SPLIT: Pope Francis against lay readers/EMHC

[PietroPaolo]

As Pope Francis has pointed out the task of the laity isn’t to read or distribute communion at Mass (those roles can easily be accomplished by the ordained). We are called to the much more difficult (and uncomfortable) task of evangelizing the secular world around us, indeed we are called to sanctify the world around us. I’d recommend leaving the lectoring for others and devote that time instead to the New Evangelization.

*“We priests tend to clericalize the laity. We do not realize it, but it is as if we infect them with our own disease. And the laity — not all, but many — ask us on their knees to clericalize them, because it is more comfortable to be an altar server than the protagonist of a lay path. We cannot fall into that trap — it is a sinful complicity.” *-- Pope Francis

 

[Sirach2]

As Pope Francis has pointed out the task of the laity isn’t to read or distribute communion at Mass (those roles can easily be accomplished by the ordained).

I disagree that this is the Holy Father’s message. Kindly read again …

That inward-looking Church, which doesn’t look sufficiently to Christ and doesn’t reflect him, his light and his love for those walking in darkness, quickly succumbs to what he called the worst evil of all, a “spiritual worldliness … living in itself, of itself, for itself."
That, for him, is the fundamental corruption of the Church that needs to be reformed.

The “purity of intention” is what needs to be present in the hearts of lay persons who share the ministry in the sanctuary, whatever that may be. It is not, repeat not, to abolish the ministry, but bring it to perfection by holy and right interior ordering.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

aaa

 

[PietroPaolo]

I disagree that this is the Holy Father’s message. Kindly read again …

The “purity of intention” is what needs to be present in the hearts of lay persons who share the ministry in the sanctuary, whatever that may be. It is not, repeat not, to abolish the ministry, but bring it to perfection by holy and right interior ordering.

“it is more comfortable to be an altar server than the protagonist of a lay path.”*

The Pope isn’t abolishing those ministries, I never claimed he did. He was, however, criticizing the spirit that brings about and sustains those ministries. No where in the Holy Father’s comments does he suggest that the laity are not clericalized if they perform tasks in the sanctuary with “right interior ordering”.

 

[Sirach2]

“it is more comfortable to be an altar server than the protagonist of a lay path.”

The Pope isn’t abolishing those ministries, I never claimed he did…

Ok, I’ll agree, but it seemed to be your personal recommendation to abolish the ministry, and in that case, I do disagree. The Church permits it. Pope Francis would prefer to see the ministry exercised with the most pure motives of charity.

I’d recommend leaving the lectoring for others and devote that time instead to the New Evangelization.

 

[chimo]

As Pope Francis has pointed out the task of the laity isn’t to read or distribute communion at Mass (those roles can easily be accomplished by the ordained). We are called to the much more difficult (and uncomfortable) task of evangelizing the secular world around us, indeed we are called to sanctify the world around us. I’d recommend leaving the lectoring for others and devote that time instead to the New Evangelization.

*“We priests tend to clericalize the laity. We do not realize it, but it is as if we infect them with our own disease. And the laity — not all, but many — ask us on their knees to clericalize them, because it is more comfortable to be an altar server than the protagonist of a lay path. We cannot fall into that trap — it is a sinful complicity.” *-- Pope Francis

It is true that the role of the Laity is not that well defined. How important is it? It is probably just as important as what Jesus does for us at the Mass and the Divine Liturgy. The problem today is to utilize the role of the Laity into a powerful witness outside the confines of the Mass and the Divine Liturgy. It is too easy to find comfort in the Church. One Orthodox bishop has called the role of the Laity to be the Liturgy after the Liturgy. It is in this past century that the role of the Laity must take more responsibility than ever before. God has given to us this role to carry the Cross of His Son. We need to be the Simon of Cyrenes for the Church to be able to transform some of this world back to God. You are right in that the Laity must be able to do some more of this missionary work for God to help bring some of the world back to Him. The priests are no longer able to do this. The priests today are in need of help. That help must come from the dedicated Laity and families who will pool their resources to do much more than by just going to Church.

 

[frizzgrig]

I don’t believe he is against lay readers or EMHCs, but anything is possible. He certainly is against the clericalism demonstrated by some lay persons and clerics.

