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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
I’ll refer you back to what I said to PRMerger about the unbelieving teachers of the law.
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
Great. I’ll assume that you actually do do His will sometimes and not just try.
By His Spirit (grace) within, we CAN do his will (Romans 6).I’ve found that to really change, I have to spend a lot of time reading the Bible, meditating on His words, and praying. I also listen for his direction, which most often comes by a sense of knowing, but I can also often hear his still, small, and wonderfully loving voice talk to me in words.
He is out of this world (no pun intended), isn’t he!
Love to you in Jesus name!
C
Cal_Fullerton
Guest
I’m not letting you off the hook that easy, PR. I’m waiting for you to answer my question.
:juggle:
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adrift
Guest
What he meant I believe is our soul. Humans are made of Body and Soul.
Try meaning that being a fallible human I often fall short. The Spirit is willing but the flesh is week.
J
jmcrae
Guest
It isn’t my place to judge other people. If someone is actually not a member of the Church, or if they are openly abusing the Sacrament in some way, it is my duty to mention to them that they need to refrain from receiving it until they are in a state of full communion with the Church, but even in that case, I am only looking at actions; I am not judging the heart.
Jesus established only one Church for the whole world to be members of it. He gave it to Peter to be in charge of it, and said to him, Whoever disobeys you is disobeying Me.
He never established any other church or community than that which is in communion with Peter and his successor the Bishop of Rome (the Pope).
This is the Catholic Church; anything else is at best only an imperfect copy. There is no such thing as an “invisible Church” - neither Jesus nor the Apostles ever imagined such a thing.
P
PRmerger
Guest
I would never presume to judge whether any Christian has the Spirit living in him.
How is it that you think I would know this?
Reminds me of a quote:
“And so, lastly, does the very name of Catholic, which, not without reason, amid so many heresies, the Church has thus retained; so that, though all heretics wish to be called Catholics, yet when a stranger asks where the Catholic Church meets, no heretic will venture to point to his own chapel or house.—St. Augustine
Note: I am not calling you a heretic. Not at all. The quote is only applicable in that St. Augustine speaks truly when he states that everyone wants to be called a Catholic.
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PRmerger
Guest
I thought I did.I’m not letting you off the hook that easy, PR. I’m waiting for you to answer my question.
I would answer it in the same way I would answer if someone asked me how the marital embrace improved my relationship with my husband, if it makes us closer and attracts us to each other, and if I would recommend it, and if it improves my life…
Think about the answer that you would give to the above question, and then apply it to your question below, and I think the answer will be similar.
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
Hello, my friends.
I’ll get back to responding to your remarks later. In the meantime, I came across 1 Corinthians during my daily Bible reading the other day and realized that it fits in with a point I was making here. I’ll quote the verses first, then make my point.
First Corinthians 13:1-3 (NAB):
If I speak with human tongues and angelic as well, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong, a clanging symbol. If I have the gift of prophecy and, with full knowledge, comprehend all mysteries, if I have faith great enough to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give everything I have to feed the poor and hand over my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
As you probably know, the love referred to here is the love of God (agape); not romantic, family, or friendship love; but the love found only in God through faith in Christ.
One could add to the verses above, “If I partake of the Eucharist 7 times a day, 7 days a week for 7 straight years, but have not love, it does me no good.”
That’s why I have been asking, “Does the Eucharist help your everyday walk with Christ?” JMCrea answered, in effect, “It does help me, at least in a subtle manner, in my daily walk with Christ.”
The Protestant Eucharist also helps me in a subtle way—perhaps more subtly than with you all—with my walk with Christ, even though I see the bread only as a representation of Christ’s body.
God bless . . . :coffeeread:
I’ll get back to responding to your remarks later. In the meantime, I came across 1 Corinthians during my daily Bible reading the other day and realized that it fits in with a point I was making here. I’ll quote the verses first, then make my point.
First Corinthians 13:1-3 (NAB):
If I speak with human tongues and angelic as well, but do not have love, I am a noisy gong, a clanging symbol. If I have the gift of prophecy and, with full knowledge, comprehend all mysteries, if I have faith great enough to move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give everything I have to feed the poor and hand over my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
As you probably know, the love referred to here is the love of God (agape); not romantic, family, or friendship love; but the love found only in God through faith in Christ.
