Split: Prot/Cath stance on Mary : Church Authority

[Mickey]

If you’re confident in your translation, why not post one of your verses and we’ll go to the Greek text and see how accurate it is?

I have an idea. Instead of playing the “my translation is better than your translation” game-- why don’t we all read Scripture and let it settle into our hearts as we live our lives in hope and peace and charity with great love for our neighbors?

 

[believers]

The KJV is not a good translation. if personal private translation was all that mattered, then there would be no need for pastors, priests or any teaching authority. you could just read the bible. then of course you would have a different church for every person.

You can not tell me that your views were not shaped by the tradition you learned from. they are not from the bible alone. they are from an interpretation of the bible alone. probably the interpretation taught by whatever church/institution you studied/learned from.

So that begs the question, which institution has authority.

If Jesus didn’t found a church and only found the bible, why didn’t he have scribes writing down everything he taught as it happened?

Here’s the answer to your question… NO institution has the authority… ONLY the Word of God. I trust the Word of God ONLY for my salvation and so should you. That’s why I insist on an accurate translation.

 

[believers]

I have an idea. Instead of playing the “my translation is better than your translation” game-- why don’t we all read Scripture and let it settle into our hearts as we live our lives in hope and peace and charity with great love for our neighbors?

Well, why not? It’s not a game. That’s what the Bible says we should do.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, **for correction, **for instruction in righteousness:

 

[Mickey]

Well, why not? It’s not a game. That’s what the Bible says we should do.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, **for correction, **for instruction in righteousness:

LOL!
I really doubt this means that we should prooftext all versions of the Bible with the Greek so that one can prove that KJV onlyists are supreme.

Also, notice that the verse says “ALL” Scripture–not “ONLY” Scripture. Hence Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are profitable. But then I don’t expect you to agree with this.

 

[believers]

LOL!
I really doubt this means that we should prooftext all versions of the Bible with the Greek so that one can prove that KJV onlyists are supreme.

Also, notice that the verse says “ALL” Scripture–not “ONLY” Scripture. Hence Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition are profitable. But then I don’t expect you to agree with this.

Yes, it does. Then why don’t you post your verses and prove that the Roman Catholic church has the authority? I’m interested in the truth.

Notice that it says ALL scripture. Meaning all of the Word of God and absolutely no mention of traditions.

 

[runandsew]

The Word of God does not change… only translations. I did my homework and found KJV to be the most accurate. One can easily determine the accuracy of a translation by going to the Greek text and verifying. If you’re confident in your translation, why not post one of your verses and we’ll go to the Greek text and see how accurate it is?

You know I will start a new thread on “king James only”. There are a lot of people who know quite a lot about the issue, and would love to have (name removed by moderator)ut, but hidden down here in another thread is not the place to go into detailed discussion

 

[Mickey]

Notice that it says ALL scripture. Meaning all of the Word of God and absolutely no mention of traditions.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

---

2 Thessalonians 2:15 **
Therefore, brethren,** stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

[Eden]

MY claim is that the Bible is the only authority.

Your claim has no authority behind it. It is simply something you came up with out of your head, just as we were warned about in the Word of God.

I would like you to provide the verses from the Word of God that support your claim that authority is transferred through private revelation. And the verses from the Word of God that support your claim that authority is transferred through reading and quoting the Bible.

 

[Eden]

Meaning all of the Word of God and absolutely no mention of traditions.

In the Word of God, you will find the following:

1. The Word of God is Transferred Orally
2. Learning through Oral Apostolic Tradition
3. Examples of Jesus’ and the Apostles’ Reliance on Oral Tradition

Please look up the verses referrenced here scripturecatholic.com/oral_tradition.html and realize the error of your comment.

And then, please read the quotes about tradition from the earliest Christians provided on the same webpage.

 

[santaro75]

Here’s the answer to your question… NO institution has the authority… ONLY the Word of God. I trust the Word of God ONLY for my salvation and so should you. That’s why I insist on an accurate translation.

really, first of all, you are saying the Bible is the only word of God. I won’t even go into that.

Secondly you are saying the Bible can speak for itself.

Thirdly, show me in the word of God where it says the Bible is the SOLE authority.

 

[Lukelion]

Yes, it does. Then why don’t you post your verses and prove that the Roman Catholic church has the authority? I’m interested in the truth.

Notice that it says ALL scripture. Meaning all of the Word of God and absolutely no mention of traditions.

Many claim that 2 Timothy 3:16–17 claims Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith. But an examination of the verse in context shows that it doesn’t claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is “profitable” (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is “sufficient”.
But…this is really off the track of the op. Start a new thread. I guarantee you it will take off .

Lukelion

 

[believers]

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

---

2 Thessalonians 2:15 **
Therefore, brethren,** stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Mickey,

Paul wasn’t referring to YOUR traditions. He’s referring to the tradition of the “preaching of the cross.”

According to the book of Acts 17:1-4, Paul (not Peter) founded the church of Thessalonica. He spent about a month there until he had to leave very quickly because of the unbelieving Jews.

