SPLIT: Why confess to a priest?

[carmenp1]

I go to a priest outside my parish because I just feel more comfortable with a priest I do not know. The priest from the neighboring parish has never ever seen me outside of his confessional, and that the way I like it. I go every 1-3 weeks.

Hi, Carmen. Your post is off topic. Would you care to discuss the Biblical basis of Confession/Penance/Reconciliation with us in another thread?

Feel free to start a new thread in the Apologetics section. I would LOVE to discuss that with you there. (I know this sounds like I’m asking you to ‘step outside’ LOL) I am looking forward to it.

.

I am not sure what you mean by ‘to step outside’ ?

I didn’t think I was not on topic. I was talking about confession. My confession and repentance which I prayed to God. I know God was able to hear my confession. This was my first confession to God and it changed me. God saved me.

There are some comments from one or two who mistakenly assumed that I then went on with my life not needing to search my heart when God convicted me of sin, to humble myself before the Almighty God, and seek His forgiveness for those things He has shone His light upon. I am a sinner. I am living in a fallen world, and by God’s grace, He will cause me to stand. When I am tempted, God always makes a way of escape. So I cling to Him and put my trust in Him.
Carmen

 

[carmenp1]

I see your point Carmen but with that said there’s at least one objection but I want to be careful to not get into a heated debate over this.

Confession is a Sacrament of the Church.

Jesus chose to initiate this Sacrament. I’m sorry but at the moment while on my cell phone I won’t be able to give as much biblical scripture and evidence detail as I’d like.

Jesus gave his disciples the authority to forgive sins, the authority to bind and lose etc. It is there you see Jesus initiate the Sacrament of Confession. And besides Catholic teaching on Confession there is something profoundly healing when confessing your sin to a Priest. Not only healing but an empowering grace when in confession.

I’m certain I could say more but I’m rather limited at this moment but I’ll come back later and add more or see what others have added. It is also a good time to briefly mention that this is a major difference between Baptist theology and Catholic theology is the Sacramental life of a Catholic which is often misunderstood by Baptists and other denominations similar to the Baptist church. I’m pretty familiar with Baptist theology and other Evangelical and Charismatic theology. I’ve had a diverse experience in the time I was involved with the Protestant tradition.

I got saved in the Potter’s house in 1988. But I am not a Potter house follower. I now go to a Baptist church but I have no idea what their doctrine is. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I do know God’s doctrine. I can only speak for myself, but I think that if I follow Christ and His teachings I will finish my race, as Paul says.

I am familiar with the scripture where God mentions loosing and binding. I have read the bible from start to finish many times, over the years but I haven’t come across scripture to give me the understanding that God made it a sacrament. I have always understood scripture was instructing me to go to God with repentance, seeking forgiveness for my sins in the name of Jesus Christ. With the belief that it is only by the blood that Jesus shed for my sins that my prayer for forgiveness will be acceptable to God. Understanding, that it is not by my works but by the grace of God so I cannot boast that I did anything to be forgiven.

The belief that I believe I only have to confess my sins to God once is not compatable with my sinful nature. I am a sinner. I am going to make mistakes, sin when I am tempted or led astray. When I find myself under the conviction of God’s Holy Spirit and His hand lays heavy upon me, I know I need to humble myself before God and confess my sins and ask His forgiveness. I strive to live my life for God and to do His will.

God says if we confess our sins He is faithful and forgives us.

Is this not what your bible says?

It is impossible to belief anything else when God, has forgiven me, when I go to Him and has so blessed me, with His grace these 24 years. What more can God do for me?

Carmen

 

[carmenp1]

Exactly! If people would do even the slightest bit of study on a subject, they would find the clear answers to their questions. In all charity, my opinion is that they come here just to argue, if they actually wanted to know, they would have found out something so easily found out.

I think you have judged harshly. How is it charity to sit in judgment on those you know so little. Doesn’t God say do not judge lest you be judged.

It is a strong accusation to charge any follower of Christ. If you were truly gracious, you would accept that as a follower of Christ they have better intentions than to be so mean spirited as to post on this forum just to argue.

I don’t know what they could easily have found out. What is this something?

Carmen

 

[Della]

I got saved in the Potter’s house in 1988. But I am not a Potter house follower. I now go to a Baptist church but I have no idea what their doctrine is. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I do know God’s doctrine. I can only speak for myself, but I think that if I follow Christ and His teachings I will finish my race, as Paul says.

The Baptists, for the most part, follow Calvin’s theology that is, boiled down, “once saved always saved.” The theology is too complicated to go into, but it basically says no matter what sins you commit they have already been forgiven. If you don’t believe that, you may wish to discuss it with your Baptist pastor if you wish to remain an active member of his church.

I am familiar with the scripture where God mentions loosing and binding. I have read the bible from start to finish many times, over the years but I haven’t come across scripture to give me the understanding that God made it a sacrament.

The NT isn’t a theological treatise. The Gospels and Epistles don’t tell us what consistutes sound doctrine. The Church that Christ founded does that because Jesus gave Peter and the Apostles that power when he breathed the Holy Spirit on them and declared that the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth.