One could add to the verses above, “If I partake of the Eucharist 7 times a day, 7 days a week for 7 straight years, but have not love, it does me no good.”
That’s why I have been asking, “Does the Eucharist help your everyday walk with Christ?” JMCrea answered, in effect, “It does help me, at least in a subtle manner, in my daily walk with Christ.”
The Protestant Eucharist also helps me in a subtle way—perhaps more subtly than with you all—with my walk with Christ, even though I see the bread only as a representation of Christ’s body.
God bless . . . :coffeeread:
P
PRmerger
Guest
Indeed.
This is very Catholic of you to say, Cal!
Right.
It’s parallel to a boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, where there is no One Flesh Union. They can be very, very close, but cannot, sadly, share the intimacy that can only occur with the marital embrace.
Catholics are able to share in the One Flesh Union with Christ.
And, as such, the relationship that results with Catholics and Christ is that which benefits from being One Flesh with your Beloved.
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adrift
Guest
How does the Eucharist help?
It imparts grace and inward sanctification that are communicated to the soul. The Eucharist is God Himself entering into us to enlighten and strengthen us to do His will through the nourishment of His Body and Blood. That is why it is so important to receive Jesus worthily.
Does everyone receive worthily?
I don’t think there would be such a dire warning about it if everyone did.
It imparts grace and inward sanctification that are communicated to the soul. The Eucharist is God Himself entering into us to enlighten and strengthen us to do His will through the nourishment of His Body and Blood. That is why it is so important to receive Jesus worthily.
Does everyone receive worthily?
I don’t think there would be such a dire warning about it if everyone did.
J
jmcrae
Guest
Awesome, thank you.
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
Except for the last sentence which I’m still up in the air on,
Thanks.I am careful not to reveal to much of myself on the internet. I don’t think it would hurt to tell you I live in the mountains of Colorado.
Hope you have a very nice vacation.
Hey, that’s where we went—to the mountains of Colorado! Rocky Mt. National Park, Aspen, Leadville, Great Sands Dunes National Park, Garden of the Gods (they should not have put an “s” on the end of that), and of course, PIKE’S PEAK! We loved it.
Why are you and so many others careful not too reveal too much of yourselves on the internet? Fear that someone may come after you?
If I was going to come after you, I just missed my chance, didn’t I?
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
I see a big difference between the human spirit (soul, heart) and the Spirit (Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Jesus). Do you? Once the Holy Spirit comes into your heart, you are a new creature, carrying the very nature of God in you. You have become a child of God.
Is that pretty much the way you and the Catholics see it?
I fall short, too. All the time. Someone had a prophetic dream or vision once during which he came into “the immediate presence of God,” as he put it. That is, he went into a measure of God’s holiness that was far beyond anything he had experienced before.
Even though he was a godly minister, he became so aware of how sinful he was that he yelled out, “Lord save me! Lord, save me!” He didn’t even feel saved.
If it weren’t for the doctrine of justification, we’d be in big trouble, eh? (I’m not meaning to suggest, of course, that justification is a license to sin.)
P
PRmerger
Guest
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adrift
Guest
Good description of Baptism and Confirmation.
Good thing we have Penance. I am interested in what you mean by doctrine of justification?
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adrift
Guest
You never know who is watching. Identify theft is a real threat. Oh yeah you were very close probably went right pass my house. We live in beautiful area. Did you like Balancing Rock? At one time, you could climb on the Ship but they had to stop that to protect it. I believe I have a picture of myself on it. Unfortunately, they got rid of the Camera Obscura. I really miss that at 25 cents a look.Except for the last sentence which I’m still up in the air on,
Thanks.
Hey, that’s where we went—to the mountains of Colorado! Rocky Mt. National Park, Aspen, Leadville, Great Sands Dunes National Park, Garden of the Gods (they should not have put an “s” on the end of that), and of course, PIKE’S PEAK! We loved it.
Why are you and so many others careful not too reveal too much of yourselves on the INTERNET? Fear that someone may come after you?
If I was going to come after you, I just missed my chance, didn’t I?
