SPLIT: St. Loius De Montfort's "different Gospel"

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I am wondering if any of you have ever compared the writings of Louis de Montfort with scritpure. I find that what Louis has to say is a very different gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In trying to find a starting point in which to speak to the differences, it seems reasonable to begin with what appears to be Louis basing his beliefs on a very false premise, namely from his "INTRODUCTION OF SAINT LOUIS MARY DE MONTFORT:
  1. It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world."
    (Take from jesus-passion.com/TrueDevotion.htm#TREATISE%20ON%20TRUE%20DEVOTION )
Really? Jesus must reign in the world through Mary? Where is there anything in scripture to even mildly suggest something like that?

Let’s not forget who Jesus was and is and will forever be. How dare we even to entertain the thought that the King of kings, Lord of lords, and the one whose " name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. - from Isaiah 9:6) must reign in this world through one who is subject to Him!
 
FairLady

Mary - The new Eve; the Immaculate Conception, sanctified by God before she was conceived in the womb.

Mary - Mother of Christ

Mary - Mother of the Church

It’s through Christ that we receive Mary, it’s through Mary we receive Christ.

It’s all in Scripture. The Catholic Church proclaims the Word of God, and couldn’t do it without Mary having said “Yes” It’s all interconnected, like one great spiritual cloth. You cannot lift one piece without the rest being moved. Elevate one part and everything is lifted closer to God.
 
KEVIN_WILCOX said:
FairLady

Mary - The new Eve; the Immaculate Conception, sanctified by God before she was conceived in the womb.

Mary - Mother of Christ

Mary - Mother of the Church

It’s through Christ that we receive Mary, it’s through Mary we receive Christ.

It’s all in Scripture. The Catholic Church proclaims the Word of God, and couldn’t do it without Mary having said “Yes” It’s all interconnected, like one great spiritual cloth. You cannot lift one piece without the rest being moved. Elevate one part and everything is lifted closer to God.
Click to expand...
Mary was used as a vessel to bring Jesus into the world as a human baby. But getting back to what de Montfort said - “it is also through her that he must reign in the world”, that is absolutely unsubstantiated in scripture.
 
Fair_Lady said:
Mary was used as a vessel to bring Jesus into the world as a human baby. But getting back to what de Montfort said - “it is also through her that he must reign in the world”, that is absolutely unsubstantiated in scripture.
Click to expand...
Especially the word ‘must’.
 
watching the thread train derail once again… 😦

sigh And this was such a simple, lovely, subject…

I could say more, but it’s too obvious already so I’ll leave it at that. 🙂
 
Fair_Lady said:
I am wondering if any of you have ever compared the writings of Louis de Montfort with scritpure. I find that what Louis has to say is a very different gospel than the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In trying to find a starting point in which to speak to the differences, it seems reasonable to begin with what appears to be Louis basing his beliefs on a very false premise, namely from his "INTRODUCTION OF SAINT LOUIS MARY DE MONTFORT:
  1. It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world."
    (Take from jesus-passion.com/TrueDevotion.htm#TREATISE%20ON%20TRUE%20DEVOTION )
Really? Jesus must reign in the world through Mary? Where is there anything in scripture to even mildly suggest something like that?

Let’s not forget who Jesus was and is and will forever be. How dare we even to entertain the thought that the King of kings, Lord of lords, and the one whose " name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. - from Isaiah 9:6) must reign in this world through one who is subject to Him!
Click to expand...
Major Objection: Jesus, the One Mediator?
Opponents of the doctrine, particularly our non-Catholic brethren, cite the famous passage from Timothy, saying that Mary cannot be Mediatrix because Jesus is the ONLY mediator between God and men: “…for there is but one God and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as redemption” (1 Timothy 2:5-6).
To clarify, however, the Greek word used for “one” in the passage is eis, which means “first” or “primary” not monos, which means “only” or “sole”.

Pope Leo XIII, Iucunda semper, said:
“… when He [the Father] has been invoked with excellent prayers, our humble voice turns to Mary; in accordance with no other law than that law of conciliation and petition which was expressed as follows by St. Bernardine of Siena : ‘Every grace that is communicated to this world has a threefold course. For by excellent order, it is dispensed from God to Christ, from Christ to the Virgin, from the Virgin to us.’”
 
