SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

[Cal_Fullerton]

Here it is:
John 14:12
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

 

[ncgolf]

flesh and blood point to Christ as the crucified one and the source of life. Jesus speaks of faith’s appropriation of himself as God’s appointed sacrifice, not—at least not directly—of any ritual requirement.

Read Exodus and look at what happened to those who did not eat the ritualistic sacrifice of the Passover Lamb. That was just a lamb, how much more severe the consequences for not eating the True Paschal Lamb. The sacrifices had to be eaten.

Wonder what would of happened if someone would have taken Moses figuratively

There were no lamb shaped cookies or pressed lamb … those would not do. You had to eat the sacrifice or suffer the consequences.

 

[dandingo]

Here it is:
John 14:12
I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.

You’re welcome. I’m glad I could help.

I really wish we focused on that verse more. It’s so incredibly powerful. Jesus states that we will actually do greater things than Him!

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

the Bishops of the CC. . . . only they are called to preserve and pass on the Truth.

The Mormon Church teaches that the only people qualified by God to lay hands on people to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit to be a constant companion are in the Mormon Church.

How can you prove to me that the Catholic Church has more authority than the Mormon Church?

 

[wisdomseeker]

The Mormon Church teaches that the only people qualified by God to lay hands on people to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit to be a constant companion are in the Mormon Church.

How can you prove to me that the Catholic Church has more authority than the Mormon Church?

Hummmm…do you have any witness that testify to the mormons from the beginning of the Church? do they hold the Apostles in high regard like the CC does? do they claim the to have the Chair of St Peter? they teach what the Apostles teach? do you see them having any authority over the nations like the CC has? do they have the line of succession like the CC does? succession is recorded in teh Bible from the Beginning. no one takes anything from God. God choses a people to teaches others. He did this from the beginning.

Do you know when the mormons started? do you know when the CC started? do your research? Jesus started His Church. do mormons claim that Jesus found their congregation of believers? do you believe that God sent a prophet to start a church?

 

[wisdomseeker]

You know Cal, you should thank God for Catholics. God has given Catholics the gift of patience, endurance, and perseverance, and a Holy Faith to tolerate so much disbelief.

 

[wisdomseeker]

The Mormon Church teaches that the only people qualified by God to lay hands on people to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit to be a constant companion are in the Mormon Church.

How can you prove to me that the Catholic Church has more authority than the Mormon Church?

Do you think that after Jesus found His Church, God would send a prophet to build another church to keep people out of the Church Jesus found?

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

There, i have read the Bible and found this. Protestants pick Verses of the Bible with no regards for others. I am sure they avoid them because it cannot apply to them.

I’m glad you’re reading the Bible. It is food for our spirits. It strengthens the faith through which we receive the blessings of God, doesn’t it?

Luke 10:16, Jesus said, “He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”

Now do you think that Jesus is saying this to you or to His Church? which one do you think we should listen? Not the Bible, He is not telling us to read the Bible but to hear from.

So, answer me who sent you to teach or preach to any one? the Bible does not send anyone.

Jesus was speaking to the seventy-two that he sent out. We can also apply his words to anyone who is preaching his gospel.

You said, “Not the Bible, He is not telling us to read the Bible but to hear from.”

I don’t understand that sentence.
I believe virtually all Christians are called to spread the gospel—as you folks are all doing. You aren’t an ordained minister, are you, Wisdomseeker?

"Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the
Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached
by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers. On this was the Church founded;
and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian."
St. Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 359 A.D…

Are you accusing me of not being a Christian? This is what turns me off more than anything. My daughter-in-law is Catholic but she knows I am a Christian. She knows me a lot better than you do.
I will turn the other cheek.

 

[PRmerger]

PR, I think you’re confusing my point. The whole Bible is true and important (I’m glad you read it, by the way) but I’m looking for verses that specifically say such and such is something you must do or say or believe or you cannot enter the kingdom of God on this earth, or in the next life.

Ah, very good, then. You are not talking about “essential doctrines” that all Christians must agree on?

You are talking about what we must do to be saved?

Here’s what the Catholic Church proclaims you must do/believe in order to receive salvation:

We are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By his Cross (Eph 2:16; Col 2:14)

Are you agreed on this, Cal?

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

“Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all may say the same thing; and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be perfectly united in One mind and in One judgment.” 1Cor 1:10

Do you think this is describing protestantism?

