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Kouyate42
Guest
I’ve heard this theory and it seems one of the most plausible.
SPLIT: What is your opinion of the Quran and other religious books?
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LtTony
Guest
Do you mean the given name Mohammad, or the title of Allah’s prophet or messenger, or both?
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mark_avery
Guest
I think a really easy approach to religion is call that that is nun other than the word of our Lord “Faith” and the word religion, and for all that is built upon human artifices as just human law,which is not so relevant.
FAITH is given,so no one really knows how much they at the time have or if any at all,unlike belief and hope Quote,Our lord"when i return will i find any faith at all"
So at least to stay away from the word religion and pray for faith is there then hope you will be heard.
Everyone has a God head,so all will be judged according to the least of there crimes against the father, with or without light.Aarrggggg!
FAITH is given,so no one really knows how much they at the time have or if any at all,unlike belief and hope Quote,Our lord"when i return will i find any faith at all"
So at least to stay away from the word religion and pray for faith is there then hope you will be heard.
Everyone has a God head,so all will be judged according to the least of there crimes against the father, with or without light.Aarrggggg!
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mark_avery
Guest
Well not to make an odd statement but it was the councillor that he left for his eternal atonement,so lets not backslide.
God speed!
God speed!
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mark_avery
Guest
3in1 yes! indeed, but how he gets there through or from the holy spiritus,could it not be a long old journey also, plus the infallibility of our church fathers could be from an osmoses of the biblical truth`s and from the evangelical mission of jesus and there by leaving room for us to breath and move,freedom of will and somewhat choice.
There can not be dispute there,surly!
There can not be dispute there,surly!
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mark_avery
Guest
The word religion is merely an evangelical word used to incorporate those less well of,maybe!
I like faith other than religion for as we stand upon the rock we have a much better view than those that toss scripture in the face of facts,which way the wind blows no one knows!!
I like faith other than religion for as we stand upon the rock we have a much better view than those that toss scripture in the face of facts,which way the wind blows no one knows!!
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mark_avery
Guest
To teach! which is to follow in his footsteps and also to be guided by our love the holy spirit
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schaick
Guest
The Quran was written by a man suffering Temporal Lobe Seizures. Mohammad was a self-proclaimed prophet. There are no eye-witnesses to the “angel” or revelations. In comparison the Holy Bible has many eye-witness tesemonies, miracles and prophecies fufilled.
Yes the Old Testament is violent. GOD ordered things against a specific people at a specific time in a specific place. The Old Tetsament is a history book- it shows us how depraved man can be and why we need Jesus.
Supposedly the Quran is a book for all man for all time -so it calls for subduing and killing any non-muslim today! The Quran condones hate and violence.
The later verses revealed are the “better” verses. Chapter 9 is a later chapter-Quran is compliled by lenthg of verses not order of revelation which makes it difficult to place in context of time without hadith. BUT if you must place it in context of time than it is not a book for all man for all time.
9.5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem; but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
The **only sure **way a Muslim can reach paradise:
9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.
Supposedly the Quran denys the crucifixion of Jesus. It is pretty vague-many of the verses are vague. There is one creature that would deny the crucifixion of Jesus.
islam is basically the ONLY religion that con not coexist on equal footing- it must reign supreme bove all others.
9.33 It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest.
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Moro_Rock
Guest
The mind was created by God to contain truth. The Bible is God’s love-letter to all his children . Every other book which claims to be God’s revelation is a counterfeit .
