SPLIT: What did Christ teach that wasn't written,and if it wasn't written how can you be sure He taught it?

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Go to a service in any Protestant church, and the odds are good you will hear the minister ask the congregation to pray for someone who is sick or in difficulty.

In other words, the minister prays to the congregation (that’s what “pray” means, to ask.)

And what does he pray for? That they intecede with God on behalf of someone.👍
Correction. The minister or pastor ordinarily starts out by saying ‘Let us pray for…’, and then the prayer is sent to God by the community.

I have two questions which arise from postings here:

(1) We speak of God or gods here. How do we define a god? If we assume a ‘god’ is divine, then what is ‘divine’? What do we mean.

(2) Why are we so obsessively concerned about salvation from eternal damnation, far more than we are about the way in which we manifest Jesus’ humanity while we are on earth. Einstein, I think it was, said that as he could not know what the afterlife held for him, he would not waste time conjuring it up. He would get on with life for now. Are we not too preoccupied by salvation vs eternal damnation (which are defined in various ways other than ‘heaven and hell’)?

In Christ
 
Correction. The minister or pastor ordinarily starts out by saying ‘Let us pray for…’, and then the prayer is sent to God by the community.

I have two questions which arise from postings here:

(1) We speak of God or gods here. How do we define a god? If we assume a ‘god’ is divine, then what is ‘divine’? What do we mean.

(2) Why are we so obsessively concerned about salvation from eternal damnation, far more than we are about the way in which we manifest Jesus’ humanity while we are on earth. Einstein, I think it was, said that as he could not know what the afterlife held for him, he would not waste time conjuring it up. He would get on with life for now. Are we not too preoccupied by salvation vs eternal damnation (which are defined in various ways other than ‘heaven and hell’)?

In Christ
Einstein also didn’t believe in God in the sense of a personal savior like Christians, but more in the sense of a Ultimate Knowledge, or a cosmological power.
 
Correction. The minister or pastor ordinarily starts out by saying ‘Let us pray for…’, and then the prayer is sent to God by the community.
Wrong. He prays to the congregation, and asks them to intercede. I’ve seen and heard it myself, many times.
 
Wrong. He prays to the congregation, and asks them to intercede. I’ve seen and heard it myself, many times.
Can we please nurture tolerance and receptivity for one another? Both you and Lisdogan are right, though you have had different experiences, that does not make the other’s experience “wrong”.

In answer also to Lisdogan’s question around the pre-occupation with salvation, I think maybe it goes back to the foundation of the Christian life, and our motivation for living it. If Catholics are wrong about salvation - how it happens and when, then we are probably wrong about how the saved life is to be lived as well.
 
n2thelight
I understand what you are saying,but my problem is,why is it not scriptual,I mean something as important as purgatory must be in scripture, yet its not.
Guanophore gave you many important things that are not clearly stated in scripture
(see post #149), but you have ignored it. Just as you have ignored my post regarding infant baptism which is very important and answered your challenge to this thread which btw you have derailed and have evaded because obviously you don’t have an answer, yet we answered your OP clearly.

I will add this again: you claimed that infant baptism was wrong because you say that “one must believe” in order to be baptized and you specifically stated that “infants cannot believe” (your post #74) then your post #75 you quote John 3:16 so I asked in my post #87 how can infants be saved if they cant believe according to what you stated.

You didn’t answer my post #72 which gave you an example of what you were looking for.
Again – ths following has been asked several times that answers you OP question.
Also, please answer this:
Who wrote the Gospel of Matthew and how do you know it is inspired?
 
Mary was not ever virgin

Mark 6:3 Is not this [referring to Jesus] the carpenter, the son of Mary, the BROTHER of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not HIS SISTERS here with us? And they were offended at him.

The word “cousin” is clearly found in the scripture,so please don’t say this means that

Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. Luke 1:58 And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.

Matthew 1:24-25, Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not (this means he did not have relations with her) TILL SHE HAD BROUGHT FORTH HER FIRSTBORN SON: and he called his name JESUS.

Now let’s look at the word know from the concordance
  1. to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
a) to become known
  1. to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
a) to understand

b) to know
  1. Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman
  2. to become acquainted with, to know
But why do I know you will say it’s any of them but 3

John’s gospel records a fulfilled prophesy from the book of Psalms–in it, Jesus tells us He has brothers and sisters.

John 2:17, And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

Psalms 69:8-9 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto MY MOTHER’S CHILDREN. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.

It’s so ovious Mary had sex,a child could read these verses and know the truth
 
in2thelight,

Where is Mary described as the Mother of anyone other than Jesus? If Joses was her son, wouldn’t she be described as “Mary, mother of Jesus and Joses”? Instead, we see in John’s Gospel, “the mother of Jesus was there”.

Also, did Michal have any kid after her death? I believe Scripture says she was childless til the day of her death.
 