I have always understood scripture was instructing me to go to God with repentance, seeking forgiveness for my sins in the name of Jesus Christ. With the belief that it is only by the blood that Jesus shed for my sins that my prayer for forgiveness will be acceptable to God. Understanding, that it is not by my works but by the grace of God so I cannot boast that I did anything to be forgiven.

Yes indeed, the Scripture is useful for these things. Catholics too are to read from the Bible daily. Jesus’ Blood definitely does satisfy God’s justice for our sins. We Catholics take this so seriously that we offer Jesus’ Body and Blood on our altars daily for our sins and the sins of the world. God’s gives everyone a portion of his grace because Jesus redeemed us on the cross. You have tapped into that grace more than some others have done. And indeed, this is God’s doing, as it is for all of us who avail ourselves of God’s grace.

The belief that I believe I only have to confess my sins to God once is not compatable with my sinful nature. I am a sinner. I am going to make mistakes, sin when I am tempted or led astray. When I find myself under the conviction of God’s Holy Spirit and His hand lays heavy upon me, I know I need to humble myself before God and confess my sins and ask His forgiveness. I strive to live my life for God and to do His will.

God says if we confess our sins He is faithful and forgives us.

Is this not what your bible says?

And so do we Catholics. But it isn’t just about us as individuals but about the Body of Christ, as well. When we sin we don’t just sin against God but against his Church–all the baptized in the whole world. How do we make satisfaction for that? Catholic priests offer absolution, which puts us right with God and his Body, not just between us and God. Remember the prodigal son? He said, “I have sinned against God and against my father.” He understood that his sin did damage to more than God’s glory, but to his family, as well. That’s why he said he’d beg his father to make him one of his servants instead of being received back as his son. That he was received back was a pure act of mercy on the father’s part. But, it didn’t solve the son’s issues with his brother, who had a right to feel disgusted and put upon. It was the father who attempted to reconcile the brothers with each other, not God only. Our relationships with our fellow believers is just as important as those we have with God alone.

It is impossible to belief anything else when God, has forgiven me, when I go to Him and has so blessed me, with His grace these 24 years. What more can God do for me?

Carmen

God can do a lot more for you, dear friend in Christ! He can allow you to partake of his very Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Eucharist–Holy Communion. You can have the benefit of all the Sacraments, receiving grace upon grace upon grace. You wouldn’t be giving up a thing as a Catholic. Rather, you’d be gaining more than you ever dreamed possible.

 

[SjMelnychuk]

I got saved in the Potter’s house in 1988. But I am not a Potter house follower. I now go to a Baptist church but I have no idea what their doctrine is. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I do know God’s doctrine. I can only speak for myself, but I think that if I follow Christ and His teachings I will finish my race, as Paul says.

I am familiar with the scripture where God mentions loosing and binding. I have read the bible from start to finish many times, over the years but I haven’t come across scripture to give me the understanding that God made it a sacrament. I have always understood scripture was instructing me to go to God with repentance, seeking forgiveness for my sins in the name of Jesus Christ. With the belief that it is only by the blood that Jesus shed for my sins that my prayer for forgiveness will be acceptable to God. Understanding, that it is not by my works but by the grace of God so I cannot boast that I did anything to be forgiven.

The belief that I believe I only have to confess my sins to God once is not compatable with my sinful nature. I am a sinner. I am going to make mistakes, sin when I am tempted or led astray. When I find myself under the conviction of God’s Holy Spirit and His hand lays heavy upon me, I know I need to humble myself before God and confess my sins and ask His forgiveness. I strive to live my life for God and to do His will.

God says if we confess our sins He is faithful and forgives us.

Is this not what your bible says?

It is impossible to belief anything else when God, has forgiven me, when I go to Him and has so blessed me, with His grace these 24 years. What more can God do for me?

Carmen

It says in the bible that if we confess our sins He is just and faithful and forgive us our sins… ABSOLUTELY He is all these things but nowhere in the bible does it say we are only accountable to God, and nowhere in the bible does it say Confess your sins directly to God. In fact, Jn 20:19-31 Jesus directly gives His Apostles the authority to retain and to forgive sins. It is here you see Jesus initiating the sacrament of confession and just as the scripture says, if we confess our sins God will forgive us our sins… But this verse that says if we confess our sins it doesn’t say confess directly to God. However, in the sacrament of confession we confess to God and to the body of Christ through the Priesthood while understanding Jn 20:19-31 in the context of Jesus Apostles being given the authority to forgive sins. If we can bypass the confession of our sins to a Priest why then do the Apostles have the authority to forgive sin? It would otherwise be pointless to give such authority.

 

[SjMelnychuk]

It is a strong accusation to charge any follower of Christ. If you were truly gracious, you would accept that as a follower of Christ they have better intentions than to be so mean spirited as to post on this forum just to argue.

I don’t know what they could easily have found out. What is this something?

