SPLIT: The Eucharist in Scripture and Catholic teaching.

[IanGE]

The Gospel is more than just believing that Jesus came and died for us and our salvation. It is the result of this. There are implications, as we were bought at a price. You clearly can deny the Gospel, because you deny so many of its implications. You deny that Christ would be with us to the end of the age. You deny that he gave Peter the keys, and that whatever they bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven, and the sins they forgive are forgiven. You deny that God would allow His Church to prevent Hell from prevailing against it.You deny so much, and so many different ‘established’ Christian faiths disagree with you and each other. Yet before this, there was One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church. Heresy arose and was denied. Truth was discovered through the hierarchy that Christ established and the Apostles maintained at His command. Tell me, why, if when men ‘freed’ themselves to interpret the Scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit, they were led to so many different and contradictory conclusions? How is this so if God is absolute Truth? How can there be conflicting truth if God is absolute Truth?

I haven’t missed the bus, Ian. You got off it. How many saints had wonderful experiences in prayer by the grace of the Holy Spirit, yet remained faithful to the Church? How much history and Tradition and writings and Scriptural backing do we have throughout the history of the Church? Yet you are greater than all of it, and your revelation and interpretation is somehow greater than a unified and collective Body of Christ established by the Apostles?Your heart is hardened by your pride, Ian. Your desire for a god that fits into your broken humanity has blinded you. I was guilty of this before, as I believe many are today. There is little else to say. You have ears, but you will not hear. I pray that you open your heart to humility and obedience, and seek spiritual guidance immediately from someone who can help you discern the ‘revelation’ you receive. May God lead you to Truth.

I CANNOT deny the Gospel, which was written by the Holy Spirit for that would blaspheme Him and render me guilty of the unforgiveable sin. Besides He lives IN me and quite capable of giving me a clout around the ear, which He has often. How can I deny that Jesus not would be but IS with us when He and the Father have made their abode in me and so many others who put Jesus first.
I view the implications with suspicion, unless interpreted by someone with whom the SIGNS accompany to CONFIRM that it is God’s Word (see Mark 16:20). I notice nearly all of you quote Catechism, dogma, doctrine, words of long-dead Bishops and Doctors of the CHURCH. I quote the words of my Master, friend and brother, Jesus.
I CANNOT deny that Jesus gave Peter the Keys of the Kingdom; He also specified “UNLESS you are Born Again of water and the Spirit you will not SEE - or ENTER the Kingdom of God.” Baptism is conditional on ACCEPTANCE of Jesus and the signs of the Believer (that is ANYONE and EVERYONE whose heart is accepted by Jesus) WILL accompany him to CONFIRM his heart is in the right place and that he speaks FOR God.
Jesus did not create a heirarchy, he created an “ecclesia” - a whole passel of PEOPLE called out by HIM through the Good News preached by all disciple and confirmed as the true word of God by the signs that accompanied them. The Gospel is written for THOSE people, you, me, pagans, non-Christians, non-Catholics, who are commanded to love, to forgive and be forgiven. Catechism restricts the church’s dogma to Catholics. What rings bells in my heart is Jesus’ promise that “wherever two or more are gathered in MY NAME, there also I AM (the sacred NAME of God)”. I’m not sure about zillions of people who gather to avoid collecting a mortal sin dictat of the heirarchy in Rome.

I’ll have to break off. Just received a phone call: an old Charismatic friend is dying. So we’re off to pray at his bedside. We know where he’s going so it’s more a celebration; but his dear wife needs the comfort and consolation now.

 

[thesmiter1]

I CANNOT deny the Gospel, which was written by the Holy Spirit for that would blaspheme Him and render me guilty of the unforgiveable sin. Besides He lives IN me and quite capable of giving me a clout around the ear, which He has often. How can I deny that Jesus not would be but IS with us when He and the Father have made their abode in me and so many others who put Jesus first.
I view the implications with suspicion, unless interpreted by someone with whom the SIGNS accompany to CONFIRM that it is God’s Word (see Mark 16:20). I notice nearly all of you quote Catechism, dogma, doctrine, words of long-dead Bishops and Doctors of the CHURCH. I quote the words of my Master, friend and brother, Jesus.
I CANNOT deny that Jesus gave Peter the Keys of the Kingdom; He also specified “UNLESS you are Born Again of water and the Spirit you will not SEE - or ENTER the Kingdom of God.” Baptism is conditional on ACCEPTANCE of Jesus and the signs of the Believer (that is ANYONE and EVERYONE whose heart is accepted by Jesus) WILL accompany him to CONFIRM his heart is in the right place and that he speaks FOR God.
Jesus did not create a heirarchy, he created an “ecclesia” - a whole passel of PEOPLE called out by HIM through the Good News preached by all disciple and confirmed as the true word of God by the signs that accompanied them. The Gospel is written for THOSE people, you, me, pagans, non-Christians, non-Catholics, who are commanded to love, to forgive and be forgiven. Catechism restricts the church’s dogma to Catholics. What rings bells in my heart is Jesus’ promise that “wherever two or more are gathered in MY NAME, there also I AM (the sacred NAME of God)”. I’m not sure about zillions of people who gather to avoid collecting a mortal sin dictat of the heirarchy in Rome.