RCC Catechism

Only the Magisterium of the Church Can Interpret the Bible
“The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the magisterium of the Church, that is, the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.” #100, p.35

The Holy Ghost Interprets the Bible for Christians

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 John 2:26-27

“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, HE SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
–John 14:26

“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH…”
–John 16:13

“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.”
–2 Peter 1:20
 
RCC Catechism

Only the Magisterium of the Church Can Interpret the Bible
“The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the magisterium of the Church, that is, the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him.” #100, p.35

The Holy Ghost Interprets the Bible for Christians

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 John 2:26-27

“But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, HE SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
–John 14:26

“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, HE WILL GUIDE YOU INTO ALL TRUTH…”
–John 16:13

“Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.”
–2 Peter 1:20
It’s interesting that you use John 14 and 16, for they prove the Catholic position. Jesus is teaching the Apostles, the leaders of the New Church, telling them that the Holy Spirit will guide them into all truth.

Now, if Jesus said this during the Sermon on the Mount, you may have a great point.

And your quote on 2nd Peter proves again that one can’t be sure that they alone have a correct interpretation. The Church is the one that is assured of true interpretation. Private interpretation MAY BE CORRECT, but Church interpretation IS CORRECT.

And your quote 1 John, first of all, why don’t you use plain English? 2nd of all, it teaches that the Holy Spirit will insure that you will know the truth. How is that? Why that’s easy, the Holy Spirit will make sure that the Church teaches the truth. If you follow the Church’s teachings, you will know the truth.
 
Not Worthy
It’s interesting that you use John 14 and 16, for they prove the Catholic position. Jesus is teaching the Apostles, the leaders of the New Church, telling them that the Holy Spirit will guide them into all truth.
Now, if Jesus said this during the Sermon on the Mount, you may have a great point.
And your quote on 2nd Peter proves again that one can’t be sure that they alone have a correct interpretation. The Church is the one that is assured of true interpretation. Private interpretation MAY BE CORRECT, but Church interpretation IS CORRECT.
And your quote 1 John, first of all, why don’t you use plain English? 2nd of all, it teaches that the Holy Spirit will insure that you will know the truth. How is that? Why that’s easy, the Holy Spirit will make sure that the Church teaches the truth. If you follow the Church’s teachings, you will know the truth.
Are you saying that the Holy Spirit does not dwell in anyone who dos’nt follow the teachings of the Catholic Church?
 
If Mary was sinless,why could she not have paid the price for our sins?Would she not have been a perfect sacrafice?
 
The Catholic Church has done some evil things during its history,what happened during this time,did the Holy Spirit leave?
 
Mary was not ever virgin



Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren. Luke 1:58 And her neighbours and her cousins heard how the Lord had shewed great mercy upon her; and they rejoiced with her.

Matthew 1:24-25, Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife: And knew her not (this means he did not have relations with her) TILL SHE HAD BROUGHT FORTH HER FIRSTBORN SON: and he called his name JESUS.

Now let’s look at the word know from the concordance
  1. to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel
a) to become known
  1. to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of
a) to understand

b) to know
  1. Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman
  2. to become acquainted with, to know
But why do I know you will say it’s any of them but 3

John’s gospel records a fulfilled prophesy from the book of Psalms–in it, Jesus tells us He has brothers and sisters.

John 2:17, And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

Psalms 69:8-9 I am become a stranger unto my brethren, and an alien unto MY MOTHER’S CHILDREN. For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up; and the reproaches of them that reproached thee are fallen upon me.

It’s so ovious Mary had sex,a child could read these verses and know the truth
Wow, the last two have absolutely nothing to do with Mary:

For your sake I bear insult, shame covers my face. I have become an outcast to my kin, a stranger to my mother’s children. Because zeal for your house consumes me, I am scorned by those who scorn you

Psalm 69:8-10

That last sentence there? Yeah, that is the prophesy, Psalm 69:10. The rest just so happens to be right next to it. I no way should the comment about “mother” be related to the Mother of God.

Let’s evaluate that further: Mark 6:3 seems to indicate a pretty tight-knit relationship with His mother’s “children”. That pretty much ignores Psalm 69:9 if it is in fact part of the prophecy.

And you might want to keep that “concordance” away from this discussion. That way of interpretation is a tradition that is thoroughly un-Catholic, and won’t sway many here. I don’t know what you’re thinking, but we’re not a bunch of ignoramuses over here: we’re well aware of the innuendo associated with knowing somebody.
 
Are you saying that the Holy Spirit does not dwell in anyone who dos’nt follow the teachings of the Catholic Church?
Wow, that’s right! In fact, the gifts of the Holy Spirit only dwell within those who have had the hands of the Apostles, or those who have been appointed by them (the bishops in communion with the Church, all of whom can trace their lineage to the Apostles and Christ Jesus).

Now when the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent them Peter and John, who went down and prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for it had not yet fallen upon any of them; they had *only *been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus

Acts 8:14-16, emphasis added

And when Paul laid (his) hands on them, the holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied

Acts 19:6

That quotation from Acts 8:14-16 is particularly important, because we see that the Holy Spirit only enters the faithful who have had hands laid upon them. Who has the authority to do such things? The Apostles were the first bishops, and they chose successors to protect the deposit of faith; make no mistake then, that this is the very same sacrament of confirmation.

