SPLIT: Scripture verses re: Mary's Perpetual Virginity

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spsteve

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hi everybody,

i have an issue befor me which i need a solution

i know mary had no other child but jesus i need biblical proves to defend myself

thank you all.
 
spsteve said:
hi everybody,

i have an issue befor me which i need a solution

i know mary had no other child but jesus i need biblical proves to defend myself

thank you all.
Click to expand...
Jesus is referred to as Son of Mary - no other individual in the bible is referred to as son of Mary.

Jesus told John that Mary was his “mother” at the cross (and Mary John’s mother) - if Jesus had siblings, they would have been at the cross and no need, in any event, for Jesus to put Mary into John’s care.

The common attack on perpetual virgnity are refrences to Jesus’ brothers - but the word used means “breathern” (e.g,. cousins) and two of the so called “brothers” are later described as being sons of another “mary” (pretty much proving that point - bretheren, not brothers).

Most importantly, because the Church/Magisterium has infallibly declared the perpetual virginity and the writings of the earliest Christians support this doctrine.

Blessings,

Brian
 
Brian’s points are all good. Consider also Mary’s response to Gabriel upon being informed that she was going to bear a child. Luke 1:26-34
26 In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, 27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28 And he came to her and said, “Hail, full of grace, * the Lord is with you!” * 29 But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and considered in her mind what sort of greeting this might be. 30* And the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. 31* And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. 32 He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, 33* and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there will be no end.” 34* And Mary said to the angel, “How shall this be, since I have no husband?”
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She is betrothed to be married. Ordinarily it would be obvious that she would expect to have children. The only possible explanation for her question in vs 34 is that she intended to remain a virgin.
 
Why would Jesus give Mary to John (at the Cross in John’s Gospel) when He had brothers and/or sisters that were legally obligated to take care of her?
 
NotWorthy said:
Why would Jesus give Mary to John (at the Cross in John’s Gospel) when He had brothers and/or sisters that were legally obligated to take care of her?
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Hi !

A frequent response by protestant brothers is that probably the Lord wanted His mother to live with a believer, which His siblings were not.

Against this solution a clear scriptural counter-argument spsteve could use is IMHO Acts 1:14

13
When they entered the city they went to the upper room where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James.
14
All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, together with some women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

His “brothers” were part of the post-paschal community from the beginning. 🙂

In Christ
P7
 
pneuma07 said:
Hi !

A frequent response by protestant brothers is that probably the Lord wanted His mother to live with a believer, which His siblings were not.

Against this solution a clear scriptural counter-argument spsteve could use is IMHO Acts 1:14

13
When they entered the city they went to the upper room where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James son of Alphaeus, Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James.
14
All these devoted themselves with one accord to prayer, together with some women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

His “brothers” were part of the post-paschal community from the beginning. 🙂

In Christ
P7
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Wow! Great Counter-point!!! :clapping:
 
spsteve said:
hi everybody,

i have an issue befor me which i need a solution

i know mary had no other child but jesus i need biblical proves to defend myself

thank you all.
Click to expand...
The best scriptures you can use are Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 where it says that Jesus had cousins, that were the children of Joseph from his first marriage.

This clearly proves that mary never had sex with Joseph and died a virgin.
 
Cashue said:
The best scriptures you can use are Matthew 12:46, Luke 8:19, and Mark 3:31 where it says that Jesus had cousins, that were the children of Joseph from his first marriage.

This clearly proves that mary never had sex with Joseph and died a virgin.
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Clearly? I don’t know how you could get “clearly” out of this.

C’mon, Man!
 
NotWorthy said:
Clearly? I don’t know how you could get “clearly” out of this.

C’mon, Man!
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yes, those scriptures are clear, the people are speaking about Jesus brothers and sisters so clearly people understood that Jesus was raised with COUSINS that were the children of Joseph from his first marriage.

Also we know Mary was a virgin her whole life because Saint Matthew says 1:25 Joseph “He had no relations with her until she bore a son…” the word UNTIL clearly indicates that Mary never ever had sex with Joseph.