Carmen

I see your point Carmen. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I don’t believe you have wrong motives when on this forum. I think it’s rather difficult make such a statement without there being a pattern. Although there are some, so it seems, who just want to argue instead of dialogue. It’s great you are on this forum, especially if you want to understand the teachings of the Catholic Church better. I just have one or two points:

1. I find non-Catholic people ignorant of the Catholic faith. I know this because I was that ignorant non-Catholic a few years ago.
2. When I first began dialogue with Catholic people I did so with the understanding that maybe I have a few misconceptions about the Catholic faith.
3. The way I was taught to interpret scripture for myself left it open for me to interpret scripture wrongly. It wasn’t until I listened to Catholic Apologists give biblical reasonsfor the Catholic faith. I quickly realized there was so much more to the Christian faith then I had previously thought. I came to that realization when I decided to look deeper into Catholic teaching and see the evidence in scripture. It’s all there but as non-Catholics we’re told Catholics are wrong and so in a way we’re conditioned to believe either their interpretation is wrong or maybe Catholics get some things wrong and some things right and it’s OK to disagree… And so some just say that the Catholic Church is just another one of 44,000+ different denominations. I have to say that now as a Catholic that’s just not a good enough reason.

Either we confess to a Priest or we don’t
Either the Eucharist is the full blood body and divinity of Christ or not
Either James 2:24 is holy inspired or it’s not but I couldn’t continue believing in the authority of scripture and yet contradict James 2:24 you know…

Once I saw in scripture how the Catholic Church had the full truth the rest of scripture began to open up and I began to see how while I read the bible and even spent 3 years at a Bible College I realized I somehow began to read bible verses I didn’t read before…or should I say there was a missing link that I finally found a solution for. That missing link was found only in the Catholic Church, the Church Jesus established. Don’t you think God, in his omnipotent power could and can preserve the Church He established by His Holy Spirit? And with 44,000 + denominations does it make sense to say that we ourselves can’t say that our interpretation of scripture is not the final authority? In 1Tim 3:16 (I think … Not sure if that’s the correct bible verse but I think it is) the bible says the Church is the pillar and bullwark of truth so right there even the bible says that the bible is not the supreme authority of truth but rather the Church! Now ain’t that just a bit interesting?

 

[Frankenfurter]

The experience of confessing sins to God in your heart is one thing. It is a good thing to do for sure.

The experience of confessing sins out loud to another person is an entirely different experience.

God knows this and has asked us to also do the later.

When you have confessed your sins aloud you can not hide from them.

Evil hides in the dark while holiness basks in the light of truth.:heaven:

 

[Church_Militant]

Carmen, perhaps you will get the facts that you need to understand this if you take the time to carefully study these articles of mine.

• “I Find No Sacraments In the Bible” he said.
• Catholic Confession
• Scriptures About Penance

 

[Church_Militant]

I got saved in the Potter’s house in 1988. But I am not a Potter house follower. I now go to a Baptist church but I have no idea what their doctrine is. I am a follower of Jesus Christ. I do know God’s doctrine. I can only speak for myself, but I think that if I follow Christ and His teachings I will finish my race, as Paul says.

I am familiar with the scripture where God mentions loosing and binding. I have read the bible from start to finish many times, over the years but I haven’t come across scripture to give me the understanding that God made it a sacrament. I have always understood scripture was instructing me to go to God with repentance, seeking forgiveness for my sins in the name of Jesus Christ. With the belief that it is only by the blood that Jesus shed for my sins that my prayer for forgiveness will be acceptable to God. Understanding, that it is not by my works but by the grace of God so I cannot boast that I did anything to be forgiven.

The belief that I believe I only have to confess my sins to God once is not compatable with my sinful nature. I am a sinner. I am going to make mistakes, sin when I am tempted or led astray. When I find myself under the conviction of God’s Holy Spirit and His hand lays heavy upon me, I know I need to humble myself before God and confess my sins and ask His forgiveness. I strive to live my life for God and to do His will.

God says if we confess our sins He is faithful and forgives us.

Is this not what your bible says?

It is impossible to belief anything else when God, has forgiven me, when I go to Him and has so blessed me, with His grace these 24 years. What more can God do for me?

Carmen

I see you too have believed the edited version of the New Testament teaching on confession of sins.

Consider the following passages of scripture for context.

John 20:21-23 is so important.
"21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."

James 5:16 & 1st John 1:9 also offer us more insight into this doctrine.

---

James 5: 14 Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick man: and the Lord shall raise him up: and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16 Confess therefore your sins one to another: and pray one for another, that you may be saved. For the continual prayer of a just man availeth much.

1st John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all iniquity.***

 

[Church_Militant]

John Martignoni has a rather excellent brief answer to this topic on his website. Here are his study notes.

Confession

A. Confess your sins to men
~ Leviticus 5:5-6 (“All scripture…”: 2 Tim 3:16)
(Law is a shadow: Hebrews 10:1)
~ 1 John 1:9
~ James 5:16

B. Can men forgive sins?
~ Only God has the power to forgive sins but He exercises this power through men.
~ Mark 2:7
~ Matthew 9:1-8
When the crowds saw it, they were afraid , and the glorified God, who had given such authority to men.

• Matthew 9:8

Why do Catholics confess their sins to a priest, rather than going directly to God?

Well, the quick answer is because that’s the way God wants us to do it. In James 5:16, God, through Sacred Scripture, commands us to “confess our sins to one another.” Notice, Scripture does not say confess your sins straight to God and only to God…it says confess your sins to one another.

In Matthew, chapter 9, verse 6, Jesus tells us that He was given authority on earth to forgive sins. And then Scripture proceeds to tell us, in verse 8, that this authority was given to “men”…plural.