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CathModerate
Guest
I have no respect for the Quaran. Islam must be eradicated from the earth because to NOT practice it as written is to not be a faithful muslim…which means one isnt into subjugating the infidels. Sure there could be Muslims like christians and catholics who approach it according to how they wanna view it and be peaceful but I think they are few. My opinion is the ones we see in the stores, on the street, etc who practice their religion are sleepers just waiting for the signal to kill. The only good muslim is a non practicing one
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dusty_david
Guest
I have no respect for the Quaran. Islam must be eradicated from the earth because to NOT practice it as written is to not be a faithful muslim…which means one isnt into subjugating the infidels. Sure there could be Muslims like christians and catholics who approach it according to how they wanna view it and be peaceful but I think they are few. My opinion is the ones we see in the stores, on the street, etc who practice their religion are sleepers just waiting for the signal to kill. The only good muslim is a non practicing one
There’s over 1.5 billion Muslims now. (adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html) That’s a lot to slaughter. I say this because devout Muslims not going to give up their faith and convert to Christianity. Think I’ve read here how devout Catholics will rather die than renounce their faith. I expect Muslims will feel no less. If “Islam must be eradicated from the earth,” then you’re going to have to get rid of the Muslims. I suspect Catholic theology will not support this. But please correct me if I’m wrong.
There’s over 1.5 billion Muslims now. (adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html) That’s a lot to slaughter. I say this because devout Muslims not going to give up their faith and convert to Christianity. Think I’ve read here how devout Catholics will rather die than renounce their faith. I expect Muslims will feel no less. If “Islam must be eradicated from the earth,” then you’re going to have to get rid of the Muslims. I suspect Catholic theology will not support this. But please correct me if I’m wrong.
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GraceDK
Guest
Bible - God’s revelation of His word. Through and through inspired.
Quran - false revelation that leads millions of people astray and cause suffering in this world and probably in the next for those who follow it
.The Bagahvad Ghita… I dont know enough about it to say whether it seems to be merely man’s work or if there are also totally anti-christian ideas in it, like there is in the Quran.
Quran - false revelation that leads millions of people astray and cause suffering in this world and probably in the next for those who follow it
.The Bagahvad Ghita… I dont know enough about it to say whether it seems to be merely man’s work or if there are also totally anti-christian ideas in it, like there is in the Quran.
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mdrummer5
Guest
Or it could be that you live in a predominately judeo-christian society and ONLY hear about the violent ones without considering that they’re actually the minority.
I don’t agree with their teachings either… but your perception is just ignorant.
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JHow
Guest
Actually, the opposite is true. We hear quite a lot about the peaceful muslims. It comes up every time someone mentions the latest atrocity/bomb/beheading, etc.
When thinking about the issue it might be valuable to consider the American example of the Ku Klux Klan in the American south. Only a small minority of Southerners participated in lynchings, beatings, cross-burnings. But would you dispute that a majority held attitudes that contributed to the mis-treatment of blacks in Southern society?
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AveChriste11
Guest
As someone who **used to **previously practice Islam to some extent, I find the Qur’an to be quite beautiful in its own way. If you ever get to hear it chanted in Arabic, well, that’s a real treat for sure! I know there are places on the internet where you can hear it being chanted this way.
But, like the others – I am also of the opinion that the fullness of Truth can only be found within Christianity; in the one holy, apostolic, and catholic church, for if God is our Father then the Church must be our mother. I feel that the only reason why some souls are led into these other faiths is because they were never properly catechized.
When you know the history of your faith, the many heresies she struggled with, and the many Church Fathers, Church Mothers, saints and martyrs that were willing to die for the Truth that was found within her walls… then you’ll have your answers. As to the Baghavad Gita, many have been blessed by the teachings of truth within it.
Many have found strong parallels between Krishna and Christ, yet that is still debatable. Much of his life has been mythologized, and we still can not really be certain of when or IF he ever existed. However, I am of the opinion that God has used many of the “kernels of truth” that can be found within the various strands of Hindu thought/philosophy, to lead people to Christ.
But, like the others – I am also of the opinion that the fullness of Truth can only be found within Christianity; in the one holy, apostolic, and catholic church, for if God is our Father then the Church must be our mother. I feel that the only reason why some souls are led into these other faiths is because they were never properly catechized.
When you know the history of your faith, the many heresies she struggled with, and the many Church Fathers, Church Mothers, saints and martyrs that were willing to die for the Truth that was found within her walls… then you’ll have your answers. As to the Baghavad Gita, many have been blessed by the teachings of truth within it.
