SPLIT: Using music tracks for Mass

[hosea]

Palm Sunday 2010

Hosana to the Son of David
response: Probably Cooney’s 'Why have You abandoned me?
prep: John Michael Talbot’s ‘Why’
communion: O sacred Head surrounded and Were you there?
closing: Jesus, remember me.

wonderful news! A parishoner from Spokane, Wa. noticed in one of my blogs that I do backing tracks and wrote “I have gotten permission from my Pastor to use backing tracks at our little church in Usk, Wa.” So I sent them everything I have (over 200 songs.) I also got a request from a poor parish in South Africa. Pretty amazing to be able to spread His music all over the world. What a ministry I am blessed with!

peace,
h

 

[agapewolf]

Palm Sunday 2010

Hosana to the Son of David
response: Probably Cooney’s 'Why have You abandoned me?
prep: John Michael Talbot’s ‘Why’
communion: O sacred Head surrounded and Were you there?
closing: Jesus, remember me.

wonderful news! A parishoner from Spokane, Wa. noticed in one of my blogs that I do backing tracks and wrote “I have gotten permission from my Pastor to use backing tracks at our little church in Usk, Wa.” So I sent them everything I have (over 200 songs.) I also got a request from a poor parish in South Africa. Pretty amazing to be able to spread His music all over the world. What a ministry I am blessed with!

peace,
h

If I am understanding you correctly, you are recording yourself playing piano or organ on church songs?

Sorry, but you cannot distribute those. Technically, you can’t even record them without a mechanical license (not that big of a deal if its just your personal use). But you cannot play those in public or distribute (even for free) without permission and license. Last I hear, 10 years ago and it may be more now, its 8 1/2 cents per copy per song, and that is just copies. The mechanical license to make it comes first and thats more.

The royalties are why I haven’t recorded a cover album yet.

 

[benedictgal]

If I am understanding you correctly, you are recording yourself playing piano or organ on church songs?

Sorry, but you cannot distribute those. Technically, you can’t even record them without a mechanical license (not that big of a deal if its just your personal use). But you cannot play those in public or distribute (even for free) without permission and license. Last I hear, 10 years ago and it may be more now, its 8 1/2 cents per copy per song, and that is just copies. The mechanical license to make it comes first and thats more.

The royalties are why I haven’t recorded a cover album yet.

Not only is there an issue with royalties, but, there is that prohibition against recorded music in church. Recorded music cannot be used for the liturgy. This is not restricted to the old fashioned tape player, but, CDs and other electronic forms are covered. This was discussed in another thread.

 

[hosea]

people download millions of songs to their ipods and pc’s every day; sharing them all over the world.
A fellow parish that is poor and has no resources for music reaches out to me from thousands of miles away and I have to tell them ‘sorry, you’re just going to have to tough it out.’ Meanwhile all of us who DO have a wealth of musical resources go to Mass and enjoy being lifted up every week by beautiful music played by pro’s on high-dollar equipment.
I’m sorry, but I just can’t tell them ‘no.’ And as far as that 60 year old ‘rule’ goes: it was discussed to death so i won’t go there. The USCCB is more than capable of interpreting the ancient doctrines.
peace,
h

 

[benedictgal]

people download millions of songs to their ipods and pc’s every day; sharing them all over the world.
A fellow parish that is poor and has no resources for music reaches out to me from thousands of miles away and I have to tell them ‘sorry, you’re just going to have to tough it out.’ Meanwhile all of us who DO have a wealth of musical resources go to Mass and enjoy being lifted up every week by beautiful music played by pro’s on high-dollar equipment.
I’m sorry, but I just can’t tell them ‘no.’ And as far as that 60 year old ‘rule’ goes: it was discussed to death so i won’t go there. The USCCB is more than capable of interpreting the ancient doctrines.
peace,
h

Hosea, but, since you brought it up, it is still in force. Even the best of reasons cannot justify the fact that what is happening is wrong. Please do not belitle “ancient doctrines”. The rules are there for a reason.

 

[agapewolf]

people download millions of songs to their ipods and pc’s every day; sharing them all over the world.
A fellow parish that is poor and has no resources for music reaches out to me from thousands of miles away and I have to tell them ‘sorry, you’re just going to have to tough it out.’ Meanwhile all of us who DO have a wealth of musical resources go to Mass and enjoy being lifted up every week by beautiful music played by pro’s on high-dollar equipment.
I’m sorry, but I just can’t tell them ‘no.’ And as far as that 60 year old ‘rule’ goes: it was discussed to death so i won’t go there. The USCCB is more than capable of interpreting the ancient doctrines.
peace,
h

Hosea, what you are doing is illegal AND immoral. It is plain wrong. You have STOLEN. It is the same as walking into a cd store, taking a cd and walking out without paying. It is someone else’s property, intellectual property, and you have taken it and made it your own. (no, not claimed to have written it, but recorded it).