In John 20, verses 21-23, what is the 1st thing Jesus says to the gathered disciples on the night of His resurrection? “Jesus said to them, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’” How did the Father send Jesus? Well, we just saw in Mt 9 that the Father sent Jesus with the authority on earth to forgive sins. Now, Jesus sends out His disciples as the Father has sent Him…so, what authority must Jesus be sending His disciples out with? The authority on earth to forgive sins. And, just in case they didn’t get it, verses 22-23 say this, “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’”

Why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive or to retain sins if He wasn’t expecting folks to confess their sins to them? And how could they forgive or retain sins if no one was confessing their sins to them?

The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another. It also tells us that God gave men the authority on Earth to forgive sins. Jesus sends out His disciples with the authority on earth to forgive sins. When Catholics confess our sins to a priest, we are simply following the plan laid down by Jesus Christ. He forgives sins through the priest…it is God’s power, but He exercises that power through the ministry of the priest.

 

[SjMelnychuk]

Ya, … What Church Militant said —^

I mean, it’s all there if we study carefully Sacred Scripture and honestly take a closer look at the teachings of the church.

 

[carmenp1]

QUOTE=Church Militant;12784018]I see you too have believed the edited version of the New Testament teaching on confession of sins.

Your comment “edited version” makes me wonder if you feel my bible is erroneous or missing something. Please indulge me. I would like to address this and hopefully allay any fears that the NKJ Bible is wanting.

I have been reading the NKJ 1988. The Word of God is alive and God can lift scripture up from the page to warn, comfort, encourage and so on.

For example:
God gave me this scripture on Tue 3/8/1993 Isaiah 7: 1-9 “…take heed and be quiet, do not fear or be fainthearted for these two stubs of smoking firebrands…have taken evil counsel against you…Thus says the Lord God: ‘It shall not stand, nor shall it come to pass…If you will not believe surely you shall not be established.”

Quote from my diary: “This was God’s first warning about Robin and Marj’s (his mother) plans to take Madeline and Candice to Thailand.” **End quote from Diary
**
God gave me this scripture Thurs 5/8/1993 Psalm 64 “Oppressed by the wicked by rejoicing in the Lord” “…They encourage themselves in an evil matter, they talk of laying snares secretly; they say “Who will see them?” They devise iniquities; “We have perfected a shrewd scheme.” Both the inward thought and the heart of man are deep. But God shall shoot at them with an arrow; suddenly they shall be wounded. So He will make them stumble over their own tongue, all who see them shall flee away…”

Quote from my diary “This scripture confirmed the one of 3/8/93 and laid out what God intended to do in this situation, which is exactly what happened. The secret plan was exposed by Robin’s own correspondence so it became very obvious what he planned to do, even to the Family Court and access was terminated for some time. Robin left to live in Thailand on 21/10/93 (a work colleague told me when I happened to ring one day). So these two warnings were given 3 months before he quit his job and left. There must have been some scheming going on in the meantime though.

I started receiving Robin’s letters post marked (Western Regional Exchange) Melbourne and told me how he was now the boss at work but the envelopes looked as if they had been folded to fit into another envelope as when you send a ‘self addressed envelope’. And there was quite a delay between the date he wrote the letter and when it was posted. Then after a couple of months of this, I received a Passport application for the kids which finally put everything in a more alarming light and I went to Court. Got Orders “No Access”. So, none of his scheming came to pass thanks to God.” End Quote from my diary.

God gave me this scripture Sun 14/10/93 Psalm 37:40 “And the Lord shall help them and deliver them from the wicked and save them, because they trust in Him.”

Quote from my diary “God gave me this BEFORE I knew exactly, ie. the details of Robin and Marj’s plans to get the kids out of the country!” End quote from my diary.

The NKJ says James 5:14 “Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him”

It says “elders”. I would think that he would have had all the elders of the church go to him and pray over him. Not just one elder or priest.

16 “Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.”

It is saying to confess our trespasses to one another. Not to an elder or a priest.

Citing “Vines Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words” Page 643 James 5:16, KJV, “faults” (RV, “sins” translates the word hamartias, which is found in the best texts), auricular confession to a priest is not in view here or anywhere else in Scripture; the command is comprehensive, and speaks either of the acknowledgment of sin where one has wronged another, or of the unburdening of a troubled conscience to a godly brother whose prayers will be efficacious, or of open confession before the church.”

Vines dictionary of this passage in James confirms my belief that God hasn’t said to confess to a priest. To confess to one another would be very helpful if one could confide in a godly brother.

I got saved by being led in a prayer of repentance of my sins by Pastor Spurgeon, who also prayed for me. That was the start of my walk with God. I am still in the flesh, and a sinner. From the day I got saved, God has been working in my life as it says in 2Cor 3:18 “But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
Romans 12:2 “And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is the good and acceptable and perfect will of God” The bible is the most important method of renewing our minds. I haven’t read scripture that tells me I cannot confess to God and ask Him to forgive me. That’s what I have been doing and if this was not acceptable to God, I doubt He would have allowed me to have a close relationship with Him and help me in so many ways over such a long time.

I can only speak for myself, and take into consideration the experiences I have had during my salvation.

