SPLIT: Who can touch tabernacle, consecrated hosts, etc.?

[Ockham]

Well, I’m not a liturgical expert, but the introduction of EMHC didn’t raise the reverence of the Real Presence and I’d argue contributed to the decrease we see today.

In the Tridentine Mass, the priest offers prayers prior to entering the sanctuary, asking for God’s mercy in preparation to offer the Holy Sacrifice:

I will go into the altar of God
Do me justice, O God, and fight my fight against a faithless people;
from the deceitful and impious man rescue me.
Send forth Your light and Your fidelity;
they shall lead me on and bring me to Your holy mountain and to Your dwelling place.
Then will I give You thanks upon the harp, O God, my God!
Why are you so downcast, O my soul?
Why do you sigh within me?
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.
I will go into the altar of God.
Our help is in the name of the Lord.

In preparation for touching the consecrated host, the priest says the Lavabo prayer:

I wash my hands in innocence, and I go around Your altar, O Lord.
Giving voice to my thanks, and recounting all Your wonderous deeds.
O Lord, I love the house in which You dwell, the tenting place of Your glory.
Gather not my soul with those of sinners, nor with men of blood my life.
On their hands are crimes, and the right hands are full of bribes.
But I walk in integrity; redeem me, and have pity on me.
My foot stands on level ground; in the assemblies I will bless You, O Lord.
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end, Amen.

I’m not sure about how the EMHCs approach the altar in your church Pug, but in mine they make their way up to the altar during the Agnes Dei, no genuflecting, nor prayer or anything, get their chalice and start handing out Holy Communion. Heck, they even extend blessings to children.

Given the contrast between the reverence shown in the Tridentine Mass and the NO, I don’t believe it’s proper for a lay person to be touching nor distributing consecrated hosts.

Until I discovered the Tridentine Mass and our heritage I usually received from a EMHC. Since learning about the reverence once shown as standard in our Mass I can’t bear to do it the “new” way.

 

[Pug]

Given the contrast between the reverence shown in the Tridentine Mass and the NO, I don’t believe it’s proper for a lay person to be touching nor distributing consecrated hosts

The two prayers you quote are lovely. (that second is from a Psalm). That’s why I have an old missal. I got one to see the prayers.

I think it is akin to the concept of reverence that only designated people go close. Like the ark and that guy who stretched out his hand to steady it (and was struck dead). Or like the holy mountain blazing with fire and the people were afraid and so wanted Moses to be the one to go close. Or perhaps how Peter felt when he cast himself on the ground at the feet of Jesus and said depart from me Lord for I am a sinful man.

It is an odd thing, how I can both feel like Peter about the Host, and yet we receive the Host so intimately in communion (I mean that we consume).

 

[Jimzz12]

Thanks for the welcome: its the first so far!

Also, you are right about calling them extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion… I have gotten into the habit of calling them Eucharistic ministers due to the wide use of the term in my parish. It would confuse everyone to call them by their proper office, unfortunately.

However, if I am not mistaken, the Deacon cannot consecrate a host into the Holy Eucharist… Only the priest and above can.

Yeah and not only that but the people who are not supposed to be used ordinarily (aka the extraordinary folks) are never supposed to touch a tabernacle or tabernacle key.

 

[Danima]

Yeah and not only that but the people who are not supposed to be used ordinarily (aka the extraordinary folks) are never supposed to touch a tabernacle or tabernacle key.

Yeah, it is a bit disturbing when anyone touches the tabernacle… especially lay persons, who sometimes even kiss it. Although that it should not be done, I know that different people have a different level of faith, so I must accept it for the time being, and pray that their spirituality would be graced with increase.

 

[Ockham]

If lay people can touch the actual Body of Christ then why can’t they touch the tabernacle?

 

[kage_ar]

Yeah and not only that but the people who are not supposed to be used ordinarily (aka the extraordinary folks) are never supposed to touch a tabernacle or tabernacle key.

Would you provide a link to the official document that states this? Thank you.

 

[Danima]

If lay people can touch the actual Body of Christ then why can’t they touch the tabernacle?

That’s just it: lay people are not supposed to be able to touch the Eucharist either. In fact, altar servers used to be required to wear special liturgical gloves of linen just to serve at mass, since the chalice, paten, etc. are consecrated.

After Mary, the tabernacle is the New Testament Ark of the Covenant. It is so sacred that it should not be touched. Remember the story about the priest who was struck by lightning for touching it[1 Chronicles 13:10? And the 70 (+50,000) Philistines who died trying to open it [1Samuel 6:19]? It makes perfect sense: God is fully present also in Heaven, and nothing that has the slightest impurity (or sin) of any sort can come into Heaven (that’s why we have purgatory), let alone touch God.