His second letter was written because the believers in Thessalonica thought they missed the day of the Lord. He writes concerning their idleness, refusal to work and act like busybodies.

Paul then went to Berea after he found Thessalonica…

Act 17:10
“And the brethren (in Thessalonica) immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews.”

Act 17:11
“These (believers in Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

 

[believers]

Many claim that 2 Timothy 3:16–17 claims Scripture is sufficient as a rule of faith. But an examination of the verse in context shows that it doesn’t claim that at all; it only claims Scripture is “profitable” (Greek: ophelimos) that is, helpful. Many things can be profitable for moving one toward a goal, without being sufficient in getting one to the goal. Notice that the passage nowhere even hints that Scripture is “sufficient”.
But…this is really off the track of the op. Start a new thread. I guarantee you it will take off .

Lukelion

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So you’re saying that the Word of God IS NOT sufficient for reproof, or correction, or good enough for instruction in righteousness? I know that can’t be right.

 

[lak611]

You know I will start a new thread on “king James only”. There are a lot of people who know quite a lot about the issue, and would love to have (name removed by moderator)ut, but hidden down here in another thread is not the place to go into detailed discussion

There already is a thread about why people believe the KJV is the only accurate translation. Here’s the link: there already is a thread about the KJV-onlyism. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthrea…77#post1542677. I already told “believers” that he is debating in the wrong thread. This thread is supposed to be about Mary, not the KJV Bible!

 

[believers]

really, first of all, you are saying the Bible is the only word of God. I won’t even go into that.

Secondly you are saying the Bible can speak for itself.

Thirdly, show me in the word of God where it says the Bible is the SOLE authority.

Sorry… Let me clarify that. The Bible is the only Word of God.
And,** the Bible can speak for itself**.

2Ti 3:16 ALL scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

“ALL scripture” refers to the Bible or Word of God.

The Bible or Word of God is profitable for doctrine. If I use it as my doctrine, I will gain.

And, I can use it to correct you or anyone that would like to post anything that says the Roman Catholic church has any authority whatsoever. Which you guys have yet to prove. I’m still waiting on that one.

 

[believers]

In the Word of God, you will find the following:

1. The Word of God is Transferred Orally
2. Learning through Oral Apostolic Tradition
3. Examples of Jesus’ and the Apostles’ Reliance on Oral Tradition

Please look up the verses referrenced here scripturecatholic.com/oral_tradition.html and realize the error of your comment.

And then, please read the quotes about tradition from the earliest Christians provided on the same webpage.

Eden, When exactly did Peter become the first Pope?

 

[believers]

Mickey,

Paul wasn’t referring to YOUR traditions. He’s referring to the tradition of the “preaching of the cross.”

According to the book of Acts 17:1-4, Paul (not Peter) founded the church of Thessalonica. He spent about a month there until he had to leave very quickly because of the unbelieving Jews.

His second letter was written because the believers in Thessalonica thought they missed the day of the Lord. He writes concerning their idleness, refusal to work and act like busybodies.

Paul then went to Berea after he founded Thessalonica…

Act 17:10
“And the brethren (in Thessalonica) immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming [thither] went into the synagogue of the Jews.”

Act 17:11
“These (believers in Berea) were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.”

Note: The Believers in Berea were MORE noble than those in Thessalonica where you claim your traditions were taught. Why were they more noble? Because they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily.

 

[santaro75]

Sorry… Let me clarify that. The Bible is the only Word of God.
And,** the Bible can speak for itself**.

2Ti 3:16 ALL scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

“ALL scripture” refers to the Bible or Word of God.

The Bible or Word of God is profitable for doctrine. If I use it as my doctrine, I will gain.

And, I can use it to correct you or anyone that would like to post anything that says the Roman Catholic church has any authority whatsoever. Which you guys have yet to prove. I’m still waiting on that one.

Yes it is profitable for reproof and correction. Where does it say it is the ONLY source of revelation???

Can the Bible stand up and speak out against Communism? Slavery? Fetal stem cell research? Human cloning? Even if it did specifically address these issues it would still be a MAN or WOMAN speaking on behalf of the Bible using their interpretations.

 

[Mickey]

Paul wasn’t referring to YOUR [T]raditions.

He sure was-- OUR Traditions are Paul’s Traditions.

 

[runandsew]

The Word of God does not change… only translations. I did my homework and found KJV to be the most accurate. One can easily determine the accuracy of a translation by going to the Greek text and verifying. If you’re confident in your translation, why not post one of your verses and we’ll go to the Greek text and see how accurate it is?

Here are two passages from the KJV

Matthew 16:18 - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (Petros), and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

John 1:42 - And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, a stone. (Petros).

Through out the rest of the KJV, (Lithos) is translated Stone, and (Petros) is translated Peter, This is the only time (Petros) is translated stone. In most of the rest of the Bible translations the name Peter is used in John 1:42 instead of the word stone.