmony is the result with no one voice dominating and no microphone necessary. (We’re also blessed to have a choir loft and the Church has great acoustics, so the congregation feels supported to sing, but we’re not on show producing a performance). This enables the focus at Mass to be on worship of God. The majority of members (over 80%) are under 25 and many families participate. It’s wonderful to experience what is possible when the priest permits the Church’s ideals to be put into practice.

 

[pnewton]

Something to consider is that drum kits and electric guitars are used in many churches as part of praise and worship groups. In fact, it is the mainstay of praise and non-denominational groups across the country which is the fast growing “denomination”. I am no fan of this fad, but it might serve as evidence that they are not only for secular use and dispel this common opinion.