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Is that the best you can do? Just follow the Pope.
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I’ve seen very ignorant or intentionally mean people refer to the Islamic faith as Mohammedanism or the “Muslim/Moslem faith.” Their faith is Islam, their faithful are Muslims.
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I think in the end, it comes down to this. If the people who use “NO Mass” and “Novus Ordo Mass” didn’t do so because they wanted to intentionally demean the OF Mass, I think they would have stopped long ago, particularly after Pope Benedict XVI’s comments.
The fact that they continue to use the slurs and the fact they continue to struggle to justify their actions screams loud and clear that they have no intention of ceasing to denigrate the OF Mass in the manner we have been discussing.
In the end, clear as crystal…
The fact that they continue to use the slurs and the fact they continue to struggle to justify their actions screams loud and clear that they have no intention of ceasing to denigrate the OF Mass in the manner we have been discussing.
In the end, clear as crystal…
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Good analogy.
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No, you are wrong. The main Masses in the Latin Rite of the Church are the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form. The new/old stuff you are trying to preserve is specifically what the Pope wanted to avoid.
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Wow, you forgot everything but “OF.” You got the “NO”, the “EF” and the “TLM” but no “OF”, huh?Good grief! You guys are still going on about this?
Did it ever occur to you to give a person the benefit of the doubt? The accusations made against me? Wow! .
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I’ve never read the MP. In fact, I can’t even call it by its proper name because I can’t remember Latin terms that well. (I still get Novus and Nuvos Ordo mistaken at times) I very vaguely even know what it’s about or its purpose.
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Any terms I’ve used, I innocently got off of wdtprs.com. Because Fr. Z uses terms inter-changeably I thought OF stood for “Old Form” and when it comes to the TLM, I use whatever term comes to mind first.
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I didn’t distinguish between NO Mass and TLM, EF, or whatever you want to call it Mass because I use it to refer to two different churches (as in buildings) I attend in two different cities. It’s a lot shorter than typing something like at the NO Mass I attend in another church I go to…"
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I don’t like to get caught up in labels. Apparently because I believe in all of what the church teaches and, I prefer to go to Mass, not to have fun, but because it’s the most Holy Sacrifice, and because of the lack of Mass choices I have, I prefer to just drive to another city for the FSSP’s TLM because I know I’ll get that there, I’m a “Traditionalist.”No, I’m a Catholic, whose beliefs are orthodox with what the Catholic Church teaches.
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As far as separating the two and making them look like different rites,I don’t think you need my use of NO church to do that. Look at the churches who offer both Masses as it is. They do a fine job themselves making the two Masses look like different rites, most likely unintentionally.
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Just so you’re all aware, you’re making your uncharitable accusations towards someone who was a revert, and within less than three months actually returned to the church. Do you think maybe, just maybe, all these writings that the pope put out in the past few years I might not have got around to reading yet?
How convenient. In all sincerity, could your motivation to demean the OF Mass be any more clear?
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The Church doesn’t use “tlm” either, does it?
One area where progress has been made is that more and more fundamentalists will refer to the Tridentine Mass as the Extraordinary Form or the EF. I remember that label shocked quite a few when it was first used by the Pope.
One area where progress has been made is that more and more fundamentalists will refer to the Tridentine Mass as the Extraordinary Form or the EF. I remember that label shocked quite a few when it was first used by the Pope.
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Let us remember…that many use the terms they simply hear…(like for instance Love Divine in this thread seems to have just “picked up” various terms upon returning to the Church…and was just using what he heard) they do not know the correct term at the moment…etc…Let us presume that they are using what they know…without any negative slant…as have various Catholics whom I have heard use the term…though they I would say tend to go mostly to the Ordinary Form…unfortunately it got used in the past thinking it was the correct term…and has become somewhat of a habit…and others pick up on it.
Let us of course presume the best always
and of course let us promote the correct terms…
Let us of course presume the best always
and of course let us promote the correct terms…
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COLOS
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Wow, this is silly.
Reminds me of the “politically correct” arguments that go on.
Reminds me of the “politically correct” arguments that go on.
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Wow, you forgot everything but “OF.” You got the “NO”, the “EF” and the “TLM” but no “OF”, huh?
Seriously? My “motivation to demean the OF Mass”?
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That was my latest response, but I didn’t post it. Some NO Masses I’ve seen are reverent, others I’ve seen have done a good enough job demeaning themselves so that I don’t need to help any.
Seriously? My “motivation to demean the OF Mass”?
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That’s what I was thinking! I got tired of finding irreverenT ones (I know they’re out there, but not in my city), that I just started making the drive to attend an EF Mass done by the FSSP.That was my latest response, but I didn’t post it. Some NO Masses I’ve seen are reverent, others I’ve seen have done a good enough job demeaning themselves so that I don’t need to help any.
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Fr. Z. is NOTORIOUS in his prejudice against the Pauline Missal. Using him as your model puts you visibly into the same camp… even if you aren’t there, he’s polemically trying to drag people there. He makes many valid points, but there is a consistent subtext of opposition to the OF.
And MP stands for Moto Proprio - “It is Proper”. It’s a formal designation for any decree of the Roman Pontiff which describes proper terminology and procedures for the Roman Church. Each such document is an assertion that the contents are what is proper to be done.
MP Summorum Pontificum is the relevant document…
vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/letters/2007/documents/hf_ben-xvi_let_20070707_lettera-vescovi_en.html
Latin: vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/motu_proprio/documents/hf_ben-xvi_motu-proprio_20070707_summorum-pontificum_lt.html
English: ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/b16summorumpontificum.htm
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oneGODoneCHURCH
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That is your opinion. You are intiled to it. However, I am not wrong in mine. I love the Mass. It matters not to me if celebrated in the NO/OF, the TLM/EF, The domican, of Ambrosian Rite (all of which are Latin Rites), or one of the eastern Rites.
You are finding reason to be offended were in 99% of the time no offence is intended.
It is not a matter of tring to preserve Any thing as far as Terms go. They are what they are.
It appears to me that it is you and your dislike of the TLM that is comeing through as you are projecting that onto others when they use terms that have been in use for years by people that would never want to go to a TLM Mass and only go to NO Mass.
Also it was pionted out to me that I do not have the right not to be offened. Also that when something as trivial as this is offending me it is more than likely something wrong with me.
In any case I will be at my parish church worshipping God in the celebration of the Mass in occordance with the nuvos ordo of the Mass promligated By his Holiness Pope Paul VI.
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What I find sadder is that “Novus Ordo” are the only two Latin words many of those offended by the term know.
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Amen. Of course that could be why they are offened by them.
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Havard
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Really?
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