Oh, no, the next comment in line is wisdomseeker again! I’m kidding. I still love you, wisdomseeker. I have no reason to doubt that your name describes you. You’re going in the right direction.

When Pope John Paul II was in Cameroon one time, he asked twenty-six leaders of several denominations, “Indeed, is it not the duty of every follower of Christ to work for the unity of all Christians?”

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

I have about one minute before dinner.
wisdomseeker mentioned a verse about private interpretation.
I think he’s misinterpreting the verse.
In any case, in the charismatic movement we stress the importance of everyone learning to distinguish the voice of God from that of the devil. Jesus said, “My sheep know my voice.”

The Catholic Church seems to stress more the traditions and authority of their leaders.

out of time. . . .

God is good!

 

[wisdomseeker]

Oh, no, the next comment in line is wisdomseeker again! I’m kidding. I still love you, wisdomseeker. I have no reason to doubt that your name describes you. You’re going in the right direction.

When Pope John Paul II was in Cameroon one time, he asked twenty-six leaders of several denominations, “Indeed, is it not the duty of every follower of Christ to work for the unity of all Christians?”

Why then do you reject the calling of the Church found by Christ and submit yourselves to One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church? just like we Catholics do?

 

[PRmerger]

You are listing doctrines that are very basic but not doctrines that are stated by the Bible to be essential (mandatory) for justification (acceptance by God, forgiveness of sins). For example, there is no verse in the Bible that says, “Those who do not believe God is love are not in God,” or, “Anyone who believes there is more than one god will be condemned to eternal darkness and destruction on Judgment Day.”

Exactly. And to say that there are “essential doctrines” is to hold an extra-Scriptural paradigm, as the Scriptures do not say what are essential doctrines.

IOW: If one believes that there are (and there are indeed “essential doctrines”), it is only through an extra-biblical authority that you know this–i.e. through the Church.

At issue here is John 6:53 where Jesus mentions an essential requirement for entering eternal life or maintaining that life. He says, “Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.”

Amen!

The Catholic Church’s interpretation of John 6:53 cannot be so because if participation in the Holy Catholic Communion—no matter how powerful it is—were an indispensable requirement for living in Christ,

And it is. We cannot change the words of Christ, even if we’d like to.

then Jesus was wrong earlier in John 6. John 6:28-29 says,

They asked him, ‘What must we do to do the works God requires?’ Jesus answered, ‘The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.’

How so? How does the Catholic Church’s belief in John 6:53 contradict John 6:28-29

Catholic Communion is apparently great. My ex-Catholic wife says it has been her experience that communion is more powerful in the Catholic Church than in Protestant churches. But if participation in Catholic Communion were necessary for salvation, then all the Protestants who are doing the work that God requires by believing in the one (Jesus) God has sent (John 6:29), are not justified and would go to hell if they died today.

We never say as Catholics who is going to hell. That’s not permitted by my Church. Surely you were aware of that, right?

If not, I urge you to look for any Church documents that says the Church has declared to know who is in hell. If you find a name of any non-Catholic person who the Church has discerned to be in hell, please provide the link for all of us to see here.

Have a great day, PR. We have our Thanksgiving table all set for the company to begin arriving tomorrow. Our Father is truly worthy of all our thanks!

Right back at 'cha!

 

[PRmerger]

How can you prove to me that the Catholic Church has more authority than the Mormon Church?

Each and every time you quote Scripture–which was discerned for you, codified, and preserved for you by the Catholic Church–you are proving that the Catholic Church has authority.

And when you don’t quote from the Book of Mormon (as being theopneustos), you are acknowledging that it doesn’t have authority.

 

[adventbeliever]

I would like to submit to you that in the bread of the Lord’s supper, we do not receive the body of the Lord any more than we do in an ordinary meal, providing of course that the meal is of that which the Lord Himself gives us to eat. The Lord’s supper contains a lesson on health reform, in that it teaches us how to eat and drink. It sets the pattern for every meal! “This is My body.” “This is My blood.”

Since according to 1 Cor.11:30 failure to discern the Lord’s body is the cause why many are weak and sickly, and why many die, it follows that if the Lord’s body were discerned, the opposite would be the case. If men discerned the Lord’s body in the provisions for their daily life, they would find strength and health!

The Lord Jesus took bread, gave thanks, and said, “This is My body.” This occured when they were eating. The bread was the ordinary unleavened bread that they had on the table, and such it was after Jesus had given thanks; then He took the cup, and said, “This is My blood.” It was ordinary grape juice that they had on the table, and such it was after Jesus had given thanks.