 

[Jean_Anthony]

aaa

 

[PJM]

=Ockham;4907440]Well, I’m not a liturgical expert, but the introduction of EMHC didn’t raise the reverence of the Real Presence and I’d argue contributed to the decrease we see today.

In the Tridentine Mass, the priest offers prayers prior to entering the sanctuary, asking for God’s mercy in preparation to offer the Holy Sacrifice:

I will go into the altar of God
Do me justice, O God, and fight my fight against a faithless people;
from the deceitful and impious man rescue me.
Send forth Your light and Your fidelity;
they shall lead me on and bring me to Your holy mountain and to Your dwelling place.
Then will I give You thanks upon the harp, O God, my God!
Why are you so downcast, O my soul?
Why do you sigh within me?
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.
I will go into the altar of God.
Our help is in the name of the Lord.

In preparation for touching the consecrated host, the priest says the Lavabo prayer:

I wash my hands in innocence, and I go around Your altar, O Lord.
Giving voice to my thanks, and recounting all Your wonderous deeds.
O Lord, I love the house in which You dwell, the tenting place of Your glory.
Gather not my soul with those of sinners, nor with men of blood my life.
On their hands are crimes, and the right hands are full of bribes.
But I walk in integrity; redeem me, and have pity on me.
My foot stands on level ground; in the assemblies I will bless You, O Lord.
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit.
As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end, Amen.

I’m not sure about how the EMHCs approach the altar in your church Pug, but in mine they make their way up to the altar during the Agnes Dei, no genuflecting, nor prayer or anything, get their chalice and start handing out Holy Communion. Heck, they even extend blessings to children.

Given the contrast between the reverence shown in the Tridentine Mass and the NO, I don’t believe it’s proper for a lay person to be touching nor distributing consecrated hosts.

Until I discovered the Tridentine Mass and our heritage I usually received from a EMHC. Since learning about the reverence once shown as standard in our Mass I can’t bear to do it the “new” way.

:tiphat:Right on!

However I’m not sure you asked the right question?

Aparently ANYBODY and EVERYBODY can:blush: The real question that you ask is who SHOULD!

It’s actually scarry, the lack of Reverence for the God that made us! And yet, oh so many are only doing what they have been told is “good.” amd right.

Dear God help us!

Love and prayers,

 

[benedictgal]

Here is what the GIRM notes regarding the issue raised in this split topic:

1. The priest may be assisted in the distribution of Communion by other priests who happen to be present. If such priests are not present and there is a very large number of communicants, the priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, e.g., duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been deputed for this purpose.97 In case of necessity, the priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion.98

These ministers should not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion, and they are always to receive from the hands of the priest celebrant the vessel containing either species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful.

1. When the distribution of Communion is finished, the priest himself immediately and completely consumes at the altar any consecrated wine that happens to remain; as for any consecrated hosts that are left, he either consumes them at the altar or carries them to the place designated for the reservation of the Eucharist.

Thus, the EMHCs do not approach the altar until after the celebrant has communicated. Furthermore, since that is the case, then, they do not retrieve the ciborrium from the Tabernacle since this has already been done by the celebrant or the deacon. I am speaking to what happens during the Mass.

 

[Ockham]

Can a lay person go into the tabernacle at all?

 

[Phemie]

Can a lay person go into the tabernacle at all?

If you are an EMHC who is giving out Communion in the absence of a priest, not a rarity in this day and age, you have no choice but to approach the Tabernacle. Right now we are facing the possibility of 6 weeks without a priest in our parish. EMHCs will have to go to the Tabernacle themselves, otherwise, no communion for anyone for that time.

 

[Ockham]

What part of the country are you in?

It may not sound like the answer you want to hear, but if the role of the priest wasn’t so diminished there would probably be more seminarians.

Did you know the priest to seminarian ratio in the SSPX is nearly 2-1? If the other orders had that ratio your parish would have a priest right now.

 

[kage_ar]

Yeah and not only that but the people who are not supposed to be used ordinarily (aka the extraordinary folks) are never supposed to touch a tabernacle or tabernacle key.

Second request - documentation please?

 

[Pug]

Can a lay person go into the tabernacle at all?

Yes. For example, a layperson can repose the blessed sacrament after exposition if they must. By that I merely mean go to the monstrance, open the little window, and set the Blessed Sacrament (in the luna/lunette) in the box/pyx back into the tabernacle. Here is an ask an apologist thread for that, but I’ve seen it elsewhere. If I remember where, I’ll post it.