C
Cal_Fullerton
Guest
I’m still confused. Maybe it’s because it has been so long since I last talked to you that I’ve lost track of where we were going. Oh, well.
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Cal_Fullerton
Guest
Since the title of this conversation includes “Catholic teaching,” I guess it’s okay for us to switch to the topic of the church. . . . but do you think we should start a new conversation (thread)?
I agree that there is one church of Jesus Christ. I won’t deny that Peter was in charge, although I’ve never investigated whether he was officially appointed by God to head up the group of the 12 apostles. Do you have scriptural basis that he was charge? I’m open to learn. (If we’re not open to learn more, we’re dying.)
Do you believe Peter was infallible? If so, where’s your biblical support for that?
I know that the book of Galatians indicates that he made some serious mistakes even after receiving the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.
I have no way of knowing who Peter’s successor was, assuming he had one—and I don’t know if he had one. The Bible doesn’t tell us.
I agree that the church is visible. I believe the church (not meaning the Catholic Church) is in disarray today. I believe church history shows that the church went through dark ages during which spirituality reached a low ebb and we are still in the process of restoring the church to its original glory.
I may have asked you this before—I’ve forgotten: What’s your definition of “the church of Jesus Christ”?
Many blessings to you. May His face shine upon you tonight and tomorrow. May you grow closer to him and know His love more tomorrow than today.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Hiya, Cal!
Here’s the thing: you believe Peter was infallible, as well!
How 'bout that?
How do I know this?
Because you quoted him as infallible right here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9008448&postcount=404
Unless you think there are some errors in his encyclicals, 1 Peter and 2 Peter, then you do believe he was infallible, right?
L
Linda_Marie
Guest
Matthew 16:18Since the title of this conversation includes “Catholic teaching,” I guess it’s okay for us to switch to the topic of the church. . . . but do you think we should start a new conversation (thread)?
I agree that there is one church of Jesus Christ. I won’t deny that Peter was in charge, although I’ve never investigated whether he was officially appointed by God to head up the group of the 12 apostles. Do you have scriptural basis that he was charge? I’m open to learn. (If we’re not open to learn more, we’re dying.)
Do you believe Peter was infallible? If so, where’s your biblical support for that?
I know that the book of Galatians indicates that he made some serious mistakes even after receiving the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost.
I have no way of knowing who Peter’s successor was, assuming he had one—and I don’t know if he had one. The Bible doesn’t tell us.
I agree that the church is visible. I believe the church (not meaning the Catholic Church) is in disarray today. I believe church history shows that the church went through dark ages during which spirituality reached a low ebb and we are still in the process of restoring the church to its original glory.
I may have asked you this before—I’ve forgotten: What’s your definition of “the church of Jesus Christ”?
Many blessings to you. May His face shine upon you tonight and tomorrow. May you grow closer to him and know His love more tomorrow than today.
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Before this, Peter’s name was Simon. Jesus gave him a new name, Rock, and stated the He would build His church on him. How many times has God given people a new name? Abram became Abraham; Sarai became Sarah. Each time He has, the person was very significant in God’s plans for mankind.
It is important to note that Jesus did this immediately after His discourse on the Bread of Life. Many left Him after He told them they had to eat His Body and drink His Blood if they wanted eternal life. He reiterated his statement several times during His discourse, using more and more graphic language to emphasize that He was speaking literally, the last being not just ‘eat’ but ‘gnaw/chew’.
Peter, when asked if he too would leave over this said, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.”
The list of successors is not in the bible. This is history and is available from other sources. It does not have to be in the bible. This is a fallacy based on misunderstanding about the purpose of the bible. Firstly, there was no bible until 325AD and the Council of Nicea. There was an assortment of writings, some of which were heretical, being read among various churches. These writings were used in the liturgy, the worship services. The canonisation of the bible came about because heretical writings were being read at Mass. The purpose of canonisation was not to provide a manual with everything written out, but to approve what could be read at Mass. The ‘manual’ is the Catechism.
The Bishop of Rome Is Peter’s Successor
THE PRIMACY OF PETER
The List of Popes
Papal infallibility does not cover everything a pope says or does. It applies only when he is speaking ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals. Popes are not impeccable, free from being able to sin.
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