It is utterly useless to spend time arguing, what is true enough, that the catholic priest has not the power to change the bread into the body of Christ; for the scripture tells us that it is that already. “This is My body.” There is no magic whatever about the matter. To be sure, the partaking of the body and the blood of Christ in the Lord’s Supper is absolutely independent of any action of any priest or minister!

Therefore, as we partake of the provisions for our daily life, we are to remember that we live by the life of God and that the Lord’s Supper is a public confession of the fact, for it is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air, and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our strength. The words of Christ in John 6:53 are true of our physical nature.

The knowledge of this truth sanctifies and glorifies eating and drinking. He who lives in constant recognition of it, eats and drinks to the glory of God. He eats and drinks by faith. The man who does not day by day recognize the flesh and blood of Christ in His gifts, eats and drinks damnation to himself. 1 Cor.11:29.

“Man that is in honour and understandeth not, is like the beast that perish.” Psalm 49:20.

Thus it is written, “Eat and drink in remembrance of Me.”

Ellen G. White wrote: “Never one, saint or sinner, eats His daily food but he is nourished by the body and blood of Christ. The light shining from that Communion service in the upper chamber makes sacred the provisions for our daily life. The family table becomes as the Table of the Lord, and every meal a sacrament.” Desire of Ages, 660.

Why? Because “It is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our strength. It is by His life that we exist, hour by hour, moment by moment. Except as perverted by sin, all His gifts tend to life, to health and joy.” Education, 197,198.

This is a “deep truth” but the Lord desires us to discern it.

Ellen Whtie adds, “How much more are Christ’s words true of our spiritual nature. He declares, ‘Whoso eateth My flesh and drinketh My blood, hath eternal life.’ (John 6:54) It is by receiving the life for us poured out on Calvary’s cross that we can live the life of holiness. And this life we receive by receiving His word, by doing those things which He has commanded. Thus we become one with Him.” John 6:54,56,57. Desire of Ages, 660.

In nature, every seed has in itself a germinating principle. In it the life of the plant is enfolded. So it is in grace. The Word of God is the Seed. There is life in God’s word. Christ says, ‘The words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit and they are life.’

This means that “In every command and in every promise of the word of God is the power, the very life of God, by which the command may be fulfilled and the promise realized. He who by faith receives the word is receiving the very life and character of God. Every seed brings forth fruit after its kind. Sow the seed under right conditions, and it will develop its own life in the plant. Receive into the soul by faith the incorruptible seed of the word, and it will bring forth a character and a life after the similitude of the character of God.” Christ’s Object Lessons, p.38.

“His power, His very life, dwells in His word. As you receive the word in faith, it will give you power to obey.” Mount of Blessing, p.150.

This is what the Lord had in mind when, through Isaiah the prophet, He said,

“So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall accomplish that which I please. It shall not return to Me void. But it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.” Isaiah 55:11.

To receive the word in faith, then, is to receive it as the word of God to us, not written merely, but spoken, as the voice of God speaking to us.

“The word of the living God is not merely written, but spoken. The Bible is God’s voice speaking to us, just as surely as though we could hear it with our ears. If we realized this, with what awe would we open God’s word, and with what earnestness would we search its precepts! The reading and contemplation of the scriptures would be regarded as an audience with the Infinite One.” E.G. White, Testimonies, Vol.6, p.393.

“I know that His commandment is everlasting life.” John 12:50.

This is what it means to eat the flesh of the Son of Man and to drink His blood as far as our spiritual nature is concerned.

Please give me your feedback.

Thank you.

ab

 

[wisdomseeker]

I would like to submit to you that in the bread of the Lord’s supper, we do not receive the body of the Lord any more than we do in an ordinary meal, providing of course that the meal is of that which the Lord Himself gives us to eat. The Lord’s supper contains a lesson on health reform, in that it teaches us how to eat and drink. It sets the pattern for every meal! “This is My body.” “This is My blood.”

Since according to 1 Cor.11:30 failure to discern the Lord’s body is the cause why many are weak and sickly, and why many die, it follows that if the Lord’s body were discerned, the opposite would be the case. If men discerned the Lord’s body in the provisions for their daily life, they would find strength and health!

The Lord Jesus took bread, gave thanks, and said, “This is My body.” This occured when they were eating. The bread was the ordinary unleavened bread that they had on the table, and such it was after Jesus had given thanks; then He took the cup, and said, “This is My blood.” It was ordinary grape juice that they had on the table, and such it was after Jesus had given thanks.