Carmen

 

[carmenp1]

John Martignoni has a rather excellent brief answer to this topic on his website. Here are his study notes.Why do Catholics confess their sins to a priest, rather than going directly to God?

Well, the quick answer is because that’s the way God wants us to do it. In James 5:16, God, through Sacred Scripture, commands us to “confess our sins to one another.” Notice, Scripture does not say confess your sins straight to God and only to God…it says confess your sins to one another.

In Matthew, chapter 9, verse 6, Jesus tells us that He was given authority on earth to forgive sins. And then Scripture proceeds to tell us, in verse 8, that this authority was given to “men”…plural.

In John 20, verses 21-23, what is the 1st thing Jesus says to the gathered disciples on the night of His resurrection? “Jesus said to them, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’” How did the Father send Jesus? Well, we just saw in Mt 9 that the Father sent Jesus with the authority on earth to forgive sins. Now, Jesus sends out His disciples as the Father has sent Him…so, what authority must Jesus be sending His disciples out with? The authority on earth to forgive sins. And, just in case they didn’t get it, verses 22-23 say this, “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’”

Why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive or to retain sins if He wasn’t expecting folks to confess their sins to them? And how could they forgive or retain sins if no one was confessing their sins to them?

The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another. It also tells us that God gave men the authority on Earth to forgive sins. Jesus sends out His disciples with the authority on earth to forgive sins. When Catholics confess our sins to a priest, we are simply following the plan laid down by Jesus Christ. He forgives sins through the priest…it is God’s power, but He exercises that power through the ministry of the priest.

What about the Lord’s prayer
Our Father who art in heaven
…the part that says forgive us our trespasses

It is a template of how we should pray to God.
Worship Him
Thank Him
His will be done
Pray for our daily needs
Forgive our sins
Forgive others

Carmen

 

[SjMelnychuk]

Your comment “edited version” makes me wonder if you feel my bible is erroneous or missing something.

The Word of God is alive and God can lift scripture up from the page to warn, comfort, encourage and so on.

It is saying to confess our trespasses to one another. Not to an elder or a priest.

Carmen

I wanted to respond to a few things here …

First: re: “edited version” with all do respect, any Protestant denominations bible translations are missing something. For example, in the Protestant Church they only accept 66 books as inspired while Catholics have a few more books in the bible so in short, yes, the KJV or any other translation of scripture that a Protestant would use is most definitely missing something, a few more inspired books! So yes, the KJV is most definitely an “edited version” and is most definitely missing something, quite a few things. And as mentioned above at the most basic level would be the books that Protestant’s historically had subtracted from the inspired word of God.

Second: word of God is alive and God can lift scripture up to warm, comfort, etc

Of course, any knowledgeable Catholic will know this to be true but our objection is not with the word of God but rather your interpretation of Sacred Scriptures. And really, to most Catholics we don’t argue as to which bible translation is the more superior of all translations as if the KJV is the superior translation? Regardless of the translation of Sacred Scriptures I’d much rather go to the Catechism as a resource for correct interpretation and understanding of scripture and why would any of us read an incomplete bible version? Keeping in mind that the bible is a Catholic book! So if the bible is a Catholic book it makes sense that the Catholic Church would have some very good insightful knowledge of it. So again, as Catholics we do not have issues with Sacred Scripture but we will object to various interpretations of scripture that stands in contradiction to what the Catholic Church teaches.

Finally, the bible most validates the Sacrament of Confession …

For the sake of being redundant … to quote Church Militant below

---

In John 20, verses 21-23, what is the 1st thing Jesus says to the gathered disciples on the night of His resurrection? “Jesus said to them, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’” How did the Father send Jesus? Well, we just saw in Mt 9 that the Father sent Jesus with the authority on earth to forgive sins. Now, Jesus sends out His disciples as the Father has sent Him…so, what authority must Jesus be sending His disciples out with? The authority on earth to forgive sins. And, just in case they didn’t get it, verses 22-23 say this, “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’”

---

Jesus gives the Apostles the authority to forgive and to retain sins … if God did not intend to have us confess our sins why then did he Apostles be granted such authority to forgive and to retain sins? In order for the Apostles to forgive and to retain sins a people would have to confess to the Apostles in order to be forgiven… if God did not intend for us to confess our sins to a Priest why would he give a Priest this Authority? So don’t just bypass this very important point or ignore this passage of Sacred Scripture. If you believe the bible to be authoritative then you now have to agree that Jesus gave His Apostles the Authority to forgive and to retain sins… So now that we see in the bible the verse that says the Apostles have the authority to forgive and to retain sins, doesn’t it seem logical then to confess our sins to a Priest?

 

[carmenp1]

I wanted to respond to a few things here …

First: re: “edited version” with all do respect, any Protestant denominations bible translations are missing something. For example, in the Protestant Church they only accept 66 books as inspired while Catholics have a few more books in the bible so in short, yes, the KJV or any other translation of scripture that a Protestant would use is most definitely missing something, a few more inspired books! So yes, the KJV is most definitely an “edited version” and is most definitely missing something, quite a few things. And as mentioned above at the most basic level would be the books that Protestant’s historically had subtracted from the inspired word of God.

