Splitting the Roman Catholic Church

[peary2]

Liberal Catholics enjoy the moan and grown routine but, through the mercy of God, they remain in the Church. Splitting off isn’t going to solve any problems or issues. And one never knows when the grace of God will touch their hearts resulting in an ‘uh-huh’ moment. It’s like in a family where you might have really rotten spoiled kids who constantly gripe with not only their parents but their siblings as well; yet, they, for the most part, refuse to leave the family. Usually, it’s one or both parents who are the enablers to make sure they stay within the fold and tolerate their eccentricities. In much the same way, the Church does the same, but since their eternal salvation is at stake, the Church can be tolerant. It is, after all, in the business of saving souls, not brushing them off as if they are worth nothing. The gripers can always go somewhere else if they wish, but that would be to their own detriment - and their own choice.

 

[Peter_J]

Could it be the liberal Catholic party versus the conservative Catholic party?

Perhaps. Just don’t say that it’s a two-party system. :tsktsk:

 

[Matariel]

Perhaps. Just don’t say that it’s a two-party system. :tsktsk:

I think it’d be more proper to speak of an “orthodox Catholic branch” and an “unorthodox/cultural/nominal Catholic branch” which are in a state of heresy and sin.

The Catholic Church does not have parties.

 

[elts1956]

I think it’d be more proper to speak of an “orthodox Catholic branch” and an “unorthodox/cultural/nominal Catholic branch” which are in a state of heresy and sin.

The Catholic Church does not have parties.

Isn’t there a group known as the “Reformed Catholic Church”? Or am I thinking of the one that has been in existence for many decades???

 

[elts1956]

I think it’d be more proper to speak of an “orthodox Catholic branch” and an “unorthodox/cultural/nominal Catholic branch” which are in a state of heresy and sin.

The Catholic Church does not have parties.

Liberal Catholics enjoy the moan and grown routine but, through the mercy of God, they remain in the Church. Splitting off isn’t going to solve any problems or issues. And one never knows when the grace of God will touch their hearts resulting in an ‘uh-huh’ moment. It’s like in a family where you might have really rotten spoiled kids who constantly gripe with not only their parents but their siblings as well; yet, they, for the most part, refuse to leave the family. Usually, it’s one or both parents who are the enablers to make sure they stay within the fold and tolerate their eccentricities. In much the same way, the Church does the same, but since their eternal salvation is at stake, the Church can be tolerant. It is, after all, in the business of saving souls, not brushing them off as if they are worth nothing. The gripers can always go somewhere else if they wish, but that would be to their own detriment - and their own choice.

The problem is that without leadership from the “leaders” ie. Bishops/Archb/Cardinals of the Church, the wheat will never be separated from the chaff. Until these fellows “get back to basics” and provide correct catechesis and see it is carried out in their parishes, the chaff, with their fence sitting and political correctness, will continue to influence and overwhem the wheat. I’m not proposing that anyone be forced to leave the Church, however little they are in tune with its teachings, however, I am saying some deep cleaning, in regard to instructions and beliefs, of the Church here in the US needs to be done.

 

[elgar]

The problem is that without leadership from the “leaders” ie. Bishops/Archb/Cardinals of the Church, the wheat will never be separated from the chaff. Until these fellows “get back to basics” and provide correct catechesis and see it is carried out in their parishes, the chaff, with their fence sitting and political correctness, will continue to influence and overwhem the wheat. I’m not proposing that anyone be forced to leave the Church, however little they are in tune with its teachings, however, I am saying some deep cleaning, in regard to instructions and beliefs, of the Church here in the US needs to be done.

But don’t you know we live in a relativistic society with no moral absolutes? And of course we don’t want to offend anyone and hurt their feelings.

Those churchmen in authority are really jeporadizing the souls of the pick and choose catholics and their own also by purposely NOT correcting those who preach and practice heresy. I’m talking bishops, priests and laity. There is nothing complicated here. The few orthodox bishops who have gone out on a limb may not be liked by a majority of their colleagues and laity at large, but I have seen much support and appreciation expressed by the faithful in their respective dioceses.

 

[Matariel]

But don’t you know we live in a relativistic society with no moral absolutes? And of course we don’t want to offend anyone and hurt their feelings.

Those churchmen in authority are really jeporadizing the souls of the pick and choose catholics and their own also by purposely NOT correcting those who preach and practice heresy. I’m talking bishops, priests and laity. There is nothing complicated here. The few orthodox bishops who have gone out on a limb may not be liked by a majority of their colleagues and laity at large, but I have seen much support and appreciation expressed by the faithful in their respective dioceses.

This is true. Heresy and nominalism, which currently plague a part of the North American branch of the Catholic Church, must be done away with in order to save souls and repair the Body of Christ (which is the Catholic Church).

 

[StrawberryJam]

This is true. Heresy and nominalism, which currently plague a part of the North American branch of the Catholic Church, must be done away with in order to save souls and repair the Body of Christ (which is the Catholic Church).

What kind of heresies are going on now?

 

[Peter_J]

But don’t you know we live in a relativistic society with no moral absolutes? And of course we don’t want to offend anyone and hurt their feelings.

Those churchmen in authority are really jeporadizing the souls of the pick and choose catholics and their own also by purposely NOT correcting those who preach and practice heresy. I’m talking bishops, priests and laity. There is nothing complicated here. The few orthodox bishops who have gone out on a limb may not be liked by a majority of their colleagues and laity at large, but I have seen much support and appreciation expressed by the faithful in their respective dioceses.

But wouldn’t it be correct to say that you yourself believe some things that we RCs regard as heresy? (Correct me, of course, if I’m wrong. I’m just basing this on the fact that you describe yourself as Protestant.)