Therefore, let us leave behind the basic teaching about Christ and advance to maturity, without laying the foundation all over again: repentance from dead works and faith in God, instruction about baptisms and laying on of hands, resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.

Hebrews 6:1-2

The proposal was acceptable to the whole community, so they chose Stephen, a man filled with faith and the holy Spirit, also Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas, and Nicholas of Antioch, a convert to Judaism. They presented these men to the apostles who prayed and laid hands on them

Acts 6:5-6

Now there were in the church at Antioch prophets and teachers: Barnabas, Symeon who was called Niger, Lucius of Cyrene, Manaen who was a close friend of Herod the tetrarch, and Saul. While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the holy Spirit said, “Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, completing their fasting and prayer, they laid hands on them and sent them off.

Acts 13:1-3

Do not neglect the gift you have, which was conferred on you through the prophetic word with the imposition of hands of the presbyterate [a *bishop in our language].

1 Timothy 4:14

I charge you before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels to keep these rules without prejudice, doing nothing out of favoritism. Do not lay hands too readily on anyone, and do not share in another’s sins. Keep yourself pure.

1 Timothy 5:21-22

Uh oh, it looks like we have something here with these two pieces of Scripture! “What is it”, you ask? First, proof that all these things are necessary for the Christian, as actual matters of the faith (as per the quotation from Hebrews). But also, just as importantly, proof from the Scriptures that the Holy Spirit is only conferred upon those whom the Apostles laid hands upon, with the intention that this practice was to continue for all Christians!

All these pieces of Scripture seem to indicate that only by the laying of hands by those who were chosen will a Christian be filled with the Holy Spirit.

To know who or how people are chosen, look at the quote from 1 Timothy 5:21-22. He was no Apostle, yet he was chosen by St. Paul to continue on what the Apostles had been charged by Christ to do. And when the time was right, Timothy chose someone else to continue on the legacy.

So, to answer your question, you can’t be filled with the Holy Spirit unless you have hands laid upon you by a bishop. And as Catholics, we lay claim to such succession that Protestants could never even hope for.

I sincerely pray that you actually read this, because thusfar you swiftly ignore much of the treasure that people have written.
 
The Catholic Church has done some evil things during its history,what happened during this time,did the Holy Spirit leave?
Nope, because it is promised that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church in to all Truth (cf. St. John 16:13)

So while there have been bad people in the Catholic Church, the teachings of the infallible Church have never been in error. They are inspired by the Holy Spirit when the Church invokes her full authoritative power.

The Catholic Church, then, has never done anything wrong. Catholics in it… well, that’s an entirely different story. None of us would deny the wrongs committed by our predecessors, but we believe that God keeps His promises to protect the Church, even though people in it might be all too human.

And the Spirit has never failed us, nor will it ever. Glory be to God in the Highest!
 
If Mary was sinless,why could she not have paid the price for our sins?Would she not have been a perfect sacrafice?
Never!

Mary, too, was saved by God in her immaculate conception. The dogma of the immaculate conception contends that Mary was saved from original sin in anticipation of Christ’s death at the Cross, and that through special graces granted to her in life, she remained sinless by the blood of Christ for the rest of her life until her assumption.

And see, it wasn’t only Christ’s perfection that made His death important; it was also the fact that He was the “Word made flesh”, one in being with the Father. It seems reasonable to say that His Sacrifice for our sake and our salvation was worthy by the fact that He was perfect and sinless as fully human and that He was fully divine as well.

The Virgin Mary was not part of the Hypostatic union, and thus she would not have been a suitable sacrifice. Just like the rest of us, she was saved by the blood of Christ, though hers was in anticipation of His glorious death and resurrection.
 
JLongoria

First I would like to thank you for answering my questions.

Now my next question,You all stated that it was the Catholics who put the Bible together,as far as what books were allowed in and those not.

If this is the case,why have a Catholic Bible,why not just put it together right the first time,in thus doing,make the Catholic Bible unnecessary?Or do you not accept the KJV?
 
JLongoria

First I would like to thank you for answering my questions.

Now my next question,You all stated that it was the Catholics who put the Bible together,as far as what books were allowed in and those not.

If this is the case,why have a Catholic Bible,why not just put it together right the first time,in thus doing,make the Catholic Bible unnecessary?Or do you not accept the KJV?
We did do it right the first time. The Bible has always been Catholic. It was the Reformers who removed books from the Bible and the first KJV didn’t come out till 1611. Do you think that all of Christendom had no Bible before that date? I invite you to peruse this thread:
The Bible is Catholic
 
N2thelight,
Please, answer this question:

Who wrote the Gospel of Matthew, and how do you know it its inspired?

Thank you.
 
The Catholic Church has done some evil things during its history,what happened during this time,did the Holy Spirit leave?
A sign of desparation.

N2thelight, have you ever sinned since becoming a Christian?
 
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