Second: word of God is alive and God can lift scripture up to warm, comfort, etc

Of course, any knowledgeable Catholic will know this to be true but our objection is not with the word of God but rather your interpretation of Sacred Scriptures. And really, to most Catholics we don’t argue as to which bible translation is the more superior of all translations as if the KJV is the superior translation? Regardless of the translation of Sacred Scriptures I’d much rather go to the Catechism as a resource for correct interpretation and understanding of scripture and why would any of us read an incomplete bible version? Keeping in mind that the bible is a Catholic book! So if the bible is a Catholic book it makes sense that the Catholic Church would have some very good insightful knowledge of it. So again, as Catholics we do not have issues with Sacred Scripture but we will object to various interpretations of scripture that stands in contradiction to what the Catholic Church teaches.

Finally, the bible most validates the Sacrament of Confession …

For the sake of being redundant … to quote Church Militant below

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In John 20, verses 21-23, what is the 1st thing Jesus says to the gathered disciples on the night of His resurrection? “Jesus said to them, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’” How did the Father send Jesus? Well, we just saw in Mt 9 that the Father sent Jesus with the authority on earth to forgive sins. Now, Jesus sends out His disciples as the Father has sent Him…so, what authority must Jesus be sending His disciples out with? The authority on earth to forgive sins. And, just in case they didn’t get it, verses 22-23 say this, “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’”

---

Jesus gives the Apostles the authority to forgive and to retain sins … if God did not intend to have us confess our sins why then did he Apostles be granted such authority to forgive and to retain sins? In order for the Apostles to forgive and to retain sins a people would have to confess to the Apostles in order to be forgiven… if God did not intend for us to confess our sins to a Priest why would he give a Priest this Authority? So don’t just bypass this very important point or ignore this passage of Sacred Scripture. If you believe the bible to be authoritative then you now have to agree that Jesus gave His Apostles the Authority to forgive and to retain sins… So now that we see in the bible the verse that says the Apostles have the authority to forgive and to retain sins, doesn’t it seem logical then to confess our sins to a Priest?

Is one of the books in the Catholic bible xalked the jacobites?

I didn’t say the NKJ is superior to other versions. I read the ESV. I read my Catholic bible for short time when I first got saved. It’s a personal preference.

In 1988, I didn’t confess to a priest.
But I got saved by opening my mouth to confess my belief that Jesus Christ is Lord, died for my sins. I spoke out loud, not in my heart.

I repented, asked God to change me and help me live for Him.

Did God accept my confession and repentant heart when I prayed to Him and asked His forgiveness?

Did He or didn’t He? Even though I went straight to Him?

Am I saved or on my way to Hell?

Carmen

 

[rfournier103]

John Martignoni has a rather excellent brief answer to this topic on his website. Here are his study notes.Why do Catholics confess their sins to a priest, rather than going directly to God?

Well, the quick answer is because that’s the way God wants us to do it. In James 5:16, God, through Sacred Scripture, commands us to “confess our sins to one another.” Notice, Scripture does not say confess your sins straight to God and only to God…it says confess your sins to one another.

In Matthew, chapter 9, verse 6, Jesus tells us that He was given authority on earth to forgive sins. And then Scripture proceeds to tell us, in verse 8, that this authority was given to “men”…plural.

In John 20, verses 21-23, what is the 1st thing Jesus says to the gathered disciples on the night of His resurrection? “Jesus said to them, ‘Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’” How did the Father send Jesus? Well, we just saw in Mt 9 that the Father sent Jesus with the authority on earth to forgive sins. Now, Jesus sends out His disciples as the Father has sent Him…so, what authority must Jesus be sending His disciples out with? The authority on earth to forgive sins. And, just in case they didn’t get it, verses 22-23 say this, “And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.’”

Why would Jesus give the Apostles the power to forgive or to retain sins if He wasn’t expecting folks to confess their sins to them? And how could they forgive or retain sins if no one was confessing their sins to them?

The Bible tells us to confess our sins to one another. It also tells us that God gave men the authority on Earth to forgive sins. Jesus sends out His disciples with the authority on earth to forgive sins. When Catholics confess our sins to a priest, we are simply following the plan laid down by Jesus Christ. He forgives sins through the priest…it is God’s power, but He exercises that power through the ministry of the priest.

What about the Lord’s prayer
Our Father who art in heaven
…the part that says forgive us our trespasses

It is a template of how we should pray to God.
Worship Him
Thank Him
His will be done
Pray for our daily needs
Forgive our sins
Forgive others

Carmen

Carmen… I like to keep things simple.

Jesus Christ gave His chosen ministers (the first Bishops) the Holy Spirit and the AUTHORITY to forgive sins. You have in no way been able to refute this. You answer back with the Lord’s Prayer; but if that is all we need, why would Jesus grant this powerful authority to those men in John Chapter 20? You refuse to answer that.

John 20:21-23 ~ (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them,** “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” **

Why would Jesus bestow this authority if it is unnecessary? And how can they know what sins to forgive unless they are confessed orally?

And what about the authority to bind and loose? Maybe I can get into that, too when time permits.

Good day.

 

[SjMelnychuk]

Carmen- you asked if you are saved or going to hell…

In short - I don’t know and it’s not for any of us to judge your eternal security in Christ. I don’t disregard the relationship Protestants have with Jesus. There is faith. In fact we’re both Christian and so we share many things in common.

