Split parish members

[fbl9]

My home parish is served by a priest who also serves 5 other parishes.
Our priest who is a Filipino, does mass once a month at our parish in his native tongue at the request of the Filipinos who have immigrated to a nearby town for work.
When he does so our church is over half full compared to the usual 15 locals.
Some of these locals are very upset at Father for catering to the Filipinos, they can speak English so why do we have to put up with “their” language which we can’t understand.
Some are even considering leaving for the fellowship of lies down the street. And it these people that have me the most upset.
What should I do sit back and let Father deal with it himself or speak up against these intolerant persons.
My country prides it’s self on it’s tolerance of ethnic differences. It encourages it’s citizens to hold onto their roots and even celebrates our differences.
To me it it’s utter stupidity to leave Christ because of this matter.
If one was to leave our parish for the fellowship of lies down the street because of their intolerance, they don’t deserve the name Canadian much less Christian.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

A little clarification please.
Do you only have one Mass a month, and is that Mass always in a language that a small minority speak & understand or are you saying that once a month the priest offers a Mass in a different language?

If it’s the case of one Mass a month being in a foreign language, for the benefit of some of the members of the community, I see no problem, except maybe with the people who are angry and threatening to leave.

If you indeed only have one Mass a month, that is not being done in the language of the majority of the people, I think it’s time for a charitable discussion with your pastor.

 

[fbl9]

A little clarification please.
Do you only have one Mass a month, and is that Mass always in a language that a small minority speak & understand or are you saying that once a month the priest offers a Mass in a different language?

If it’s the case of one Mass a month being in a foreign language, for the benefit of some of the members of the community, I see no problem, except maybe with the people who are angry and threatening to leave.

If you indeed only have one Mass a month, that is not being done in the language of the majority of the people, I think it’s time for a charitable discussion with your pastor.

We usually have Mass twice a month sometimes three times and one of these Masses would in a different language.
the other Sundays are lay presided liturgies.
When the Mass is offered in the different language the locals are the small minority.

 

[Elizium23]

Reason #3988757 for Summorum Pontificum.

In my fantasy world, SP is not even necessary for this purpose. If enough priests in polyglot parishes would have the cojones to replace one Mass with an OF in Latin, ad orientem with incense and chant, I wonder how many people he would attract from all over.

 

[Starrsmother]

My parish has a large number of Filipinos as well. We do have some celebrations consistent with their heritage–I know they just had a novena to a Saint named Luiz-something, who was a Filipino martyr that I am unfamiliar with. Additionally, there are occasionally masses with Filipino songs–and I think all that is great–if it is meaningful to the Filipinos in our parish, well then why not do so? Now as for me, I don’t attend the Filipino stuff as I’m not Filipino. I don’t know the language and in general I am not especially interested in the culture (nothing wrong with it–just that I’m not interested) and I’d not understand a word–so why would I go?. Our parish has only one priest and he’s not Filipino either BTW. To me, it goes back to that whole “punch 2 for english” discussion. We are in America–not the Philipines, Mexico or anywhere else, My family are now 2nd generation German immigrants–but I would never expect a mass to be done in German to cater to me. We are in the USA–speak English for heaven sake! If I were faced with going to a mass in a foreign language I didn’t speak vs switching churches–I’d switch too—except I’d drive a little further and find a different Catholic parish! Someone needs to speak to the priest–and if he doesn’t listen, notify the bishop of what is going on and that some folks are thinking of leaving the parish over it!!!

 

[Mary_Ellen]

I don’t attend the Spanish or French masses in my parish but if they were the only option for me due to lack of available mass times I would attend. Christ is the same no matter the language and the mass would be more familiar to me than an EF (not that there’s anything wrong with that).

 

[Phemie]

A little clarification please.
Do you only have one Mass a month, and is that Mass always in a language that a small minority speak & understand or are you saying that once a month the priest offers a Mass in a different language?

If it’s the case of one Mass a month being in a foreign language, for the benefit of some of the members of the community, I see no problem, except maybe with the people who are angry and threatening to leave.

If you indeed only have one Mass a month, that is not being done in the language of the majority of the people, I think it’s time for a charitable discussion with your pastor.

Note that the OP said that at a regular Mass there are about 15 people and that the church is half full when the Mass is celebrated in the Filipino language, so I’d argue that the non-Filipino are a minority in this case.

I can’t fathom the mindset that allows one to only attend a Mass one ‘understands’.

When I was in Europe this summer I attended Mass in the Netherlands with Mass in Dutch. Do I speak the language? No, but I understood ‘Mass’.

I went to Mass in Venice where it was celebrated in Italian and Latin/Greek. Do I speak any of those languages? No, but I understood ‘Mass’.