People download stuff, when you do it legally, you pay for it. That is the moral way to do it. You can’t rationalize a wrong by saying people do it all the time. Just because you can doesn’t make it right.

The first problem here is that you recorded it, and play it in public. You do not “have” the musical resources. You took them without permission or paying for them. That is wrong. THEN you give it out to other people. That is wrong. What about the poor songwriter trying to feed his family who would get the royalty? You are stealing from them. As a songwriter and recording artist myself I am highly offended that you rationalize this as a good thing.

People rationalize violating copyright laws all the time, but it doesn’t make it right.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

aaa

 

[Melchior_1]

hosea,

My wife composes and has some of her music on some sites where if people download them, she gets some of the proceeds. As somebody currently unemployed, I must say I’d be pretty upset if you downloaded a copy of her music illegally. I’d also be pretty upset if you passed it along to someone else and they didn’t pay fr it or facilitated such actions.

My wife and I live a very modest life style…but we still need to eat. Others might be in the same boat.

 

[Elizium23]

Hosea, what you are doing is illegal AND immoral. It is plain wrong. You have STOLEN. It is the same as walking into a cd store, taking a cd and walking out without paying. It is someone else’s property, intellectual property, and you have taken it and made it your own. (no, not claimed to have written it, but recorded it).

It is not quite the same type of crime, because theft involves depriving someone else of their property. Since audio recordings are intangible and can be copied without degradation, you haven’t deprived the owner of the original copy, but you’ve deprived the author, performers and distributor of payment for their services.

People download stuff, when you do it legally, you pay for it. That is the moral way to do it. You can’t rationalize a wrong by saying people do it all the time. Just because you can doesn’t make it right.

There is plenty of music that is licensed so that it can be freely copied and distributed. Large distributors and publishing houses do not want you to know this, but many independent publishers offer free and legal music.

 

[agapewolf]

It is not quite the same type of crime, because theft involves depriving someone else of their property. Since audio recordings are intangible and can be copied without degradation, you haven’t deprived the owner of the original copy, but you’ve deprived the author, performers and distributor of payment for their services.

There is plenty of music that is licensed so that it can be freely copied and distributed. Large distributors and publishing houses do not want you to know this, but many independent publishers offer free and legal music.

but we are talking about church music, and while some of it may be public domain, a lot of it is owned and must be payed for.

 

[hosea]

but we are talking about church music, and while some of it may be public domain, a lot of it is owned and must be payed for.

I purchased the keyboard accompaniment books for Journeysongs from OCP along with the Choral books for my choir. Paid for by me. Not my church.
I use the music from thoses purchased books to create the music using Cakewalk’s Sonar software purchased by me at a cost of over 600 dollars paid to Cakewalk on a computer that I purchased from Costco.
I give it to a parish which has also purchased hymnals for their church.
No one offers accompaniment music to poor parishes that can not afford anything more than a boom box.
One of the people that contacted me looked all over the internet for backing tracks. There are none.
I do not download music and sell it or give it away. I create it from purchased copyrighted music in my home during hours and hours of work on my pc.
Why don’t we just all meet every Sunday at these parishes and sing for them. Well that’s just not possible is it? So I do what I believe is the next best thing. I give them backing tracks (sans vocals) and pray that the music therein will help their faithful parishoners feel lifted up just a little bit more.
good by,
h

 

[benedictgal]

I purchased the keyboard accompaniment books for Journeysongs from OCP along with the Choral books for my choir. Paid for by me. Not my church.
I use the music from thoses purchased books to create the music using Cakewalk’s Sonar software purchased by me at a cost of over 600 dollars paid to Cakewalk on a computer that I purchased from Costco.
I give it to a parish which has also purchased hymnals for their church.
No one offers accompaniment music to poor parishes that can not afford anything more than a boom box.
One of the people that contacted me looked all over the internet for backing tracks. There are none.
I do not download music and sell it or give it away. I create it from purchased copyrighted music in my home during hours and hours of work on my pc.
Why don’t we just all meet every Sunday at these parishes and sing for them. Well that’s just not possible is it? So I do what I believe is the next best thing. I give them backing tracks (sans vocals) and pray that the music therein will help their faithful parishoners feel lifted up just a little bit more.
good by,
h

However, it is not for you to give away. The back tracking is already ilicit enough because it is not allowed. Why compound doing something that is already not allowed by possibly violating copyright laws? No matter how noble the intention, it does not justify doing things that are ilicit.