The bible is clear on that, Mary died a virgin never having had sex or any other children.
 
Cashue said:
yes, those scriptures are clear, the people are speaking about Jesus brothers and sisters so clearly people understood that Jesus was raised with COUSINS that were the children of Joseph from his first marriage.

Also we know Mary was a virgin her whole life because Saint Matthew says 1:25 Joseph “He had no relations with her until she bore a son…” the word UNTIL clearly indicates that Mary never ever had sex with Joseph.

The bible is clear on that, Mary died a virgin never having had sex or any other children.
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OK, I detect the faint whiff of sarcasm here.
 
I find it odd that God would choose for an earthly (yet virginal) father someone who would simply abandon these so called “children from a previous marriage” and flee to Egypt with Jesus and Mary. [Matt 2:13]

… :hmmm:… doesn’t seem like very good “father” material to me.
 
NeedImprovement said:
I find it odd that God would choose for an earthly (yet virginal) father someone who would simply abandon these so called “children from a previous marriage” and flee to Egypt with Jesus and Mary. [Matt 2:13]

… :hmmm:… doesn’t seem like very good “father” material to me.
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According to other texts of the time, such as the Protoevangelium of James, Joseph’s children were already adults when he married Mary. Joseph was said to be a widower and was chosen to be Mary’s husband.
 
Isaiah 7:14, the Virgin prophesied to bear a Son, is prophetic of the Virgin Mary and Jesus Christ. God challenged King Hezekiah to ask Him for a miracle to witness to His power to turn back the enemy that outnumbered him. Hezekiah was overwhelmed by God’s unlimited offer that he demand any miracle, any miracle whatsoever. Humbled, he refused. So God Himself chose the Miracle of Miracles: the Virgin bearing a Son. When God pronounces something, it is an absolute. The Virgin Mary was an absolute Virgin, not kinda…sorta…maybe… The Blessed Virgin Mary and her Son, Jesus Christ, fulfill Isaiah 7:14 absolutely. Wanna squabble about the translation of Isaiah meaning “virgin”? Wanna explain what’s the big whoop about a “young woman” having a child?
 
spsteve said:
hi everybody,

i have an issue befor me which i need a solution

i know mary had no other child but jesus i need biblical proves to defend myself

thank you all.
Click to expand...
Consider these responses on another thread:
  1. "… Only recently have protestants been denying the perpetual virginity of Mary. But in the early years and centuries protestants also upheld the perpetual virginity of Mary. They did so until it became “too Catholic” for protestants to do so. So they reinterpreted the scriptures by forcing a strict interpretation of the Greek word adelphos to mean a sibling brother. Now a strict interpretation is warranted if it can be shown that every time adelphos is used it is used to denote a sibling. However, if it can be shown where the word is obviously not used to mean a sibling then the strict interpretation is erroneous. So is there such as case in the NT scriptures? Actually the scriptures are full of instances where adelphos is used to denote other than a sibling. Do a word search using brother or brethren in the KJV and you will see them. But two examples will suffice here. First is Gal 1:10 where Paul says, “But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother.” Here Paul meets Peter and one of the two Apostles named James who Paul says is the Lord’s brother adelphos]. Now were one of the two Apostles named James actually Jesus’ sibling brother and the son of Mary and Joseph? The answer is no because one Apostle named James was the sibling of the Apostle John and they were sons of Zebedee. The other Apostle named James was the son of Alphaeus. See Mt 10:2-3 for verification. So this Apostle named James was not a sibling brother of Jesus. The second example is contained in Jesus’ words to Peter in Luke 22: 31-32:
" 31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. "

There the word ‘brethren’ is adelphos. Is Jesus saying that all the Apostles are siblings of Peter? We know only one, Andrew, was Peter’s sibling brother. Obviously Jesus is not using adelphos to mean a sibling brother. But there are plenty of other examples where *adelphos *is used and does not mean a sibling brother. In Php 2:25 Paul calls Epaphroditus, “my brother” but they were not related. Paul calls Timothy a brother in Col 1:1 but again they were not related. In Col 4:7 Tychicus is his brother while in Col 4:9 his brother is Onesimus. In Phm 1:20 Pauls calls Philemon his brother and in 1Co 1:1 Sosthenes is his brother while in 1Co 16:12 Apollo is his brother. And to belabor the point even more in 2Co 2:13 Titus is Paul’s brother. Paul calls all of these people his brothers adelphos] but in reality not a single one of them was his sibling.