As Pope Francis has pointed out the task of the laity isn’t to read or distribute communion at Mass (those roles can easily be accomplished by the ordained).

If your supposition were true - that distribution of communion and proclamation of the scriptures could be easily accomplished by the ordained - the practice of using lay ministers to perform these acts would never have taken off.

My parish church holds just shy of 900 people. We have a vigil Mass on Saturday that runs around 80% capacity. We have 4 Masses on Sunday morning that run from 75%-100% capacity and another Mass Sunday evening that runs about 70% capacity. Then we have at least two more Masses in Spanish (I have no idea how well attended they are since I don’t go to those but the parking lot is full). We are not even close to being the largest parish in my diocese.

80% of 900 is 720 people. We have one priest assigned to our parish along with our pastor. Without lay ministers most Masses would require each priest to distribute communion to 360 people. At 10 seconds per person just the distribution of communion would take at least a half hour instead of the 10 or so min it takes now. Not to mention those home bound or hospitalized parishioners who would not be visited and receive.

You would eliminate instituted lectors (still a lay person) from reading. While there are not many instituted lectors they do exist - usually men in formation for the diaconate. This would throw the burden of reading all of the scripture readings, the psalm, and the prayers of the faithful on the priest who is already tasked with a lot to do during Mass.

While Pope Francis is correct in point out it is not the task of the laity to do these things, the GIRM states the duties of those in holy orders (GIRM 92 - 94), the duties of the laity (GIRM 95) , addresses particular ministries of instituted acolyte and lector (GIRM 98-99), and then “in the absence of an instituted acolyte” defines the lay person’s potential ministries (GIRM 100) and “in the absence of an instituted lector” more potential ministries (GIRM 101). The section concludes with the following:

1. The liturgical duties that are not proper to the priest or the deacon and are listed in nos. 100-106 may also be entrusted by a liturgical blessing or a temporary deputation to suitable lay persons chosen by the pastor or rector of the church. All should observe the norms established by the Bishop for his diocese regarding the office of those who serve the priest at the altar.

So until Pope Francis or his successors change the liturgical norms defined in the GIRM, it is proper and fitting for properly formed lay persons to read, cantor, serve at the altar, and distribute communion at the discretion of the pastor or priest celebrant in accord with the directions of the local bishop.

 

[marywarfield]

As Pope Francis has pointed out the task of the laity isn’t to read or distribute communion at Mass (those roles can easily be accomplished by the ordained). We are called to the much more difficult (and uncomfortable) task of evangelizing the secular world around us, indeed we are called to sanctify the world around us. I’d recommend leaving the lectoring for others and devote that time instead to the New Evangelization.

*“We priests tend to clericalize the laity. We do not realize it, but it is as if we infect them with our own disease. And the laity — not all, but many — ask us on their knees to clericalize them, because it is more comfortable to be an altar server than the protagonist of a lay path. We cannot fall into that trap — it is a sinful complicity.” *-- Pope Francis

Couldn’t agree more.

 

[agnes_therese]

I can’t find any quote from him in that article, saying he is “against lay readers/EMHC” as you claim in your thread title.
The author of the article – not Pope Francis himself – does make reference to people who think they should be greeters, lectors, etc. “**rather than **to live and spread the faith in their families, workplaces, schools, neighborhoods and beyond.”

Not the same thing at all.

As Pope Francis has pointed out the task of the laity isn’t to read or distribute communion at Mass (those roles can easily be accomplished by the ordained). We are called to the much more difficult (and uncomfortable) task of evangelizing the secular world around us, indeed we are called to sanctify the world around us. I’d recommend leaving the lectoring for others and devote that time instead to the New Evangelization.

*“We priests tend to clericalize the laity. We do not realize it, but it is as if we infect them with our own disease. And the laity — not all, but many — ask us on their knees to clericalize them, because it is more comfortable to be an altar server than the protagonist of a lay path. We cannot fall into that trap — it is a sinful complicity.” *-- Pope Francis

 

[GCTSgrad]

As Pope Francis has pointed out the task of the laity isn’t to read or distribute communion at Mass (those roles can easily be accomplished by the ordained). We are called to the much more difficult (and uncomfortable) task of evangelizing the secular world around us, indeed we are called to sanctify the world around us. I’d recommend leaving the lectoring for others and devote that time instead to the New Evangelization.