I converted to the Catholic faith because we are held accountable to the truth revealed to us. For me, because this truth was revealed to me I had to be obedient to that truth because to simply believe is not good enough as it says in James 2:24 that we are NOT justified by faith alone but justified by works.

But we’re not talking necessarily about salvation but the Sacrament of confession and giving reason for the Sacrament of confession which has been clearly evidenced in many scripture verses.

Why do we confess our sins to a Priest?

The simple answer?

Because Jesus gave authority to the Apostles to forgive and to retain sin. If God didn’t to have us confess to a Priest why does he give a Priest such authority?

So I agree with the commenter above. Carmen, you haven’t yet refuted anything that quite a few of us sataed.

 

[Della]

Carmen, this thread was split and put into the Apologetics forum because you asked: “Why not go to God” to confess our sins?

We Catholics are explaining why that is not always enough. We are not trying to make you believe anything.

As a Protestant you may go all your life without confessing to a priest and be saved. If your desire is to love God and not willfully commit grave sins, then you are okay. Not that we wouldn’t be delighted to see you reconciled to the Church by becoming Catholic, but we know that God can and does work apart from his own sacraments to bring people outside full union with the Church to salvation.

What we are trying to show you is that you have a limited understanding of the sacraments because you don’t understand the Bible within the context of the Church that gave us the NT. The Church fully understands the Bible–it is her book. She has compiled its canon, studied it closely down through the centuries, and has made it available in the languages of the people. She was given the charism of infallibility in matters of faith and morals by Christ himself. We are not, therefore, contradicting Scripture, but rather following it completely–taking quite literally what many Protestants try to explain away or gloss over. A great book about this is available to read online: Where We Got the Bible: Our Debt to the Catholic Church. The author gives the history of the Bible without attacking anyone’s beliefs. It is an excellent resource.

Whatever experience any of us have of Christ is good. No one is saying your relationship with him isn’t good. What we are saying is that you are denying yourself all that God has for you in his Church. You don’t have to accept that’s the case. We aren’t here to make you believe anything. But we must tell you the truth for we will answer to God for it if, merely to make you feel comfortable in your beliefs, we don’t,. That is not love–it’s lying. We are responding to you for your benefit because we know what we have and are eager to share it with you.

 

[SjMelnychuk]

Hey Carmen, I wanted to respond again just to add to and bring clarity to what I posted. Sometimes I respond from my cell phone so I’m limited with what I can do. So I don’t always have the resources to properly research to find the most accurate information so often times I’m giving bible verses or references bible verses from memory.

My observation when I was involved with the Protestant tradition I find people involved with the Protestant tradition, especially folks involved with denominations that are historically anti-Catholic this kind of dialogue becomes us vs them kind of conversation with the view that Catholics don’t have a “saving knowledge of Jesus Christ”. From my observation as a former Pentecostal / Baptist roots that the majority of Baptists and Pentecostals don’t believe that Catholics are saved and that the Catholic faith is a “works based faith” which following that logic would mean to say that because of the view that Catholics have a works based faith they are not saved.

In response to that? It is more accurate to say the Catholic faith is a “Grace based faith” but following that we’d have to discuss what is meant by the term “Grace” and what the difference is between Grace and Mercy. And then following that to go into further discussion of what it means to say that, in accordance to Catholic teachings that we justified by faith AND works not FAITH ALONE.

So in order to really respond to what you posted we need to break things down a little.

However, based upon your responses, it seems as though you hadn’t really given what Church Militant posted seriously enough to actually respond to his comments as he posted quite a lot of scriptural references which you haven’t refuted or have been able to adequately respond to. So I’m kind of wondering why you haven’t responded to what Church Militant had posted?

OK … moving forward …

Is one of the books in the Catholic bible xalked the jacobites?

In response to the Jacobites you can follow the link below:
newadvent.org/cathen/14417a.htm

In short, the Jacobites followed a rite and geographically is found to have existed in Syria. Perhaps, if I am following the information right, the Coptic Church follows this Rite. Maybe others can add more to this because now we’re heading into Eastern and Western Church history. Contrary to what you might have been taught in the Baptist Church, I do know this to be fact pending on which Baptist Church you have associated mostly with, but some Baptist denominations will teach that the Baptist Church was founded by Jesus Christ with John the Baptist. That doesn’t quite line up with when the Baptist Church was officially established but that’s besides the point. The point is this, when we’re talking about Eastern Orthodox and Coptic Churches you are references Schisms within the Church that pre-dates the Reformation. That of course would necessitate a different thread because we’re not addressing the Schisms and we’re not address the Reformation in this thread.

**Lets try to stay on topic. We’re addressing “Why confess to a Priest” **

I didn’t say the NKJ is superior to other versions. I read the ESV.

Usually when people reference on particular bible translation they do so because the individual tries to convey validity behind their statements. There is that old argument, and I’ve sat through many conversations, more conversations then I’d care to admit because it’s rather a foolish discussion, but I’ve encountered a large number of Christians who reference the KJV bible with the ideology that the KJV is the most superior bible translations of all. Mind you, I would agree that some translations are better than others. Personally the NASB is a far better translation than the ESV

In 1988, I didn’t confess to a priest.
But I got saved by opening my mouth to confess my belief that Jesus Christ is Lord, died for my sins. I spoke out loud, not in my heart.