I do NOT mean they can do benediction, etc.

 

[Pug]

If I remember where, I’ll post it

Okay, I found it. This is cut from the document EUCHARISTIAE SACRAMENTUM. from 1973, red added so you know which part I mean.

**III. Minister Of Exposition
** 91. The ordinary minister for exposition of the eucharist is a priest or deacon. At the end of the period of adoration, before the reposition, he blesses the congregation with the sacrament.
In the absence of a priest or deacon or if they are lawfully impeded, the following persons may publicly expose and later repose the eucharist for the adoration of the faithful:
a. an acolyte or special minister of communion;
b. upon appointment by the local Ordinary, a member of a religious community or of a pious association of laymen or laywomen which is devoted to eucharistic adoration.
Such ministers may open the tabernacle and also, as required, place the ciborium on the altar or place the host in the monstrance. At the end of the period of adoration, they replace the blessed sacrament in the tabernacle. It is not lawful, however, for them to give the blessing with the sacrament.

 

[Phemie]

What part of the country are you in?

Labrador

It may not sound like the answer you want to hear, but if the role of the priest wasn’t so diminished there would probably be more seminarians.

Did you know the priest to seminarian ratio in the SSPX is nearly 2-1? If the other orders had that ratio your parish would have a priest right now.

Not necessarily, we’re considered mission territory because we’re isolated and few priests want to come here.

 

[Ockham]

The Holy Father is concerned with the recent trends of lay people performing the role of priests.

catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=15380

*The Pope also stressed the importance of priestly formation which must maintain “communion with unbroken ecclesial Tradition, without pausing or being tempted by discontinuity. In this context,” he continued, “it is important to encourage priests, especially the young generations, to a correct reading of the texts of Vatican Council II, interpreted in the light of all the Church’s doctrinal inheritance."

In conclusion, the Holy Father warned of the “dilution” of priestly ministry. He explained that the without priests, “there would be no Eucharist, no mission” or the Church. “It is necessary then, to ensure that ‘new structures’ or pastoral organizations are not planned for a time in which it will be possible to ‘do without’ ordained ministry, on the basis of an erroneous interpretation of the promotion of the laity, because this would lay the foundations for a further dilution in priestly ministry, and any supposed ‘solutions’ would, in fact, dramatically coincide with the real causes of the problems currently affecting the ministry."*

Is there a better example of “dilution of priestly ministry” than the Extraordinary Minster of Holy Communion? “Well (the argument goes) with the priest shortage our parish needs help, Father can’t do it all.” The Pope is saying these dilutions are causing the priest shortage. They are also against doctrine and leading to a reduction in faith. Only a priest can touch the tabernacle, consecrated host, etc.

 

[PhilotheaZ]

I have personally struggled with this issue with regard to taking Communion to the sick. Several years ago I was asked to take training to become an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion. After some time of prayer and discerning, I did so not to serve at parish Masses, but to take Communion to the sick. I think that is where there is a real need for EMHCs.

Many people living in nursing homes used to be daily communicants when they were healthy. If they had to wait for their priest to visit, some would be lucky to receive Communion once a month. (While some priests are very good about visiting their elderly parishioners, others rarely step foot into nursing homes.) If I were the one lying in that bed day in and day out, I would want someone to bring me Holy Communion with some regularity, even if it had to be a lay person doing it.

Every now and then I hear or read something saying that lay people (especially women) should never approach the tabernacle, should never touch the Eucharist with their hands, etc., and the internal struggle starts all over again. I have asked a few priests whom I judge trustworthy, getting different answers, but at this point I am still at the point where I think God wants me to be doing this.

It is my understanding that lay ministers are not to approach the tabernacle during Mass. During Mass, obviously a priest is available, so there is no need for a lay person to do it (unless the priest is severely disabled).

I am also trying to trust that the Church would not allow lay persons to take on this ministry if it offended God, and that I should not second-guess the Church in this respect.

Has anyone else dealt with this struggle in their ministry to the sick?

 

[diggerdomer]

Is there a better example of “dilution of priestly ministry” than the Extraordinary Minster of Holy Communion? “Well (the argument goes) with the priest shortage our parish needs help, Father can’t do it all.” The Pope is saying these dilutions are causing the priest shortage. They are also against doctrine and leading to a reduction in faith. Only a priest can touch the tabernacle, consecrated host, etc.

Yes, there are many better examples. If the Church allows for Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion then obviously they are not diluting the priestly ministry.

Sorry, it’s simply not true that only a priest can touch the tabernacle or consecrated host. If you have some Church teaching that can correct me, please share.

Cheers