Split: Social Justice, how does it apply to wealthy individuals

[catholictiger]

alright I wanted to go ahead and move this topic away from another post on this board about the Church being to “wealthy” and not doing what Jesus said.

anyway we stared to talk about some social justice issues. Specifically what should a wealthy man do with his money. Is it morally responsible is it a good use of money to spend everything on you. Buying expressive house, car, tv and such. On the other side would it be better to live simply and donate the money to charitable organizations. So you would buy a middle class home well bellow your price range, have old paid off car, and so on and so forth. The extra money you have you donate.

I brought up hans von balthasar, who talked about this idea of tensions. He had three main tensions atleast in theological anthropology, Body and spirit, individual and community, and man and women. The important tensions at stake here is individual and community. It is important to be in the middle somewhere, to much in the community the individual is forgotten to much individual community is forgotten. Note I don’t know if I can find any stuff online of this guy but he does talk about this in theological antrophology.

this is from the Catechism

Society ensures social justice when it provides the conditions that allow associations or individuals to obtain what is their due, according to their nature and their vocation. Social justice is linked to the common good and the exercise of authority.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html

about is the compendium of the social doctrine of the catholic church.

all should be taken into consideration when talking about this stuff.

 

[charliedrake]

Since when is it moral to tell anyone how to spend their money and worse covet their wealth. The more wealthy a society the more resources we have to help the poor. No one is motivated to work all day simply to have govt confiscate their income. Society needs more makers and less takers or else the entire ship sinks.

Problem number one is a jobless economy of Obama.

 

[CatholicPraises]

Productive americans should work period. It’s against all logic to expect someone to go to school, colleges , work long hours to achieve success just to turn over the rewards of success to a others sitting on the couch all day abusing a welfare system.

Jesus taught us you reap what you sow. It’s immoral to expect the labor of someone else to support your financial lifestyle.

 

[catholictiger]

let me ask you two a simple question why do you assume when I say assist the poor you have the government come to mind. Atleast it appears that way.

lets for a second forget government and lets just look at should a wealthy individual donate some of his money to the poor. IT can be in any form, to charitable organizations that go and roll up their sleeves to help the poor. Or investing in some person who is poor but is going to try and start up a business. No Government over site no Governemnt Aid. Just look at the idea of people giving up their excess to charities, whose main goals to help the poor.

Now to your individual posts

Productive americans should work period. It’s against all logic to expect someone to go to school, colleges , work long hours to achieve success just to turn over the rewards of success to a others sitting on the couch all day abusing a welfare system.

let me first make clear that I am not saying the government should come and “rediribute” wealth but wealthy individuals should still donate money to charities at the least. The Old Testament talked all the time about justice to the poor, you weren’t looked so highly By God if you didn’t rest the poor with justice.

the same applies today we must treat the poor with justice

but why do you think its better for someone to hold on to their money instead of someone giving out of at-least their excess.

Jesus taught us you reap what you sow. It’s immoral to expect the labor of someone else to support your financial lifestyle.

Jesus also wouldn’t like if you let some homeless man die because you didn’t want to give of your excess to help the man.

remember the neighbor was to the beat up man on the side of the road in the bible. The one who stopped and helped him.

Since when is it moral to tell anyone how to spend their money and worse covet their wealth

again I’m not saying the government should redistribute their wealth. But people with wealth should somehow give to the poor, it doesn’t have to be monetary but they must help the poor in some way.

The more wealthy a society the more resources we have to help the poor

that is true do you remember the tension I explained with the individual and community. It is important to remember tension doesn’t mean drama or disagree meant its like a rope you have to keep tension to keep the rope up. ITs the same way here.

I think we should work to make society better get more jobs and so on and so forth. BUT we still have to help the poor.

No one is motivated to work all day simply to have govt confiscate their income. Society needs more makers and less takers or else the entire ship sinks.

again let me make this clear I am not saying the government should come in an take peoples wealth BUT people should help the poor.

 

[jmcrae]

St. Augustine (who certainly could not have visualized a welfare system) once said, “Find out how much God has given you and from it take what you need; the remainder is needed by others.”

Saint Augustine

 

[yablabo]

jmcrae is onto something with St. Augustine’s quotation.

Private property is the right of the individual and his family…and part of private property is a man’s earnings/wealth. It is also true that a man was given this gift of earnings by God and should understandably be expected to give something of it to the Church. However, beyond that, it’s no other man’s business what a “wealthy” man does within his liberties with his earnings. It is a matter of the “wealthy” man’s internal forum and no one outside him can judge his prudential judgment (as long as he is not doing something certainly immoral).

– Nicole

 

[charliedrake]

let me ask you two a simple question why do you assume when I say assist the poor you have the government come to mind. Atleast it appears that way.

lets for a second forget government and lets just look at should a wealthy individual donate some of his money to the poor. IT can be in any form, to charitable organizations that go and roll up their sleeves to help the poor. Or investing in some person who is poor but is going to try and start up a business. No Government over site no Governemnt Aid. Just look at the idea of people giving up their excess to charities, whose main goals to help the poor.

Now to your individual posts

let me first make clear that I am not saying the government should come and “rediribute” wealth but wealthy individuals should still donate money to charities at the least. The Old Testament talked all the time about justice to the poor, you weren’t looked so highly By God if you didn’t rest the poor with justice.

the same applies today we must treat the poor with justice

but why do you think its better for someone to hold on to their money instead of someone giving out of at-least their excess.

Jesus also wouldn’t like if you let some homeless man die because you didn’t want to give of your excess to help the man.

remember the neighbor was to the beat up man on the side of the road in the bible. The one who stopped and helped him.

again I’m not saying the government should redistribute their wealth. But people with wealth should somehow give to the poor, it doesn’t have to be monetary but they must help the poor in some way.

that is true do you remember the tension I explained with the individual and community. It is important to remember tension doesn’t mean drama or disagree meant its like a rope you have to keep tension to keep the rope up. ITs the same way here.