Many have found strong parallels between Krishna and Christ, yet that is still debatable. Much of his life has been mythologized, and we still can not really be certain of when or IF he ever existed. However, I am of the opinion that God has used many of the “kernels of truth” that can be found within the various strands of Hindu thought/philosophy, to lead people to Christ.
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SedesDomi
Guest
Since the KKK claimed to be Christian, are you saying that Christianity is to blame for the KKK and Southern attitudes towards Blacks?
meltzerboy
New member
I haven’t read the Quran, but from what I’ve heard from many practicing Muslims, Islam is a religion of peace, not war or hatred, and those Muslims who think differently are distorting the religion. You’ve quoted four verses that speak otherwise, one of which may be taken figuratively, another of which states Islam is the Truth, but doesn’t mention war. Islamic proponents of violence probably also cite these passages. Most religions believe they hold the absolute Truth; surely Catholicism, Protestantism, and Judaism all believe so. And there are passages in the Bible as well that, when taken out of context from other passages, may suggest that Christianity and Judaism are non-peaceful religions. In fact, I’ve read that Islam believes other religions are valid in the eyes of G-d and all people of faith will share in the afterlife. But, of course, it believes that its religion contains more of the truth than others, just as other religions do.
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AveChriste11
Guest
I agree Meltzer, with many Muslims it depends on what “scholar” they listen to… and to what kind of interpretation of Islam the community around them has.
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GraceDK
Guest
Don’t you think there is an Islam in it self? A scolar might say something nice but often he is putting a humanistic view down on the text, which the text really doesn’t have.
Wafa Sultan, a famous former Muslim and Syrian doctor, said : Islam is exactly what Muhammad did and said.
I think that rings true. The real authorities in Islam are not the scolars, but the Quran, the Hadith and Sunna are the authority. And those show quite an unpleasant picture of Muhammad who is also called the perfect example for all Muslims.
I have studied the Quran and Hadith to some extent. And whereas you are right there are some nice and poetic things in it - by the way, I admire the Arabic language - its also statistically speaking a much more violent book than other religious books, compared to its length. I heard a talk about that by a Persian scolar who had actually made a serious comparative study on the occurence of violent words in different revelations.
When reading in the Quran a few weeks back I was also struck by the negativity, the warnings, and harshness. There seems to be an underlying threat all the time whereas Christ came and presented Himself as the great doctor and therapist who ate with publicans and sinners and lifted the sinners up into a feeling of self respect and repentance from sin, not through punishment or menacing them, but through love, prophesy and healing.
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schaick
Guest
You really should read the Quran, with the understanding that the early verses are the more peaceful ones and the later are violent. The Quran is not written in chronological order but compiled by length of verse.
There is this very handy verse to explain the contradictions between the early peaceful and later violent:
002.106 None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?
Muslims are allowed to fudge the truth if it furthers Islam. Their ultimate goal is to have the entire world be muslim with just a few suppressed non-muslims to pay the special tax.
kkk? The Gospel and Christ never condoned what they did. The Quran does condone evil and violence against non-muslims.
How do you tell a moderate muslim from a violent one? We have seen peaceful muslim turn on a dime to violence.
Here are some more violent verses:
4.74 Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
Don’t be a lazy believer!!
4.95 Not equal are those believers who sit and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit. Unto all Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit by a special reward,-
5.51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
There is not just violence against the non-muslim but the diagreeing wife:
4.34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds,** beat them**; but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means: For Allah is Most High, great.
Violence against child -Can be used to say it is ok to have sexual intercourse with a prebuscent girl:
65.4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses: for those who carry, their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.
Here’s a problem-
We understand the Old Testamemnt to be a history of man. The Old Testament shows us the immorality of man and why we need Jesus. The Muslims say the Quran is supposed to be for all man for all time. If you place it into context of time it is no longer the guide book for all people for all time.
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