SPLIT: Patriotic songs/hymns all right at Mass?

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TheRealJuliane

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At the vigil Mass yesterday, the cantor and pianist played “God Bless America” during/after Communion. And then the last song was “America the Beautiful.” I don’t know why they picked those 2 songs, I would think Memorial Day would need something about wars and death…They play America the Beautiful on the Sunday near July 4th as well.

This simply seems wrong to me. Especially hearing a patriotic song as I am attempting to pray to God for the gift of Jesus which I have just consumed!

Is there really no song that is inappropriate for church, especially after Communion?

😦
 
[edited] No one actually said it was wrong to sing these songs but it feels strange to me, like a boundary is being crossed. Not separation of church and state, but…something.
 
Yes it is wrong. These songs are not liturgical, even though they may have religious overtones.
 
I don’t mind the ones that have a religious theme, and at the churches I’ve been to, they are played at the closing (and never at any other time during Mass). Its mainly for the major US holidays like Memorial Day, 4th of July, Labor Day, etc.
 
I have a tough time with patriotic songs at Mass - yes, even for the Processional or Recessional. It doesn’t make sense to me to be singing to America just before, during, or after the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass when we ought to all be worshipping God. Sure, some patriotic songs mention God in some way, but it’s still more about the US than about worshipping God.

I’m not talking about Christian hymns that are generally regarding as patriotic such as the Battle Hymn of the Republic. (It’s not a favorite, but it’s not really about America.) I’m talking about God Bless America, My Country 'Tis of Thee, America the Beautiful, Star-Spangled Banner, and the like, or worse, a military anthem. (Mind you, I actually rather like Anchors Aweigh, but not in the Church.) All of these are really about our nation, not about God. Out of context in Church!

I’m all for including intercessions regarding our nation’s leaders, military, etc, in the Prayers of the Faithful. Talk about it some in the homily even, maybe, as long as it’s ultimately about the Gospel, not worshipping our nation. Have a patriotic service outside of and separate from the Mass, and preferably outside the Church. But there’s so much civic religion, Nationalism in the idolatrous sense, why do we need to bring that into the Mass?
 
At all 4 of our Sunday Masses, the cantor before the processional ask everyone to stand and sing ‘God Bless America.’ While I am a patriotic American, I just felt that this was just out of place.
 
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with those pieces being played at Mass.

Listen to the WORDS, they call on God to bless the country, and they call on us to acknowledge the beautiful country that God created. What on earth could possibly be wrong with that?

As a 10 year veteran of the US Army, who was wounded 3 times and who lost a LOT of friends in Vietnam, I would be offended if a Church refused to play such music close to Memorial Day.

And frankly, I would be VERY upset with anyone that said anything to the effect that they were offended by such music. I would seriously wonder what their motivations was.
 
Quick question: When a thread is split, is it a member who splits it or a moderator?
The_Old_Medic said:
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with those pieces being played at Mass.
And frankly, I would be VERY upset with anyone that said anything to the effect that they were offended by such music. I would seriously wonder what their motivations was.
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I thank you for your service Old Medic. God Bless you!

But does that mean anyone who disagrees should not bother typing now?
 
The_Old_Medic said:
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with those pieces being played at Mass.

Listen to the WORDS, they call on God to bless the country, and they call on us to acknowledge the beautiful country that God created. What on earth could possibly be wrong with that?

As a 10 year veteran of the US Army, who was wounded 3 times and who lost a LOT of friends in Vietnam, I would be offended if a Church refused to play such music close to Memorial Day.

And frankly, I would be VERY upset with anyone that said anything to the effect that they were offended by such music. I would seriously wonder what their motivations was.
Click to expand...
Yes there is something wrong with it. The Mass is part of the public prayer of the (worldwide) Church and as such it needs to stick to the liturgy including liturgical norms for selecting the music. The order of preference, is Gregorian chant, then sacred polyphony, then appropriate hymns which can reflect local religious and cultural tradition but must also reflect proper Catholic theology. All hymns used at Mass need to be approved by the local Bishop’s Conference, in your case the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Nobody is claiming to be offended by patriotic music, it’s just that everything has its place. A prayer service outside the Mass or a public celebration, would be more appropriate for patriotic music. If patriotic music is to be played at Mass, it should be after the dismissal, and not as part of the Mass itself, and most certainly never as a communion hymn.
 
Our Choir did a mini concert before their prelude to the processional. I look forward to it every year.

I see it a little differently than most…I firmly believe that God Himself founded this nation for us to be able to enjoy the freedom to worship Him. Thanking the men and women that did His legwork is not just an honor…it’s a duty! While I wouldn’t want to sing a patriotic song as a communal song, or even as a precessional, I think what our Choir did was very appropriate.

One of our Deacons is a veteran, and watching him introduce each branch of the service with tears rolling down his face gets me every single time.
 
The_Old_Medic said:
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with those pieces being played at Mass.

Listen to the WORDS, they call on God to bless the country, and they call on us to acknowledge the beautiful country that God created. What on earth could possibly be wrong with that?

As a 10 year veteran of the US Army, who was wounded 3 times and who lost a LOT of friends in Vietnam, I would be offended if a Church refused to play such music close to Memorial Day.

And frankly, I would be VERY upset with anyone that said anything to the effect that they were offended by such music. I would seriously wonder what their motivations was.
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THANK YOU for saying this so well and explaining that songs about our country should be considered prayers for our country–certainly permissible in the Mass. God bless you for your service to the United States and to me and my loved ones.
 
I would not freak out if America the Beautiful was played as a recession or procession song, but definitely not during communion.

