SPLIT: Why did God choose the Salvation plan that He did?

[michaelmas]

I hope I am not diverging this thread but I have a similar question,

When Jesus died on the cross why in the heck didn’t he just hope down off the cross and save us all from todays messes we are in. Why go away when he had the undivided attention of the Jews.

 

[KP3243]

I hope I am not diverging this thread but I have a similar question,

When Jesus died on the cross why in the heck didn’t he just hope down off the cross and save us all from todays messes we are in. Why go away when he had the undivided attention of the Jews.

We aren’t in the messes we are in because of Jesus. He gave us a plan of action on how to live so we can live with him forever.

 

[SonCatcher]

I hope I am not diverging this thread but I have a similar question,

When Jesus died on the cross why in the heck didn’t he just hope down off the cross and save us all from todays messes we are in. Why go away when he had the undivided attention of the Jews.

it doesn’t seem similar at all to me. You’d be better off starting a new thread.

 

[RedDuke50]

I agree with other replies on how He didn’t want to because people wouldn’t listen to Him and such…

I hope I am not diverging this thread but I have a similar question,

When Jesus died on the cross why in the heck didn’t he just hope down off the cross and save us all from todays messes we are in. Why go away when he had the undivided attention of the Jews.

If He hadn’t died, He wouldn’t rise from the dead. Him dying and resurrecting had meaning for us. When He resurrected, it was like how we are going to be at the Second Coming of Christ and other things.
But the messes we are in these days are our fault, not God’s. They are caused by our sins. But I would also suggest you start a new thread so you can have people fully focus on your question and you’ll get better answers than mine.

 

[CaptFun]

I hope I am not diverging this thread but I have a similar question,

When Jesus died on the cross why in the heck didn’t he just hope down off the cross and save us all from todays messes we are in. Why go away when he had the undivided attention of the Jews.

That “Why” question is one that got Peter into a bit of trouble when he contested with the Lord’s telling the apostles about the crucifixion beforehand.

Mohamet, who may have been enroute to being a do-it-yourself Christian in an area where the Catholic Church did not hold much sway … couldn’t deal with the cross and preached that it didn’t happen.

But it was Christ’s destiny to die for our sins on that cross from the beginning.

Blessed Fulton Sheen does a masterful job of explaining that in his masterpiece “The Life of Christ.”

His kingdom is not of this world. And while He DID appear to St. Thomas with wounds exposed yet living … he scolded Thomas for his lack of faith.

The Jews (including the apostles) seemed to be waiting for just such a wonder-working but earthly King to subdue the Romans and be the new King David … but of the whole world. Just this last week the Gospel of the loaves and fishes ended with Jesus withdrawing from the crowds because He saw that they would make Him an Earthly King.

Fulton Sheen writes that this was Christ’s refusal to become a “Bread King” of a worldly social type. Jesus calls us to heaven, and to take up OUR crosses in the process and follow HIM. (OUR crosses are a bit easier than His was … and in fact He promises “My yoke is light and my burden is sweet” to the “heavily burdened” children of this world). :dancing:

The victory that Christ won was not a temporary political and social one for people who’d soon die - but a victory over sin and death itself – affording ETERNAL life in a neverending Kingdom of Love for those who would follow Him and keep His covenant.

For His own words on the subject, read John Chapter 16, where Jesus, at the Last Supper teaches about the necessity of the cross and His subsequent sending of the Holy Spirit to the apostles.

 

[michaelmas]

That “Why” question is one that got Peter into a bit of trouble when he contested with the Lord’s telling the apostles about the crucifixion beforehand.

Mohamet, who may have been enroute to being a do-it-yourself Christian in an area where the Catholic Church did not hold much sway … couldn’t deal with the cross and preached that it didn’t happen.

But it was Christ’s destiny to die for our sins on that cross from the beginning.

Blessed Fulton Sheen does a masterful job of explaining that in his masterpiece “The Life of Christ.”

His kingdom is not of this world. And while He DID appear to St. Thomas with wounds exposed yet living … he scolded Thomas for his lack of faith.

The Jews (including the apostles) seemed to be waiting for just such a wonder-working but earthly King to subdue the Romans and be the new King David … but of the whole world. Just this last week the Gospel of the loaves and fishes ended with Jesus withdrawing from the crowds because He saw that they would make Him an Earthly King.