I think we should work to make society better get more jobs and so on and so forth. BUT we still have to help the poor.

again let me make this clear I am not saying the government should come in an take peoples wealth BUT people should help the poor.

The only way to help the poor is jobs, we cant have a society where we have more people expecting hand out then productive Americans to feed them
The consequence of your believes greatly harms and expands the quantity of poor people.

 

[Langdell]

So you would buy a middle class home well bellow your price range, have old paid off car, and so on and so forth.

I realize this is not the idea behind this thread, but I just wanted to mention that this is good advice regardless of how you feel about charity.

 

[catholictiger]

The only way to help the poor is jobs, we cant have a society where we have more people expecting hand out then productive Americans to feed them
The consequence of your believes greatly harms and expands the quantity of poor people.

the only way, yes it can help but while those poor people are unemployed I think it would be good if we atleast set up some organizations who can feed them, give them finical aid if necessary. Give them a place to live if they are homeless. So on and so forth. Jobs should be the focus I agree, but not so much the focus that those while struggling to find jobs are left on the street to die.

 

[charliedrake]

the only way, yes it can help but while those poor people are unemployed I think it would be good if we atleast set up some organizations who can feed them, give them finical aid if necessary. Give them a place to live if they are homeless. So on and so forth. Jobs should be the focus I agree, but not so much the focus that those while struggling to find jobs are left on the street to die.

We have entitlements for the poor from birth till death, one can live off the govt and taxpayers their whole life. We should have short term safety nets and protect the handicapped.

But it is immoral for the abuse you espouse with welfare for productive people who are capable of taking care of themselves. Coveting thy neighbors wealth is a sin.

Amen.

 

[yablabo]

the only way, yes it can help but while those poor people are unemployed I think it would be good if we atleast set up some organizations who can feed them, give them finical aid if necessary. Give them a place to live if they are homeless. So on and so forth. Jobs should be the focus I agree, but not so much the focus that those while struggling to find jobs are left on the street to die.

The organization to take care of this already exists. It’s called the Catholic Church…and part of ministering to these people in need is the job of the deacons and active religious.

– Nicole

 

[catholictiger]

The organization to take care of this already exists. It’s called the Catholic Church…and part of ministering to these people in need is the job of the deacons and active religious.

– Nicole

lay people should play an important role as well, religious can only do so much

 

[yablabo]

lay people should play an important role as well, religious can only do so much

There are laity who serve the religious in their single stations…but the married have to remember their households first and foremost. They don’t have the same liberties as the single/unmarried.

– Nicole

 

[catholictiger]

There are laity who serve the religious in their single stations…but the married have to remember their households first and foremost. They don’t have the same liberties as the single/unmarried.

– Nicole

the layity are not excluded from assisting the poor

yes they are a part of their family community. That is the most basic and fundamental part of all societies, and they should take care of that.

BUT they are still part of the overall community. The city, the Catholic Community and so on and so forth.

plus most religious communities wouldn’t survive without the lay aspect.

 

[Julia_Mae]

from: poverty.com/

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger or hunger-related causes, according to the United Nations. This is one person every three and a half seconds, as you can see on this display. Unfortunately, it is children who die most often.

Now, what did you need to buy, again?

 

[catholictiger]

from: poverty.com/

About 25,000 people die every day of hunger or hunger-related causes, according to the United Nations. This is one person every three and a half seconds, as you can see on this display. Unfortunately, it is children who die most often.

Now, what did you need to buy, again?

miniature-earth.com/

have you seen this video very eye opening and takes you life into perspective how well off you are, even if you believe you are not that well off yourself.

even someone who is considered by america poor, if they have a roof over their heads, a fridge a closet and a bed they are better off then 75% of the world.

btw creating a handful of Jobs while it will make some people better off it will never, even if you want to think so help those people who are truly poor.

 

[Julia_Mae]

btw creating a handful of Jobs while it will make some people better off it will never, even if you want to think so help those people who are truly poor.

Luckily we have underutilized but quite effective people who do know how to redistribute resources to the starving if they simply get the resources. Consistent individual personal sacrifice and support gives lives.

What every person needs to know is: you can save a life and change it forever. You can. The idea of “we can’t” is why 100 children died while I was typing this.

We can.

 

[yablabo]

from: poverty.com/

Now, what did you need to buy, again?

Do you realize that this means that approximately 91.25 billion people (91,250,000) die every ten years due to hunger related issues alone (not to mention other natural deaths)? Do you really believe this statistic?

I wonder what we’re doing with all the bodies!! Soylent Green??

– Nicole

 

[catholictiger]

Do you realize that this means that approximately 91.25 billion people (91,250,000) die every ten years due to hunger related issues alone (not to mention other natural deaths)? Do you really believe this statistic?

I wonder what we’re doing with all the bodies!! Soylent Green??

– Nicole

your math is off

its actually 9.125 million people every year

according to this site

poodwaddle.com/clocks/worldclock/

year to date 56.662 million people have died

and 130.592 people have been born that means about 74 million people have been added to the world

meaning in this year 1% of the total population of the world have been added to the world’s population

when you think about it on the large scale the data makes sense.

 

[yablabo]

your math is off

its actually 9.125 million people every year

according to this site

poodwaddle.com/clocks/worldclock/

year to date 56.662 million people have died

and 130.592 people have been born that means about 74 million people have been added to the world

meaning in this year 1% of the total population of the world have been added to the world’s population

when you think about it on the large scale the data makes sense.

Hi, my reply was based on the number who die every ten years, not every year.

Thanks for the reply.

– Nicole