I’ll have to break off. Just received a phone call: an old Charismatic friend is dying. So we’re off to pray at his bedside. We know where he’s going so it’s more a celebration; but his dear wife needs the comfort and consolation now.

Why do you never respond to the whole thing? What about the Holy Spirit guiding so many people in so many different directions? What about the establishing of the Davidic Kingdom and the hierarchy of clergy it contained, and that Christ came to fulfill this and not abolish this (He was of the House of David, after all)?

Please respond to the whole question with logical answers. We have used Scripture AND Tradition, not just one and personal interpretation. We have Scriptural references and the teachings of the earliest Christians. You have Scripture and the belief that God will guide you to be infallible (just like the other 30,000 different ‘infallible’ Christian denominations).

You don’t respond with any coherency or logic, and even when you do respond, you do not address most of the questions asked. You have not answered any of my questions satisfactorily, while we have tried so very hard to present Scripture and Tradition to you several times. There is no purpose in continuing this.

I will pray for you, Ian, that you lay down the pride of your personal interpretation and accept that maybe thousands of years of holy men and women (including those who learned straight from the Apostles) understand the Scriptures and Word of God more than you do. Even Satan uses Scripture with his own personal interpretation (Matthew 4: 1-11).

One last thing before I hope the thread gets back on topic: Your demand for signs has been seen before:

“The Pharisees came and began to argue with him, seeking from him a sign from heaven, to test him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Truly, I say to you, no sign shall be given to this generation.” And he left them, and getting into the boat again he departed to the other side.” Mark 8: 11-13.

Congratulations, Ian. You have the faith of a Pharisee.

 

[thesmiter1]

have to break off. Just received a phone call: an old Charismatic friend is dying. So we’re off to pray at his bedside. We know where he’s going so it’s more a celebration; but his dear wife needs the comfort and consolation now.

I hope your friend enjoys a peaceful death and rests in Christ. I’ll say a Chaplet of Divine Mercy for her.

 

[Cal_Fullerton]

How will you have him in your heart, if you never meet him in person?

Remember, it was two Pharisees - Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea - who buried Jesus at the end - not the poverty stricken, and surely not those who had never met him in person.

There is no more loving act than to bear someone to his final resting place when he has died, unless it is to give birth to him.

Hi jmcrae!

I hope you’re having a blessed day.

I’m puzzled by your comments above.
I thought you knew that you could receive Jesus into your heart by repenting, that is, by turning your life around and following Jesus instead of following yourself or whatever god you used to serve, whether it was money, or your family members, or the pursuit of happiness without God, etc.

Luke 9:22-24 (New International Version 1984):

And he [Jesus] said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”

Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it."

I thought you had said earlier that you had a personal relationship with God—that you had lost your life to gain it, as Jesus put it.

. . . . Oops, , it just occurred to me that you probably meant, “You can’t have him in your heart unless you have met him in the Eucharist.” Is that what you meant?

You know I believe that isn’t true. You’re never going to change my mind.
Let’s talk about what we agree on.

God is an awesome God! Can we agree on that?

 

[PRmerger]

I thought you knew that you could receive Jesus into your heart by repenting, that is, by turning your life around and following Jesus instead of following yourself or whatever god you used to serve, whether it was money, or your family members, or the pursuit of happiness without God, etc.

Luke 9:22-24 (New International Version 1984):

And he [Jesus] said, “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.”

Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it."

Beautiful!

Catholics do proclaim the gospel of repentance, Cal.

We just understand that we have Jesus in our hearts, and we also have that very special, profound, sublime union that’s a One Flesh Union called the Eucharist.

Without it, the type of relationship that one has with Jesus is a platonic one. Similar to a boyfriend and girlfriend, but not like a married couple beloved of each other, able to enjoy the one flesh union.

God is an awesome God! Can we agree on that?

Indeed!

 

[Michael_Francis]

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