Fulton Sheen writes that this was Christ’s refusal to become a “Bread King” of a worldly social type. Jesus calls us to heaven, and to take up OUR crosses in the process and follow HIM. (OUR crosses are a bit easier than His was … and in fact He promises “My yoke is light and my burden is sweet” to the “heavily burdened” children of this world). :dancing:

The victory that Christ won was not a temporary political and social one for people who’d soon die - but a victory over sin and death itself – affording ETERNAL life in a neverending Kingdom of Love for those who would follow Him and keep His covenant.

For His own words on the subject, read John Chapter 16, where Jesus, at the Last Supper teaches about the necessity of the cross and His subsequent sending of the Holy Spirit to the apostles.

What a wonderful way of explaining this. I have that book and I think I need to read it.

As for the comments about it not being God’s fault we are in the messes we are in today… I meant that if Jesus would of hopped down off that cross in front of all those eyewitnesses that saw him crucified wouldn’t the world be a better place today.

The above post is a homerun. Thankyou.

 

[CaptFun]

What a wonderful way of explaining this. I have that book and I think I need to read it.

As for the comments about it not being God’s fault we are in the messes we are in today… I meant that if Jesus would of hopped down off that cross in front of all those eyewitnesses that saw him crucified wouldn’t the world be a better place today.

The above post is a homerun. Thankyou.

Thanks for your kind words Michaelmas.

It’s funny. Jesus DIDN’T hop off that cross to be seen that day … but when He rose many witnesses did SEE Him a bit later. AND the world is a better place because of it.

Some of those who were taunting him to “come down off that cross and we’ll believe in you,” were among those who “knew not what they were doing.” Jesus was saving the world at that time … and took it right to the bell of the 15th round as it were.

THOSE folks undoubtedly HEARD of the Resurrection and had to deal with an empty tomb, befuddled guards, earthquakes shaking their temple and tearing the sanctuary curtain - and Christ’s simple followers preaching His words and working miracles in the middle of Jerusalem.

I DO know what you mean though. We humans might like to have written an alternative ending to that bloody, shameful cross of seeming defeat … and have had ONE last miracle and perhaps an early Ascension that DAY! Trumpets blowing maybe … Angels ringin’ bells from the clouds … maybe Peter knocking Caiaphas’ Mitre off his head in front of everyone.

He left us with some practical work to do in the meantime though. Basically Love God (with our whole heart, soul and mind) and our neighbors as ourselves.

I certainly won’t criticize you for wondering about one of the most profound mysteries in the world … one so profound that Jesus Himself asked the Father " … if it be possible, let this cup pass from me … nevertheless let thy will, not mine be done." < As I type this now it occurs to me that Jesus, as the Son of Man, bore that cross of obedience, suffering and atonement to cancel out the debt incurred by the first man’s disobedience, indulgence and defiance.

 

[jochoa]

I hope I am not diverging this thread but I have a similar question,

When Jesus died on the cross why in the heck didn’t he just hope down off the cross and save us all from todays messes we are in. Why go away when he had the undivided attention of the Jews.

Excellent questions, my friend! Please consider the following concepts:

Because had He hopped down off the cross, it would have derailed the purpose of creation, and prolonged the messes we are in today.

Because in going away discretely, He grants us the freedom to choose to follow Him into the ever-lasting kingdom of limitless happiness with unbreakable peace, through the power of unconditional patience and kindness, even in the face of unjust impatience and meanness.

 

[animalis]

Because had He hopped down off the cross, it would have derailed the purpose of creation,

There are two terms that did come to mind, namely, form and being. When Jesus took on a human nature the form of which could be sensed like our forms. We all age and corruption take place in all form in this temporal world. If God was truly human his form had to have to take the course that humans take.

As for our problems today, our being, expressed in the virtues depends on God to be like him for that is the goal of the virtuous life. God as a being is accessable not by form but by being. Therefore, virtue has to be expressed all in His terms. And happiness is the result. As Jesus says, “Seek ye therefore first the kingdom of God, and his justice, and all these things shall be added unto you.” (Mt 6:33) This seeking is not by the sense of forms but by being.