*“We priests tend to clericalize the laity. We do not realize it, but it is as if we infect them with our own disease. And the laity — not all, but many — ask us on their knees to clericalize them, because it is more comfortable to be an altar server than the protagonist of a lay path. We cannot fall into that trap — it is a sinful complicity.” *-- Pope Francis

What a great time to be a Catholic! I love Pope Francis and his focus on following Christ, on being in mission, to be salt and light to the world. What a shame it would be for those serving as lectors or EMHCs to think they have fulfilled this in serving at Mass; there is so much more to be done than in the world for the service of Christ than that. It would be a greater shame if the rest of the laity get the idea that the only way to be of service is during Mass.

Having said that, I do find these roles for lay people to be helpful. When I was a Protestant pastor, I found it a great help to have lay people read the Scripture lessons. And I can’t imagine how much longer Mass would take if it weren’t for EMHCs. After an initial training period, these roles don’t require much time outside of Mass, which they would be attending in any case.

Yes, the priest could do all the readings, or the deacon could do them — when he’s present, and this is a change that I think most could easily accept. Yes, we could refrain from using EMHCs and let Mass go on for over an hour, but this change would not be so readily accepted.

 

[LisaA]

As Pope Francis has pointed out the task of the laity isn’t to read or distribute communion at Mass (those roles can easily be accomplished by the ordained). We are called to the much more difficult (and uncomfortable) task of evangelizing the secular world around us, indeed we are called to sanctify the world around us. I’d recommend leaving the lectoring for others and devote that time instead to the New Evangelization.

*“We priests tend to clericalize the laity. We do not realize it, but it is as if we infect them with our own disease. And the laity — not all, but many — ask us on their knees to clericalize them, because it is more comfortable to be an altar server than the protagonist of a lay path. We cannot fall into that trap — it is a sinful complicity.” *-- Pope Francis

You know that is a very valid point. It IS easy to participate in the Mass versus going out into the world to spread the Gospel. It can easily become an excuse…“I’m doing SO much already…EMHC, Lector, Sacristan…” I’ve probably said this myself.

I don’t think Pope Francis is suggesting these ministries be eliminated but when there are clergy available (we have two permanent Deacons and usually have at least on Seminarian assigned to our Parish) maybe greater use of their special role.

Lisa

 

[Sirach2]

Folks, I really hope this will not turn into a ministry-bashing session, which is really a personal opinion in conflict with what the Church has instituted and permitted as valid ministries.

As St. Teresa of Avila is reputed as saying on her deathbed in a three-fold declaration, “I am a Daughter of the Church.” She, and other saints and Doctors of the Church have expressed well and often that we are to obey, not criticize, if we would please Our Lord.

That being said, who is to say that those who minister at the altar do not also minister in good works outside of the Church? Isn’t that judgmental? I know some who also take communion to the hospitals, visit the sick in nursing homes, attend gatherings to pray for others in need, and the list could go on and on.

 

[ProVobis]

from the article

“It’s key that we Catholics, both clergy and laity, go out to meet the people,” he stressed in the 2010 book-length interview El Jesuita.

This is “not only because her mission is to announce the Gospel, but because failing to do so harms us. … A Church that limits herself to administering parish work, that lives enclosed within a community, experiences what someone in prison does: physical and mental atrophy.”

A Church that merely protects its small flock, that gives all or most of its attention to its faithful clientele, he believes, “is a Church that is sick.”

Quite a powerful message IMO

 

[tawny]

Folks, I really hope this will not turn into a ministry-bashing session, which is really a personal opinion in conflict with what the Church has instituted and permitted as valid ministries.

As St. Teresa of Avila is reputed as saying on her deathbed in a three-fold declaration, “I am a Daughter of the Church.” She, and other saints and Doctors of the Church have expressed well and often that we are to obey, not criticize, if we would please Our Lord.

That being said, who is to say that those who minister at the altar do not also minister in good works outside of the Church? Isn’t that judgmental? I know some who also take communion to the hospitals, visit the sick in nursing homes, attend gatherings to pray for others in need, and the list could go on and on.