It seems as though you might be mixing up the Church’s teachings on salvation, redemption etc and the Sacrament of Confession… as previously mentioned, we need to break things down a little in order to understand this in total. The role of a Catholics Sacramental life in context with salvation, redemption etc is complex doctrine and teaching.

Confession to a Priest is part of the life towards eternal salvation and sanctification in Christ. Catholic teaching on salvation is that we are saved and “born again” if you will through baptism and not by some one time verbal acknowledgement of Jesus being Lord and Saviour, died on the cross for my sins etc etc because as a Catholic a verbal acknowledgement is simply not good enough. As Church Militant pointed out, there’s a tone of scripture that validate Confession, Repentance, and Penitence and a lot of scripture that show how Penitence is simply acts that show that we are truly repentant for past sins. Even a Baptist will say true Repentance will bring fruits of righteousness and a changed life and that if we’re truly repentant there will be changed behavior. Of course Penitence is much more then just repentance. Penitence has been part of my Catholic life I’ve grown to appreciate because this has been a very transformative part in my faith journey.

 

[SjMelnychuk]

I suppose there are aspects of Confession and why Confession is necessary that need to be discussed but maybe there’s already a thread that discusses these things … I don’t know so if anybody knows please post a link. Or maybe the moderates can split the thread up again … I don’t know…

Necessity for Baptism:

This is in the context of Original Sin. ie Adam & Eve - Fall of Creation.
Baptism according to Catholic teaching is much much more than just a symbol.

However, once baptized there is venial and mortal sin. It is here we find the context for the Sacrament of Confession and Reconciliation. While Baptism initially saves we are called to work out our salvation in Christ. Phil 2:12

So there are Mortal Sins and Venial Sins. As Catholics we do not believe in the “once saved always saved” teaching that’s most popular among Calvinists. We believe it is possible to lose salvation. That is why Confession is especially important if there is Mortal Sin in the heart of the repentant. However, God in his infinite power and knowledge of the human heart, He’s just and merciful and knows the human heart. So Confession for some may not necessarily make the difference between whether or not a person had been able to see a Priest for confession but that all said, there is a requirement that where there is mortal sin the repentant has to make every effort to see a Priest and refrain from partaking of the blessed blood, body, and divinity of Jesus in the Eucharist. Then there is Venial Sin. I’ve been told there are ways to show my penance of Venial Sin if I can’t make it to Confession before Mass. However, if I need to confess Venial Sin I will take that as seriously as Mortal Sin.

However, because of my background I go to confession more frequently, or try to go to confession more frequently than the average Catholic. I’m part of an online Courage group. As part of the requirements Confession is every week or every other week, sometimes not many days pass before I’m at confession again, pending on why I’m there. Courage is a support group for members of the Catholic Church who struggle with same sex attraction. But that’s a topic for another thread. Just recently however, I didn’t go to confession for 2 months! I noticed I struggled far more when I didn’t go to Confession on a regular basis. There’s a supernatural grace imparted and received when we go to Confession that enables us to walk out our salvation and continue towards Christian maturity and holiness.

BUT ALL THAT SAID, … WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY THAT ALL WE HAVE TO DO FOR SALVATION IS SIMPLY SAY THE SINNERS PRAYER? WHERE IS THAT IN THE BIBLE??

I repented, asked God to change me and help me live for Him.

Did God accept my confession and repentant heart when I prayed to Him and asked His forgiveness?

Did He or didn’t He? Even though I went straight to Him?

As I said before, we are accountable to what truth has been revealed to us. If we come to see the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church and yet reject the Catholic Church we essentially reject the Body of Christ, to reject the Body of Christ is to reject Christ. To reject Mass can be a Mortal Sin.

This is the major reason why I converted to the Catholic Church. I no longer stood in opposition to what the Catholic Church teaches although, if it were not for my experience in the Protestant tradition I wouldn’t be a Christian today. So my time in the Protestant tradition was part of my Christian history that I look at as a blessing. I grew in my faith, I learned so much about the Christian life. Converting to the Catholic Church from the Protestant Tradition isn’t one of unbelief to belief or one of not being saved to being saved. Look at it this way, it’s like a treasure hunt. The more clues you discover the fuller the picture is revealed or perhaps it’s like reading a book and my Conversion to the Catholic Church is likened to a new chapter in my faith journey not the discarding of the book entirely … we’re reading the same book and the difference is that I turned the chapter and what I didn’t understand in the previous chapter I understand now. I’m not the one to say this person is saved and that person is not. I’m not God. We’re on the same journey but your eternal security in Christ is between you and God. I can share with you the reasons why I converted to the Catholic Church and why I go to Confession. What you do with this information is between you and God. I’m not your judge.

One thing I do know and am certain of is that God is merciful and just. So whatever God says to you and what happens to you on judgment day is between you and God. Catholics aren’t as quick to dismiss the Christian faith of our Protestant brothers and sisters in Christ. And that is what we are, Christian brothers and sisters in Christ.