I went to Mass in Paris where Mass was in French and Latin/Greek. Do I speak any of those languages? OK, yes, French is my mother tongue but I don’t ‘understand’ Latin/Greek. But I understood ‘Mass’ and sang a Kyrie and a Gloria that I hadn’t heard since the 60s.

Mass is Mass regardless of the language in which it’s being celebrated. But I have to admit that there was something extra special about that French Mass because it spoke to the child who grew up in a French parish. I would imagine anyone hearing Mass in his/her mother tongue would feel the same kind of ‘comfort’ (as in ‘comfort food’). Why would I want to deny another group that same feeling once a month?

 

[Starrsmother]

Note that the OP said that at a regular Mass there are about 15 people and that the church is half full when the Mass is celebrated in the Filipino language, so I’d argue that the non-Filipino are a minority in this case.

I can’t fathom the mindset that allows one to only attend a Mass one ‘understands’.

When I was in Europe this summer I attended Mass in the Netherlands with Mass in Dutch. Do I speak the language? No, but I understood ‘Mass’.

I went to Mass in Venice where it was celebrated in Italian and Latin/Greek. Do I speak any of those languages? No, but I understood ‘Mass’.

I went to Mass in Paris where Mass was in French and Latin/Greek. Do I speak any of those languages? OK, yes, French is my mother tongue but I don’t ‘understand’ Latin/Greek. But I understood ‘Mass’ and sang a Kyrie and a Gloria that I hadn’t heard since the 60s.

Mass is Mass regardless of the language in which it’s being celebrated. But I have to admit that there was something extra special about that French Mass because it spoke to the child who grew up in a French parish. I would imagine anyone hearing Mass in his/her mother tongue would feel the same kind of ‘comfort’ (as in ‘comfort food’). Why would I want to deny another group that same feeling once a month?

BUT you were the one in the foreign,non-english speaking country, not the other way around! And, I assume they didn’t celebrate a special “english mass” just to accommodate you. I understand and agree 100% with you that before I would completely miss going to mass, I’d go to one in Swahili if I had to. Conversely, if the Catholic church next door to me insisted on celebrating the one and only mass they apparently have a month in a foreign language here in the states—and if the priest and bishop of said parish failed to correct what to me would be a problem, I wouldn’t raise a fuss, though I’d certainly at least make them aware of how I and (at least the case of this poster) OTHERS AS WELL felt. If the situation remained unchanged, I would simply opt out of that parish and find another one to join and go to-- even if I had to drive 50 miles every Sunday to do so. I want to be able to not only hear but to understand the readings and gospels AND the sermon when I go to mass in this country. If I were a tourist in another country, I would of course attend mass there and deal with the fact that I wouldn’t understand the language being spoken as I would be in a country other than my own! That’s just how I’d approach it though.

 

[Phemie]

BUT you were the one in the foreign,non-english speaking country, not the other way around! And, I assume they didn’t celebrate a special “english mass” just to accommodate you. I understand and agree 100% with you that before I would completely miss going to mass, I’d go to one in Swahili if I had to. Conversely, if the Catholic church next door to me insisted on celebrating the one and only mass they apparently have a month in a foreign language here in the states—and if the priest and bishop of said parish failed to correct what to me would be a problem, I wouldn’t raise a fuss, though I’d certainly at least make them aware of how I and (at least the case of this poster) OTHERS AS WELL felt. If the situation remained unchanged, I would simply opt out of that parish and find another one to join and go to-- even if I had to drive 50 miles every Sunday to do so. I want to be able to not only hear but to understand the readings and gospels AND the sermon when I go to mass in this country. If I were a tourist in another country, I would of course attend mass there and deal with the fact that I wouldn’t understand the language being spoken as I would be in a country other than my own! That’s just how I’d approach it though.

The problem is we have the same type of split when you have both French and English in one parish and our country is officially bilingual.

I’ve seen it happen in a military parish I was in, interestingly in Saskatchewan, the same province as the OP. The unilingual Anglophones walked out and attended a nearby parish. They objected to both bilingual and French Masses. Since there was only one Mass on Sunday, it was usually bilingual. That only pleased those who were bilingual.

 

[Lady_Love]

Where is the love of neighbor? The Filipino people are the neighbor. Wouldn’t it be most Christian to surrender a little of your own convenience for the sake of others? Maybe even go a step further and attend the Filipino Mass to show support?

 

[Phemie]

Where is the love of neighbor? The Filipino people are the neighbor. Wouldn’t it be most Christian to surrender a little of your own convenience for the sake of others? Maybe even go a step further and attend the Filipino Mass to show support?