It is utterly useless to spend time arguing, what is true enough, that the catholic priest has not the power to change the bread into the body of Christ; for the scripture tells us that it is that already. “This is My body.” There is no magic whatever about the matter. To be sure, the partaking of the body and the blood of Christ in the Lord’s Supper is absolutely independent of any action of any priest or minister!

Therefore, as we partake of the provisions for our daily life, we are to remember that we live by the life of God and that the Lord’s Supper is a public confession of the fact, for it is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air, and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our strength. The words of Christ in John 6:53 are true of our physical nature.

The knowledge of this truth sanctifies and glorifies eating and drinking. He who lives in constant recognition of it, eats and drinks to the glory of God. He eats and drinks by faith. The man who does not day by day recognize the flesh and blood of Christ in His gifts, eats and drinks damnation to himself. 1 Cor.11:29.

“Man that is in honour and understandeth not, is like the beast that perish.” Psalm 49:20.

Thus it is written, “Eat and drink in remembrance of Me.”

Ellen G. White wrote: “Never one, saint or sinner, eats His daily food but he is nourished by the body and blood of Christ. The light shining from that Communion service in the upper chamber makes sacred the provisions for our daily life. The family table becomes as the Table of the Lord, and every meal a sacrament.” Desire of Ages, 660.

Why? Because “It is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our strength. It is by His life that we exist, hour by hour, moment by moment. Except as perverted by sin, all His gifts tend to life, to health and joy.” Education, 197,198.

This is a “deep truth” but the Lord desires us to discern it.

Please give me your feedback.

Thank you.

ab

We know that you dont. We already know that. We as Catholics do. We eat the Flesh and drink His Blood (our Savior), for without we have no life in us.

Only the Church found by Christ can have this. you would need a valid Priesthood which you dont have. No need for you to get all wounded up about it.

 

[adventbeliever]

I believe in the priesthood of every believer according to Holy Writ:

“Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that ye may grow by it, if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious; to whom, to whom, coming as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of man but chosen of God, and precious, ye also as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, acceptable to God, by Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 2:5,9.

ab

 

[adventbeliever]

Originally Posted by adventbeliever
I would like to submit to you that in the bread of the Lord’s supper, we do not receive the body of the Lord any more than we do in an ordinary meal, providing of course that the meal is of that which the Lord Himself gives us to eat. The Lord’s supper contains a lesson on health reform, in that it teaches us how to eat and drink. It sets the pattern for every meal! “This is My body.” “This is My blood.”

Since according to 1 Cor.11:30 failure to discern the Lord’s body is the cause why many are weak and sickly, and why many die, it follows that if the Lord’s body were discerned, the opposite would be the case. If men discerned the Lord’s body in the provisions for their daily life, they would find strength and health!

The Lord Jesus took bread, gave thanks, and said, “This is My body.” This occured when they were eating. The bread was the ordinary unleavened bread that they had on the table, and such it was after Jesus had given thanks; then He took the cup, and said, “This is My blood.” It was ordinary grape juice that they had on the table, and such it was after Jesus had given thanks.

It is utterly useless to spend time arguing, what is true enough, that the catholic priest has not the power to change the bread into the body of Christ; for the scripture tells us that it is that already. “This is My body.” There is no magic whatever about the matter. To be sure, the partaking of the body and the blood of Christ in the Lord’s Supper is absolutely independent of any action of any priest or minister!

Therefore, as we partake of the provisions for our daily life, we are to remember that we live by the life of God and that the Lord’s Supper is a public confession of the fact, for it is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air, and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our strength. The words of Christ in John 6:53 are true of our physical nature.

The knowledge of this truth sanctifies and glorifies eating and drinking. He who lives in constant recognition of it, eats and drinks to the glory of God. He eats and drinks by faith. The man who does not day by day recognize the flesh and blood of Christ in His gifts, eats and drinks damnation to himself. 1 Cor.11:29.

“Man that is in honour and understandeth not, is like the beast that perish.” Psalm 49:20.

Thus it is written, “Eat and drink in remembrance of Me.”

Ellen G. White wrote: “Never one, saint or sinner, eats His daily food but he is nourished by the body and blood of Christ. The light shining from that Communion service in the upper chamber makes sacred the provisions for our daily life. The family table becomes as the Table of the Lord, and every meal a sacrament.” Desire of Ages, 660.