Louis de Montfort (I refuse to call him a saint) has presented “another gospel”. Every single one of us has a choice. Do we believe him or do we seek the truth in scripture and believe the Author of the word of God?
 
Fair_Lady said:
Louis de Montfort (I refuse to call him a saint) has presented “another gospel”. Every single one of us has a choice. Do we believe him or do we seek the truth in scripture and believe the Author of the word of God?
Click to expand...
If you have a problem with SAINT Louis de Monfort, I suggest you start a new thread yourself and stop going off subject on this thread.

I’m sure you’ll find many people who would love to argue with you on the subject.
 
Fair_Lady said:
Louis de Montfort (I refuse to call him a saint) has presented “another gospel”. Every single one of us has a choice. Do we believe him or do we seek the truth in scripture and believe the Author of the word of God?
Click to expand...
I’ve read Montfort and I read Scripture. I’ve read Martin Luther and John Calvin.

I’ve yet to conclude that they are not all in total agreement on Montfort’s spirituality that highlights the Incarnation of Jesus Christ by His Virgin Mother.

And the Protestant Reformers did accept that scripture-based meditation and conclusions drawn from that meditation is an acceptable method of determining the elements of Christian Faith.

That is what Montfort has done. My experience with Montfort has revolutionized my relationship with Christ the God-Man.

It may not be for everyone. But we should never presume to think another Christian’s way of approaching God is not a good one for him/her and for others who follow it.

John Wesley’s spirituality is another case in point.

Alex
 
CatholicFireman said:
If you have a problem with SAINT Louis de Monfort, I suggest you start a new thread yourself and stop going off subject on this thread.

I’m sure you’ll find many people who would love to argue with you on the subject.
Click to expand...
And I see the moderators were kind enough to split the thread. Have fun.
 
Fair_Lady said:
Louis de Montfort (I refuse to call him a saint)
has presented “another gospel”. Every single one of us has a choice. Do we believe him or do we seek the truth in scripture and believe the Author of the word of God?
Click to expand...
Because St. Louis de Montfort often writes poetically and allegorically, and does not use King James text to present the Gospel, are you concluding he is presenting another gospel? Jesus, the Son of God, was born through a human being, full of grace. Am I presenting part of a different gospel too?
  1. Because Mary remained hidden during her life she is called by the Holy Spirit and the Church “Alma Mater”, Mother hidden and unknown. So great was her humility that she desired nothing more upon earth than to remain unknown to herself and to others, and to be known only to God.
Mother hidden and unknown. Is that derived from scripture? Lets find out.

Luke 1
39And Mary arose in those days, and went into the hill country with haste, into a city of Juda;
40And entered into the house of Zacharias, and saluted Elisabeth.
41And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
43And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
44For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.
45And blessed is she that believed: for there shall be a performance of those things which were told her from the Lord.
46And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord,
47And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
48For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. 49For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name.

Is Mary bragging of herself? I can see “Alma Mater” in these verses but are you closed to a deeper meaning of scripture that transcends King James text? Why do “Bible Christians” almost never quote these verses? Are you seeking the truth in scripture or are you asserting a paradigm of opinions?

What does your scripture say about Author of the “word of God”? Where in scripture does “word of God” mean only the written word? NOWHERE.

Bible Gateway shows this phrase “word of God” appears 48 times in the King James Bible. You can read the list for yourself here. Not once is “word of God” restricted to the written word only. Are you seeking the the truth of scripture or are you asserting the opinions of men as to what the “word of God” means? Who is presenting a different gospel now? Prove to me what you mean by “word of God” as just what is written, by scripture alone, and I will take your criticism of St. Louis de Montfort seriously.
 
Fair_Lady said:
Do we believe him or do we seek the truth in scripture and believe the Author of the word of God?
Click to expand...
You’re not making sense to me. What’s with the ultraconservative, hyperminimalist, downright Sadduccean if you ask me, obsession with limiting everything to just what happened to get written down?
 
Fair_Lady said:
“…1. It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.”
(Take from jesus-passion.com/TrueDevotion.htm#TREATISE%20ON%20TRUE%20DEVOTION )

Really? Jesus must reign in the world through Mary? Where is there anything in scripture to even mildly suggest something like that?