This.

 

[Starrsmother]

The problem is we have the same type of split when you have both French and English in one parish and our country is officially bilingual.

I’ve seen it happen in a military parish I was in, interestingly in Saskatchewan, the same province as the OP. The unilingual Anglophones walked out and attended a nearby parish. They objected to both bilingual and French Masses. Since there was only one Mass on Sunday, it was usually bilingual. That only pleased those who were bilingual.

I see what you are saying. I guess my problem is that–for me–part of the beauty and importance of attending Mass lies in my ability to understand what is being said. I realize that the mass is always the mass and certainly I’d recognize certain key parts such as the consecration in any language. It just wouldn’t be the same to me though, if I couldn’t understand the readings, the gospel or the sermon. So, to me–I’d be one of those who’d switch churches if the mass were in a foreign language. Respect for other cultures is not the issue for me—though frankly if the other culture can speak english as the thread starter said was the case, it would seem to me that they have a little problem respecting those of us from this culture who aren’t bilingual----it’s being able to leave feeling that I’ve fully participated and gotten the very most that I can out of the experience.

 

[mdgspencer]

This is to raise the issues that came up 100 years or more ago in the U.S., when there were crowds of immigrants from non-English speaking countries such as Poland and Italy. In many cases Polish and Italian parishes were established by dioceses to deal with the problems that arose. It would be interesting to know what was said then.

 

[Starrsmother]

This is to raise the issues that came up 100 years or more ago in the U.S., when there were crowds of immigrants from non-English speaking countries such as Poland and Italy. In many cases Polish and Italian parishes were established by dioceses to deal with the problems that arose. It would be interesting to know what was said then.

Actually, it isn’t a bad idea in concept—though I doubt that there are enough priests today to make it happen. When my grandparents arrived from Germany through Ellis Island, neither they nor their kids could speak a word of English. This was in the early 1900’s. They settled in Oklahoma of all places, purchased farm land and enrolled their kids in a Catholic school in the town. My Dad used to tell me a story about the day that two nuns arrived at his house to visit with his mother. They told her “Mrs. G****. you MUST speak english to these children at home because they are having trouble understanding and learning at school.” My Grandma apparently became very proficient in english after that–though I understand that my Grandpa was less so. Both died before I was born, so I can’t say for sure, but the point is, they assimmillated!

In those days, there was no “English as a 2nd Language” classes. If you immigrated to the USA, you were expected to assimilate–and fairly quickly. Part of that was learning to speak the language of the country–ENGLISH! Those who did so progressed–those who did not were left behind. Most did so–and while proud of their heritage, were even prouder of becoming Americans and giving the gift of citizenship to their children. Here is a little story that will sum up my father’s views on the subject: Growing up, my Dad spoke English and German-- sometimes using German words or sayings with his brothers. As a a child I’d sometimes try to be involved in a conversation by picking up German words–as kids will do–and when I’d hear them speaking in German, I’d want to try speaking to them in German to be part of the conversation. My Dad would turn, answer me in English and then return to his conversation. One time he said to me “You need to speak English. You are an American. Your Grandpa worked hard to make you one–appreciate that!” And THAT was the end of THAT!

 

[Elizium23]

Thankfully those days of forced assimilation are gone, and the USA has come to realize that different languages can be accommodated rather than discouraged. While this is a commendable ideal for a melting pot nation, it is not a good rubric for the sacred liturgy, where a sacral language can unite a community otherwise divided into tongues.

I work in the parish office of a bilingual parish. I am happy to present my broken Spanish to those whom I serve and most of them are pleased that I at least try to communicate. But my boss’s and pastor’s Spanish is really low, and our community is split cleanly somewhere near the middle along language lines. We all have our own activities and groups and devotions and rarely the twain shall meet. I regularly “cross the Rio Grande” and participate in Spanish-language activities but this kind of sharing is vanishingly rare.

Luckily right now our Spanish speaking community is well-supported by two religious sisters, a fluent parochial vicar and a native preaching deacon. This isn’t always the case, but they have been the backbone of this parish since eight years after our foundation. Most notably, we found via referral an artist in Mexico who has done a number of altar pieces and basically given our sanctuary a revolutionary makeover. It was formerly drab and ugly and now it is impressive and moving. Without the Latinos our parish would be much, much poorer.

 

[Starrsmother]

Thankfully those days of forced assimilation are gone, and the USA has come to realize that different languages can be accommodated rather than discouraged. While this is a commendable ideal for a melting pot nation, it is not a good rubric for the sacred liturgy, where a sacral language can unite a community otherwise divided into tongues.