Why? Because “It is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our strength. It is by His life that we exist, hour by hour, moment by moment. Except as perverted by sin, all His gifts tend to life, to health and joy.” Education, 197,198.

This is a “deep truth” but the Lord desires us to discern it.

Please give me your feedback.

Thank you.

ab

We know that you dont. We already know that. We as Catholics do. We eat the Flesh and drink His Blood (our Savior), for without we have no life in us.

Only the Church found by Christ can have this. you would need a valid Priesthood which you dont have. No need for you to get all wounded up about it.

I believe in the priesthood of every believer according to Holy Writ:

“Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that ye may grow by it, if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious; to whom, to whom, coming as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of man but chosen of God, and precious, ye also as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, acceptable to God, by Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 2:5,9.

ab

 

[adventbeliever]

I just made the sweetest carrot juice and as I drink it I confess that it is the blood of Christ for my physical life. The life that is in the carrot juice is the life of Christ for my physical nature for it is the life of His Word. Without the life of God nature would die.

ab

 

[wisdomseeker]

Originally Posted by adventbeliever
I would like to submit to you that in the bread of the Lord’s supper, we do not receive the body of the Lord any more than we do in an ordinary meal, providing of course that the meal is of that which the Lord Himself gives us to eat. The Lord’s supper contains a lesson on health reform, in that it teaches us how to eat and drink. It sets the pattern for every meal! “This is My body.” “This is My blood.”

Since according to 1 Cor.11:30 failure to discern the Lord’s body is the cause why many are weak and sickly, and why many die, it follows that if the Lord’s body were discerned, the opposite would be the case. If men discerned the Lord’s body in the provisions for their daily life, they would find strength and health!

The Lord Jesus took bread, gave thanks, and said, “This is My body.” This occured when they were eating. The bread was the ordinary unleavened bread that they had on the table, and such it was after Jesus had given thanks; then He took the cup, and said, “This is My blood.” It was ordinary grape juice that they had on the table, and such it was after Jesus had given thanks.

It is utterly useless to spend time arguing, what is true enough, that the catholic priest has not the power to change the bread into the body of Christ; for the scripture tells us that it is that already. “This is My body.” There is no magic whatever about the matter. To be sure, the partaking of the body and the blood of Christ in the Lord’s Supper is absolutely independent of any action of any priest or minister!

Therefore, as we partake of the provisions for our daily life, we are to remember that we live by the life of God and that the Lord’s Supper is a public confession of the fact, for it is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air, and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our strength. The words of Christ in John 6:53 are true of our physical nature.

The knowledge of this truth sanctifies and glorifies eating and drinking. He who lives in constant recognition of it, eats and drinks to the glory of God. He eats and drinks by faith. The man who does not day by day recognize the flesh and blood of Christ in His gifts, eats and drinks damnation to himself. 1 Cor.11:29.

“Man that is in honour and understandeth not, is like the beast that perish.” Psalm 49:20.

Thus it is written, “Eat and drink in remembrance of Me.”

Ellen G. White wrote: “Never one, saint or sinner, eats His daily food but he is nourished by the body and blood of Christ. The light shining from that Communion service in the upper chamber makes sacred the provisions for our daily life. The family table becomes as the Table of the Lord, and every meal a sacrament.” Desire of Ages, 660.

Why? Because “It is His life that we receive in the sunshine, in the pure, sweet air and in the food which builds up our bodies and sustains our strength. It is by His life that we exist, hour by hour, moment by moment. Except as perverted by sin, all His gifts tend to life, to health and joy.” Education, 197,198.

This is a “deep truth” but the Lord desires us to discern it.

Please give me your feedback.

Thank you.

ab

I believe in the priesthood of every believer according to Holy Writ:

“Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that ye may grow by it, if so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious; to whom, to whom, coming as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of man but chosen of God, and precious, ye also as living stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, acceptable to God, by Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 2:5,9.

ab

Hummmm…it is not about believing but it is to believe in the Truth. I know that protestants cannot accept that the CC is the Church found Christ.

You should follow the Scriptures you quoted and stop the hatreth and the saga to prove the CC is wrong. Stop telling lies to Catholics so they can leave the CC. Stop the envy towards the CC. This is the Holy Church of God, teh Pillar and Bullwark of the Truth. I know that you guys read Scriptures but avoid Scriptures that prove your falsehood. you cannot never say that your congregation was found by Christ. you can never say that you were sent by Christ HImself.

Gee, I wonder what happens to you guys if we take the Bible away from you all.