I think it’s important to not label or imply that people are not patriotic because of their beliefs about liturgy.

Just because someone wouldn’t sing the Star Spangled Banner at mass does not mean they don’t appreciate with all their heart the sacrifices of our service men, neither does it mean their porches are not lined with flags.

Obviously, people who attend masses where there is a more set structure to the liturgy are less likely to be fine with it than those with more free-flowing liturgies.
 
TrueLight said:
I would not freak out if America the Beautiful was played as a recession or procession song, but definitely not during communion.

I think it’s important to not label or imply that people are not patriotic because of their beliefs about liturgy.

Just because someone wouldn’t sing the Star Spangled Banner at mass does not mean they don’t appreciate with all their heart the sacrifices of our service men, neither does it mean their porches are not lined with flags.

Obviously, people who attend masses where there is a more set structure to the liturgy are less likely to be fine with it than those with more free-flowing liturgies.
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I agree. Assuming people who don’t want patriotic hymns in the liturgy are not patriotic and have sketchy motivations would be like assuming that people who do like patriotic hymns during the liturgy aren’t spiritual people and also have sketchy motivations. Personally, it doesn’t bother me if a patriotic hymn is sung, but I also wouldn’t be upset if I didn’t hear one used. That doesn’t make me “un-patriotic”.

We had “God of Our Fathers Whose Almighty Hand” and “Eternal Father Strong to Save” played at mass on Sunday. Most people wouldn’t even realize that they are considered “patriotic” or “national” hymns.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
At the vigil Mass yesterday, the cantor and pianist played “God Bless America” during/after Communion. And then the last song was “America the Beautiful.” I don’t know why they picked those 2 songs, I would think Memorial Day would need something about wars and death…They play America the Beautiful on the Sunday near July 4th as well.

This simply seems wrong to me. Especially hearing a patriotic song as I am attempting to pray to God for the gift of Jesus which I have just consumed!

Is there really no song that is inappropriate for church, especially after Communion?

😦
Click to expand...
Not using patriotic songs in the mass does not mean that there is a lack of patritism. The Church is universal and in our worship we need to hold to that idea and not emphisis our own county above any other.
It is appropriate to pray for those who have died in war, but not just for our side, but for all who died.
 
I am very patriotic, and I love this country, but I think singing these things crosses the line. The worship of GOD is not the time to be singing about our country. Anyways, it undermines the unity of the church!

If you must sing a hymn, instead of the texts that the church has given us, why not sing something like Faith of our Fathers, a real hymn with a few patriotic overtones?
 
OraLabora said:
Yes there is something wrong with it. The Mass is part of the public prayer of the (worldwide) Church and as such it needs to stick to the liturgy including liturgical norms for selecting the music. The order of preference, is Gregorian chant, then sacred polyphony, then appropriate hymns which can reflect local religious and cultural tradition but must also reflect proper Catholic theology. All hymns used at Mass need to be approved by the local Bishop’s Conference, in your case the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.

Nobody is claiming to be offended by patriotic music, it’s just that everything has its place. A prayer service outside the Mass or a public celebration, would be more appropriate for patriotic music. If patriotic music is to be played at Mass, it should be after the dismissal, and not as part of the Mass itself, and most certainly never as a communion hymn.
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Excellent post and this sums up my position as well.

Not to mention that Sunday was the sixth Sunday of Easter. Easter is the most important liturgical celebration of our faith. In no way should we be using patriotic music on the sixth Sunday of Easter. It undercuts the celebration of Easter which is supposed to be going on.

I amazed-Lent goes on and on forever, it seems and we are constantly reminded of how we are in Lent during Lent as well as we should. But usually by the third Sunday of Easter, Mass begins to feel like Oridinary Time instead of Easter. Yeah, we can keep the penance up for six weeks but we can’t keep the celebration up for six weeks.
 
The_Old_Medic said:
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with those pieces being played at Mass.

Listen to the WORDS, they call on God to bless the country, and they call on us to acknowledge the beautiful country that God created. What on earth could possibly be wrong with that?

As a 10 year veteran of the US Army, who was wounded 3 times and who lost a LOT of friends in Vietnam, I would be offended if a Church refused to play such music close to Memorial Day.

And frankly, I would be VERY upset with anyone that said anything to the effect that they were offended by such music. I would seriously wonder what their motivations was.
Click to expand...
Would you say it’s ok to sing “Happy Birthday” at Mass? If someone said you wouldn’t, would you accuse them of being against celebrating birthdays? Everything has it’s place, and a church is not the place for patroitic music.
 
At our Memorial Day Mass, the processional was “God of Our Fathers,” which is the official National Hymn of the United States, and the recessional was “America, the Beautiful.” Both of these are hymns which ask God to bless this country, and as such, I consider them appropriate for use during Mass (technically, the processional and recessional are outside of the Mass.) “Eternal Father, Strong to Save,” is also a good hymn, particularly for Memorial Day, and is the official funeral hymn of most branches of the United States military.

These I would NOT use during Mass: Our national anthem, “The Star Spangled Banner,” is not a prayer at all but a recount of an historical event and, only in the fourth verse, an exhortation to praise God for the good of the nation. “God Bless America” is technically a prayer, but is unsuitable as it originated from a Broadway musical. “America” (My Country, 'tis of Thee) is also not a hymn, plus it shares the same melody as the national anthem of the United Kingdom, “God Save the Queen.” Others, like “Columbia, the Gem of the Ocean,” are fine patriotic songs that are best left waiting outside the church in the company of Mr. Sousa.
 
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