 

[LisaA]

Folks, I really hope this will not turn into a ministry-bashing session, which is really a personal opinion in conflict with what the Church has instituted and permitted as valid ministries.

As St. Teresa of Avila is reputed as saying on her deathbed in a three-fold declaration, “I am a Daughter of the Church.” She, and other saints and Doctors of the Church have expressed well and often that we are to obey, not criticize, if we would please Our Lord.

That being said, who is to say that those who minister at the altar do not also minister in good works outside of the Church? Isn’t that judgmental? I know some who also take communion to the hospitals, visit the sick in nursing homes, attend gatherings to pray for others in need, and the list could go on and on.

Sorry but you are arguing against “facts not in evidence…” No one has said those who are EMHCs or Lectors or singing in the Choir are not also feeding the hungry, clothing the naked…have they? I certainly didn’t hear this. What I did hear is that we both have a mission beyond the church walls and both clergy and laity need to be aware of the tendency to focus on the “inside” of the church rather than reaching out beyond the walls. As he suggested, don’t let the tasks of the clergy be taken up by the laity if it’s not necessary (and in our parish it is not) but further he suggests the clergy itself not be so clericalized. He’s been completely consistent in this call. Remember his statement that the Shepherd must smell of the sheep?

I think it’s a thoughtful and though provoking statement and not meant as an attack on anyone.

Lisa

 

[Sirach2]

sorry but you are arguing against “facts not in evidence…” no one has said those who are emhcs or lectors or singing in the choir are not also feeding the hungry, clothing the naked…have they? I certainly didn’t hear this.

we are called to the much more difficult (and uncomfortable) task of evangelizing the secular world around us, indeed we are called to sanctify the world around us. I’d recommend leaving the lectoring for others and devote that time instead to the new evangelization.

the problem today is to utilize the role of the laity into a powerful witness outside the confines of the mass and the divine liturgy. it is too easy to find comfort in the church.

the author of the article does make reference to people who think they should be greeters, lectors, etc. “rather than to live and spread the faith in their families, workplaces, schools, neighborhoods and beyond.” not the same thing at all.

 

[LisaA]

Your format is impossible to quote so I won’t waste the time. Again, no one has said those working within the walls are not also evangelizing outside of the church but that it can be an easy excuse to avoid what is likely a more difficult task. I believe Pope Francis was simply warning against the tendency on the part of both clergy and laity to “hide” in their comfort zones and not reach out. I also think he and others in clergy believe that the laity are being used way beyond the point of necessity and in this he is every bit as hard on the clergy and their tendency to sit back and have the laity do some of the traditional tasks of the clergy when not necessary.

DO you disagree with the points or are you just determined to make other posters look accusatory and uncharitable?

Lisa

 

[PietroPaolo]

It is true that the role of the Laity is not that well defined. How important is it? It is probably just as important as what Jesus does for us at the Mass and the Divine Liturgy. The problem today is to utilize the role of the Laity into a powerful witness outside the confines of the Mass and the Divine Liturgy. It is too easy to find comfort in the Church. One Orthodox bishop has called the role of the Laity to be the Liturgy after the Liturgy. It is in this past century that the role of the Laity must take more responsibility than ever before. God has given to us this role to carry the Cross of His Son. We need to be the Simon of Cyrenes for the Church to be able to transform some of this world back to God. You are right in that the Laity must be able to do some more of this missionary work for God to help bring some of the world back to Him. The priests are no longer able to do this. The priests today are in need of help. That help must come from the dedicated Laity and families who will pool their resources to do much more than by just going to Church.

 

[PietroPaolo]

Pope Francis would prefer to see the ministry exercised with the most pure motives of charity.

Source?

 

[PietroPaolo]

I can’t find any quote from him in that article, saying he is “against lay readers/EMHC” as you claim in your thread title.
The author of the article – not Pope Francis himself – does make reference to people who think they should be greeters, lectors, etc. “**rather than **to live and spread the faith in their families, workplaces, schools, neighborhoods and beyond.”

Not the same thing at all.

I gave you the quote in my OP on this thread. Please reread.