 

[agapewolf]

I purchased the keyboard accompaniment books for Journeysongs from OCP along with the Choral books for my choir. Paid for by me. Not my church.
I use the music from thoses purchased books to create the music using Cakewalk’s Sonar software purchased by me at a cost of over 600 dollars paid to Cakewalk on a computer that I purchased from Costco.
I give it to a parish which has also purchased hymnals for their church.
No one offers accompaniment music to poor parishes that can not afford anything more than a boom box.
One of the people that contacted me looked all over the internet for backing tracks. There are none.
I do not download music and sell it or give it away. I create it from purchased copyrighted music in my home during hours and hours of work on my pc.
Why don’t we just all meet every Sunday at these parishes and sing for them. Well that’s just not possible is it? So I do what I believe is the next best thing. I give them backing tracks (sans vocals) and pray that the music therein will help their faithful parishoners feel lifted up just a little bit more.
good by,
h

You keep rationalizing this, and it doesn’t work.
You’ve paid for the piece of paper with the music on it. That gives you freedom to read the music and play it publicly, live. ( You could do so without the paper music too, if you can play by ear).

That does NOT give you the right to record it and distribute it. Why do you think “ASCAP” is on every rock CD that covers a song? Why do you think there are so many lawsuits from vanilla ice to queen over stolen music? (although this is claiming it as their own)…but it is law that you cannot record someone else’s songs without the permission and paying for it. It is not yours to give away. Doesn’t matter how poor someone is, you’ve stolen from the poor songwriter who wrote it. You didn’t answer that question last time, what about them? What about that songwriter’s due?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_license

Stop rationalizing. It is illegal, it is immoral, it is stealing.

 

[kage_ar]

Without license, you cannot record these tracks let alone distribute them. Stick with songs that are in the public domain or pay the royalties.

You have been very open about the Parish you work with. Putting such an admission of copyright violation out there in public is kinda silly.

 

[agapewolf]

With license, you cannot record these tracks let alone distribute them. Stick with songs that are in the public domain or pay the royalties.

You have been very open about the Parish you work with. Putting such an admission of copyright violation out there in public is kinda silly.

I’m assuming you meant “without a license”…

 

[Erin_Anne]

Palm Sunday 2010

Hosana to the Son of David
response: Probably Cooney’s 'Why have You abandoned me?
prep: John Michael Talbot’s ‘Why’
communion: O sacred Head surrounded and Were you there?
closing: Jesus, remember me.

wonderful news! A parishoner from Spokane, Wa. noticed in one of my blogs that I do backing tracks and wrote “I have gotten permission from my Pastor to use backing tracks at our little church in Usk, Wa.” So I sent them everything I have (over 200 songs.) I also got a request from a poor parish in South Africa. Pretty amazing to be able to spread His music all over the world. What a ministry I am blessed with!

peace,
h

While I very much understand your passion to help Parishes that are less fortunate, the law is the law. Both non-secular and secular laws apply in this case.

It doesn’t mean you don’t have a calling to help, it just means you can’t do it in this way. The Pastor in WA doesn’t have the authority grant permission to use recorded music at his Church as it is…

E.-A.

 

[kage_ar]

I’m assuming you meant “without a license”…

 

[agapewolf]

Here’s OCP’s policy on mechanical license

Mechanical License

This license allows you to include OCP music on a recording. Effective January 1, 2006, the statutory rate set by Congress is 9.1 cents per song, per copy, for songs under 5 minutes in playing time, and 1.75 cents per minute, per song, per copy, for songs over 5 minutes. There is a $25 minimum fee

So, $25 x 200 songs = $5000

9.1 cents x 200 songs x 3 copies: $54.60

When a song is recorded, it also must have all the original copyright holder’s info on it too, so that the recording is not mistaken for the original. Damages can be sued for in this case too.

This is a big deal, Hosea. Please stop and get rid of those tracks. You can get in big trouble here.

 

[jmcrae]

I purchased the keyboard accompaniment books for Journeysongs from OCP along with the Choral books for my choir. Paid for by me. Not my church.

What you paid for was the right to use them yourself in a live presentation of them at your own church. You didn’t pay for the right to record yourself playing them, nor to distribute recordings of yourself playing them.

I use the music from thoses purchased books to create the music using Cakewalk’s Sonar software purchased by me at a cost of over 600 dollars paid to Cakewalk on a computer that I purchased from Costco.

Cakewalk assumes that you are writing original music of your own and using their software to record yourself playing your own original compositions.

I give it to a parish which has also purchased hymnals for their church.
No one offers accompaniment music to poor parishes that can not afford anything more than a boom box.

The human voice is the ideal “instrument” for Church music. If there are human beings present at Mass, they don’t need a “boom box” or an organ, or “back tracks” or anything else.

One of the people that contacted me looked all over the internet for backing tracks. There are none.

You’ve just found out why.

 

[cctabb]

Hosea, if I might suggest you use your passion for ministering musically to disadvantaged parishes to raise funds to purchase the proper licenses or purchase legally recorded music for the disadvantage parishes.