Meanwhile the arguments for Jesus being the only child of Mary have a lot of merit. In the scriptures no one but Jesus is called a child of Mary. There is no mention of any other children when Jesus was found in the temple nor at the wedding feast at Cana. Mary was there Jesus was there even Jesus disciples were there but where are the other siblings? Funny that they were not invited. Where are the brothers to take care of Mary and why does Jesus then give her to John? But the most compelling argument, to me at least, is in Mary’s words to the angel at the announciation. In Luke 1:38 we read:

"And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her. " [Luke 1:38]

Mary calls herself a “handmaid” of the Lord. The Greek word translated as handmaid is doule and it means a bondswoman, a handmaid, a female slave. The idea communicated by this word is that of ownership or dedication. Mary is dedicated to the Lord and to no other man. As such she will not have other children."

.
2.“There is a big elephant in the room that I believe, no one has mentioned thus far. That is the absence of anyone at any time in history claiming the bragging rights that they were a sibling or a blood relative of Jesus Christ. If ever there was a name to be dropped by name droppers then Jesus of Nazareth is it. Even if you married someone who had a friend whose third cousin’s husband was a cousin of Jesus 20 zillion times removed you would have bragging rights. Yet throughout history there is an absolute vacuum, a silence that is complete. No one ever made such a claim. In the early church where various cities bragged they had the body of this Apostle or that Saint or that they received the Gospel from this or that Apostle there are two claims never made. No place claimed they had the body of Mary and no one claimed to be Jesus’ relative.”
 
NotWorthy said:
OK, I detect the faint whiff of sarcasm here.
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No, the church is clear on this, the protestants that say the bible says Jesus had brothers and sisters are WRONG. There is a link below that explains it better than I can, the hebrews didn’t have a word for “brother” and they didn’t have a word for “cousin” (they would say ben-dod - son of my uncle). Of course the scriptures were written in greek that did have a word both for brother and cousin but because the writers were confused from the Hebrew they used the word “brother” when what they MEANT was “cousin”.

The link explains it better than me, sorry I wasn’t explaining myself very well. I get upset when people question the word.
 
Cashue said:
yes, those scriptures are clear, the people are speaking about Jesus brothers and sisters so clearly people understood that Jesus was raised with COUSINS that were the children of Joseph from his first marriage.

Also we know Mary was a virgin her whole life because Saint Matthew says 1:25 Joseph “He had no relations with her until she bore a son…” the word UNTIL clearly indicates that Mary never ever had sex with Joseph.

The bible is clear on that, Mary died a virgin never having had sex or any other children.
Click to expand...
If jesus’ brothers were children of Joseph from a first marriage they would not be ‘cousins’, they would be no relation to Jesus. To be half brothers they would have to have at least one common parent and to be cousins they would have to have parents who were either brothers or sisters. They are, however, regarded in Jewish society as Jesus brothers because Jesus is considered to be a son of Joseph.
 
Cashue said:
No, the church is clear on this, the protestants that say the bible says Jesus had brothers and sisters are WRONG. There is a link below that explains it better than I can, the hebrews didn’t have a word for “brother” and they didn’t have a word for “cousin” (they would say ben-dod - son of my uncle). Of course the scriptures were written in greek that did have a word both for brother and cousin but because the writers were confused from the Hebrew they used the word “brother” when what they MEANT was “cousin”.

The link explains it better than me, sorry I wasn’t explaining myself very well. I get upset when people question the word.
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And what link is that?

Cashue, I’m still having trouble believing that you are sincere. “The writers were confused?!?” The Holy Spirit-inspired writers of the New Testament were confused?!?! Really?
 
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