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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
Would you say that leaving the Roman Catholic church is the same as leaving Jesus?
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water
Guest
As Catholics think that anyone who believe in Christ is our brother and sister in Christ. However, the Catholic church has full truth.
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
Do you think a Protestant like me is more likely to end up in Purgatory than heaven and then have a chance to make it to heaven from there?
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Mannyfit75
Guest
Only God’s knows what is in our hearts. We, sinners, cannot make judgements on who goes where to heaven, hell, or purgatory…
P
paramedicgirl
Guest
Can’t answer for you, but I sure hope I end up in Purgatory! There’s only one way to go from there, and it’s to heaven.
You see, Catholics have the understanding that nothing unclean can enter heaven, and we will gladly purify our souls in Purgatory so that one day we can stand before God in heaven with a purified soul.
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water
Guest
I wish I could tell, but I have to ask God when I go to Heaven.
When you are in Purgatory, you are assured to go to Heaven. But Purgatory is not what you should aim for. God want us all to meet Him upon our death on us. However, like other poster mentioned that in the Bible, it is to say that nothing defiled can enter Heaven.
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Church_Militant
Guest
Yep.
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
What does the Roman Catholic Church say, CM, is the fate of those who leave the church, yet still try to follow Jesus?
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paramedicgirl
Guest
Here’s what the Catechism says:
818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements. Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity.
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
Thank you. That is helpful. Excuse my ignorance, but is this Catechism what might be called the final court of arbitration between Catholics who have a disagreement on what the Bible says about one point or another?
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paramedicgirl
Guest
I’m sure others can answer that question better than me, but Catholics have three teaching authorities:
- The Bible
- The Magisterium of the Church
- Sacred Tradition
Also, since our own interpretation of the Bible may be faulty, yes, we go to the Catechism of the Catholic Church for clarification.
J
jmcrae
Guest
We don’t judge anyone. But we do warn people that to leave the Catholic Church is to become separated from the Body of Christ (I Corinthians 12).
There are many Churches, but Christ only founded one of them - we know that this one that Jesus founded is the Roman Catholic Church (by which I mean that Catholic Church whose administrative headquarters are in Rome, and including all of its various Rites - Latin, Byzantine, Ukranian, etc.) because of the convergence of history and Scripture, where history shows us that the Apostle Peter was the first Pope of the Roman Catholic Church, and where the Scriptures show how Jesus set up the Apostle Peter as the chief shepherd of His Church in Matthew 16:18 (where He establishes the Church with Peter as its “rock” - thus He names him “Peter” which means “a rock”) and John 21:15-19, where Jesus elevates Peter above his fellow Apostles by making him to be shepherd of the sheep, that is, the leader of the Apostles, and shepherd of the lambs, meaning of His Church at large.
Other evidence that this is the one are that it is the only Church that has continually existed from 30 AD until the present day, it has been an international organization the entire time, it is the only one whose territorial churches (Dioceses and parishes) cover the entire surface of the earth, and also the Moon (thus making it truly Catholic) - “where can I go from your presence” asks the Psalmist in Psalm 139, and there is also no escaping the Catholic Church - where ever there are people who love God - in Heaven, in Purgatory, on earth, and even if they happen to be on the Moon, Christ’s One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church is there for them.
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
Please tell me what is the “Magisterium of the Church” and what is the “Sacred Tradition”?
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
Thank you for the answer, JM.
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Michael_Francis
Guest
Since this was off topic on the other thread I have split it off.
MF
MF
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Genesis315
Guest
That’s not referring to those who leave the Catholic faith-- those who actually can be charged with the sin of separation–but rather those who are born into non-Catholic communities.
As the First Vatican Council declared:
"14. To this witness is added the effective help of power from on high. For, the kind Lord stirs up those who go astray and helps them by his grace so that they may come to the knowledge of the truth [23] ; and also confirms by his grace those whom he has translated into his admirable light [24], so that they may persevere in this light, not abandoning them unless he is first abandoned.
- Consequently, the situation of those, who by the heavenly gift of faith have embraced the Catholic truth, is by no means the same as that of those who, led by human opinions, follow a false religion; for those who have accepted the faith under the guidance of the Church can never have any just cause for changing this faith or for calling it into question.
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Church_Militant
Guest
819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements. Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity.Thanks PMG for covering for me on that.
I left the church for about 34 years. I was never so happy as I am now.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
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Tomster
Guest
S4J,
The Church is more than a religious society whose purpose is the worship of God, more than a society different from all others because it was founded by God, more than a depository of grace and revealed truth. The Church herself is supernatural in her nature and essence, since she is the Body of Christ, living with the life of Christ himself, with a supernatural life. From the “fullness of Christ” (Colossians 2:9 ff) all his members are filled, so that the Church herself is “the fullness of him who is wholly fullfilled in all.” (Ephesians 1:23) Hence the mystery of the Church is the very mystery of Christ himself.
Our act of faith in the great mystery of Christ’s Church means far more than a belief in a wonderful world-wide organization of millions of people, united as no other group of people has ever been in belief, in practice, and in central government; it means that there circulates throughout the Church the life of grace which Christ came to bring into the world, linking together the members of the Church under Christ their Head with such a closeness of union that Head and members form a unique reality: the Mystical Body of Christ. Our act of faith in the Church is an act of faith in Christ ever active in our midst, ever speaking, ever teaching, ever guiding, ever sanctifying those who are one with Him, through the organism he has willed should exist in the world.
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st_lucy
Guest
I was told by a priest that when one leaves the RCC, they are not fully aware of what they are leaving. For some reason they were not catechised right and are not aware that they have just left the one true church.
This explanation helped me alot since I have two brothers who have left the RCC. I pray for them every day.
L
Linkowski
Guest
What do you say for me?I wish I could tell, but I have to ask God when I go to Heaven.
When you are in Purgatory, you are assured to go to Heaven. But Purgatory is not what you should aim for. God want us all to meet Him upon our death on us. However, like other poster mentioned that in the Bible, it is to say that nothing defiled can enter Heaven.
I have been justified by faith after being foreknown, predestined, and then called…I will one day, as scripture promises, be glorified…
Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
What about one like me who was written in the Lamb’s book of Life and have been given promises like…
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
And assurances like…
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth.
One who has been washed…
1Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
and am clean every whit…
John 13:8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me.
9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head.
10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all.
One of the elect…
1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Mt 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
One of those who have been perfected, forever…
Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
One who is dead to the law…bondage to it and its penalty…
Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
One who has been sealed with the Holy Spirit at the hearing of faith…
Ac 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
One who has been changed…
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
One who believes…
1Jo 5:13 **These things **have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
And manifests in my life - “these things” from the scripture reference above…
Love, practicing of righteousness, hating of sin, observing of commandments, loving of the brethren, witness of the Holy Spirit - all showing that I have been born of God - and am one of the elect.
All by the grace of God…
For one written in the Lamb’s Book of Life…what to you say for me.
I am particularly curious about the phrase about what we are “aiming for” in the quoted response. I aimed for the cross of Christ…and this was the sacrifice that has perfected me and taken away my penalty of death…
Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
CL
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