I work in the parish office of a bilingual parish. I am happy to present my broken Spanish to those whom I serve and most of them are pleased that I at least try to communicate. But my boss’s and pastor’s Spanish is really low, and our community is split cleanly somewhere near the middle along language lines. We all have our own activities and groups and devotions and rarely the twain shall meet. I regularly “cross the Rio Grande” and participate in Spanish-language activities but this kind of sharing is vanishingly rare.

Luckily right now our Spanish speaking community is well-supported by two religious sisters, a fluent parochial vicar and a native preaching deacon. This isn’t always the case, but they have been the backbone of this parish since eight years after our foundation. Most notably, we found via referral an artist in Mexico who has done a number of altar pieces and basically given our sanctuary a revolutionary makeover. It was formerly drab and ugly and now it is impressive and moving. Without the Latinos our parish would be much, much poorer.

See, while I respect your opinion, I TOTALLY disagree. When people move to the USA it should be because they wish to assimmillate and become Americans. Part of this is learning to speak english. Would you hire someone as a receptionist, for instance, who only spoke broken english but mostly Spanish? Cause I would not and in the past have not. Being bilingual is awesome and our country should encourage it. But if you don’t want to learn english–stay in whatever country you are from!!! Either assimmillate or do not integrate is my personal opinion. Either you wish to be accepted into a wonderful country and be part of it and its many opportunities and if that country happens to be an english speaking country- for heaven sake, be willing to learn english for public use and speak whatever you want at home-or choose a different country or stay wherever you are. The push-2-for-english thing–here in America–just irritates me to death! It isn’t my job to accommodate and understand someone fresh off the coat from Syria–it’s their job to learn to speak with me and the culture here in the states–or don’t come! I mean, why bother? I always want to say Listen Abdul–you aren’t in “Al-whatever-stan” anymore! LOL!

 

[fbl9]

Thanks for the replies. I see the one’s from Canada hold the same view as me.
I guess i’ll leave it in Father’s hands to deal with.
Though it still irks me that some want to take this connection the Filipinos have with home away.

 

[Phemie]

Thanks for the replies. I see the one’s from Canada hold the same view as me.
I guess i’ll leave it in Father’s hands to deal with.
Though it still irks me that some want to take this connection the Filipinos have with home away.

It saddens me to read that the people begrudge the Filipinos a Mass in their own language once in a while.

Has there been a large influx of Filipinos in the surrounding towns in recent years? I know that here in Labrador they are the fastest growing minority we see since employers are bringing them in in great numbers on 2-year contracts to fill the jobs that no local wants to take. They are happy to work as clerks earning minimum wage here since they make as much in a day as some made in a week managing businesses back home.

 

[fbl9]

It saddens me to read that the people begrudge the Filipinos a Mass in their own language once in a while.

Has there been a large influx of Filipinos in the surrounding towns in recent years? I know that here in Labrador they are the fastest growing minority we see since employers are bringing them in in great numbers on 2-year contracts to fill the jobs that no local wants to take. They are happy to work as clerks earning minimum wage here since they make as much in a day as some made in a week managing businesses back home.

That’s my problem it doesn’t sadden me it makes me growly that people begrudge the Mass being said in tagalog.

yes there has been an influx in the nearby town. In which the Catholic Church was closed and sold off due lack of attendees before their arrival.
They seem like hard working happy people. Working here they are making as much a year as the mayor of a large city in the Philippines does.

 

[roveau]

My home parish is served by a priest who also serves 5 other parishes.
Our priest who is a Filipino, does mass once a month at our parish in his native tongue at the request of the Filipinos who have immigrated to a nearby town for work.
When he does so our church is over half full compared to the usual 15 locals.
Some of these locals are very upset at Father for catering to the Filipinos, they can speak English so why do we have to put up with “their” language which we can’t understand.
Some are even considering leaving for the fellowship of lies down the street. And it these people that have me the most upset.
What should I do sit back and let Father deal with it himself or speak up against these intolerant persons.
My country prides it’s self on it’s tolerance of ethnic differences. It encourages it’s citizens to hold onto their roots and even celebrates our differences.
To me it it’s utter stupidity to leave Christ because of this matter.
If one was to leave our parish for the fellowship of lies down the street because of their intolerance, they don’t deserve the name Canadian much less Christian.

If they leave for that reason, they were intending to leave anyway. That’s how I see it.

We have three Filipino priests at our parish and I work with several very religious Filipinos. They get one Mass in Filipino a month - why would I begrudge them that? Mind you, the Mass is allocated at time other than the scheduled weekend Masses. Our priests have really revitalized the Parish and worship. They faced a lot of racial opposition at first but that’s all over now - thanks be to God!