Let’s not forget who Jesus was and is and will forever be. How dare we even to entertain the thought that the King of kings, Lord of lords, and the one whose " name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. - from Isaiah 9:6) must reign in this world through one who is subject to Him!
Click to expand...
Jesus reigns. St. Louis de Montfort is not suggesting anything less. The very idea that Jesus is subject to Mary is perposterous, a wild conclusion, a heresy, and a total MISREPRESENTATION of St. Louis de Montfort.

President Obama “reigns” the United States through congress. A CEO “reigns” over a corporation through various managers. The kings of the Davidic kingdom down thorugh the centuries “reigned” over the earthly kingdom through their mother, the queen. This idea was not foreign to the Jews of Jesus time. Scripture shows the subordinate (but significant) role of of the mother of the king who reigned over the Davidic Kingdom. You can’t have a king without a queen. You can’t take away Mary’s queenship with detracting from Jesus’ kingship.

1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.

1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King’s followers. She is the Queen Mother (or “Gebirah”). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.

1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.

1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel’s royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.

2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.

Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
  1. It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world
    St. Louis de Montfort has it right. You just misunderstood and ran with false conclusions. But this tiny post is by no means comprehensive. By being open minded and honest about what scripture says about Mary, you may discover see scriptures exploding into a vast array of dazzling fireworks. If you are content with just reading the package the fireworks comes in, well… there’s not much to say.
 
I think this thread is, like some other threads have done, being reduced to an argument for and against Sola Scriptura - who has rights to interpretation of Scripture, and is the Church infallible in dogma.

What is suggested is similar to the argument about what happens at Holy Mass (Transubstantiation). The Catholics take the words of our Lord literally - and if they err on interpretation, is it wrong to love Him too much? The same with Our Lady - Is it wrong to love her too much? Can one love too much?
I would rather cause offense with an overabundance of love than be wrong by abandonment and neglect.
 
Fair_Lady said:
Mary was used as a vessel to bring Jesus into the world as a human baby. But getting back to what de Montfort said - “it is also through her that he must reign in the world”, that is absolutely unsubstantiated in scripture.
Click to expand...
Mary was used as a vessel?

What does that mean exactly and where does scripture say that?
 
Fair_Lady said:
Mary was used as a vessel to bring Jesus into the world as a human baby. But getting back to what de Montfort said - “it is also through her that he must reign in the world”, that is absolutely unsubstantiated in scripture.
Click to expand...
Really? So as a mother of three, all I am is a ‘vessel’ who brought children into the world? I really AM an ordinary woman (unlike Mary), and yet if somebody referred to me in those terms it would be pretty insulting. For a woman (you are a woman presumably with the moniker Fair Lady) to speak of another woman in such terms is surprising. Especially to speak of somebody who (from the bible) spoke that ‘Henceforth all shall call me ever-blessed.’ Not, "ever vessel’.
 
KEVIN_WILCOX said:
I think this thread is, like some other threads have done, being reduced to an argument for and against Sola Scriptura - who has rights to interpretation of Scripture, and is the Church infallible in dogma.
Click to expand...
Kevin, I’m beginning to see how 99% of these objections boil down to the same old thing, the rejection of Church authority, and for that you have to replace it with either the Bible or good old fashioned relativistic radical skepticism.
 
Fideism - Faith independent of reason
Modernism - Reason independent of Faith

A healthy Church theology needs both Faith and reason working together in co-operation.

Church relations sometimes come down to the school playground principle: An attack on one’s mother (e.g. “I don’t like you, so I’ll get at you by insulting your mother”) In this case, a protestant not liking the Catholic Church, so it’s the same old, “I’ll attack your mother” (in this case, Mary)

Man has always (since the Genesis account) fought for superiority to God (e.g. “Jesus came to give us salvation.” Not according to Jesus, he came that his Father may be glorified. According to him the salvation of Man was secondary)
 
Fair Lady

Yes, Mary was/and is a vessel of honour, and she was/and is perpetually virgin not perpetually pregnant she gave/and gives birth to Jesus.

She is “full of grace” - a conduit of all grace and gateway to Heaven. Her “Yes” is her abandoning herself totally to God.
 
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