 

[Hesychios]

The Catholic Church does not have parties.

All the more to say there are no branches either.

I always think of them as factions…

 

[elgar]

But wouldn’t it be correct to say that you yourself believe some things that we RCs regard as heresy? (Correct me, of course, if I’m wrong. I’m just basing this on the fact that you describe yourself as Protestant.)

Even though I classify myself a a protestant, I was baptized and confirmed in the RC Church. You might want to say I’m a lapsed Roman Catholic but still hold dear to me true Catholic Orthodoxy. It’s just very hard to come by around here where I live.

I have no problems with most of the teachings of the RC Church. I must admit the two that trouble me most are easy annulments and indulgences, but I could overlook these tomorrow if I witnessed Catholics being Catholics and embracing the whole package instead of the CINOS who are quite lacking in humility. Maybe I’m "broad brushing " here, but I don’t see a measurable difference between Cafeteria Catholicism and Liberal Protestantsm at all.

 

[Peter_J]

Even though I classify myself a a protestant, I was baptized and confirmed in the RC Church. You might want to say I’m a lapsed Roman Catholic but still hold dear to me true Catholic Orthodoxy. It’s just very hard to come by around here where I live.

OIC. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Matariel]

What kind of heresies are going on now?

One modernist heresy is the distortion of the “primacy of conscience” in such a way as to ignore 2,000 years of Church teaching. Another is “café Catholicism” in which one picks and chooses various beliefs of the Church and disregards others, all while still claiming to be orthodox Catholics. This, I think, is an imitation of what they see in Protestantism (general doctrinal confusion and divisions and schism) and some even look at the Catholic Church as “just another church” when in fact the Church is the original, 2,000-year old Church founded by Christ, and of both divine and apostolic origin.

These are a few examples. Fortunately, orthodoxy seems to be winning, and the Church in North America, dispite the various Protestant sects’ influences, is undergoing a well-needed “spring cleaning”, partially initiated by our holy Father, Pope benedict XVI, 290-something successor of St. Peter, the leader of the early Catholic Church, entrusted to him by Christ.

 

[elts1956]

One modernist heresy is the distortion of the “primacy of conscience” in such a way as to ignore 2,000 years of Church teaching. Another is “café Catholicism” in which one picks and chooses various beliefs of the Church and disregards others, all while still claiming to be orthodox Catholics. This, I think, is an imitation of what they see in Protestantism (general doctrinal confusion and divisions and schism) and some even look at the Catholic Church as “just another church” when in fact the Church is the original, 2,000-year old Church founded by Christ, and of both divine and apostolic origin.

These are a few examples. Fortunately, orthodoxy seems to be winning, and the Church in North America, dispite the various Protestant sects’ influences, is undergoing a well-needed “spring cleaning”, partially initiated by our holy Father, Pope benedict XVI, 290-something successor of St. Peter, the leader of the early Catholic Church, entrusted to him by Christ.

Would you explain your take on the distortion that has taken place regarding primacy of conscience? I can’t seem to be able to give a solid explanation of what has taken place. catholics,(small c) mainly cafeteria ones use their primacy of conscience as their having an unending freedom of choice as long as “their” conscience is clear. The don’t seem to realize they are seeing a distorted view of the truth. They seem unable to internalize the core teachings of the Catholic Church. They mouth the truths, then turn them to fit their own beliefs, purposes and desires. I simply do not know how to help them become aware of their ignorance.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

I think it’d be more proper to speak of an “orthodox Catholic branch” and an “unorthodox/cultural/nominal Catholic branch” which are in a state of heresy and sin.

The Catholic Church does not have parties.

Materiel:

I think the term you are grasping for is Heterodox, or as I call them pseudo-Catholics.

 

[slyboots]

I have heard nothing about a hue and cry for the Catholic Church to be split. I hear ppl who decry the magisteriums decisions when they do not suit them. But to deny the decisions of the Pope and the magisteriums makes you no longer a follower of the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings. So it follows. Should you adhere to and promuligate those teachings found to be out of step with Catholic thought, then you most probably are not a practicing Catholic. Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, John Kerry and others…pro-abortion ppl who were previously Catholic…women and the men who have decided women can be “priestesses”…there are other disputes easy enough to fall into which I myself have wrestled and found the magisterium knows best in the matters.
TLM and traditionalists please note, I do not mean you.

 

[Bill_Pick]

May I ask a question How do people know how any one votes, I have been voting for years and I have not said to any one how I vote and yes I,m a RC, this is not for debate just asking.
And I have ask a other Cathloic how they voted and I do not get a answer,in fact I been dating a girl for about 5 years who is also a RC and I still can not tell you who she voted for,maybe you are just dumb. and I have voted in three states…

 

[jean29]

Recently, say over the past few weeks, a couple of Roman Catholics have expressed the opinion that the American church will split. Clearly the majority of RC’s, if one believes polling, both by independents and the UCCB itself, most Catholics for instance voted for Obama, and support various liberal issues. They practice birth control at a very high rate, and so forth.

Additionally, a larger number of RC’s on this forum have publically said that they wished that Catholics who don’t agree with their views of dogma (which they of course claim is the Church’s) would leave the church, even if it meant a majority of the American church left, leaving a very small RCC in America.

My question is how could this happen?

It seems to me that generally speaking when a minority is dissatisfied with the majority and the manner in which they operate, it is the minority which leaves. It certainly can’t force out the majority I wouldn’t think.

When so many here think that most of their brethren are “poorly” catecized, have poor priests who come from liberal seminaries and Cathollc colleges and universities, where most religious women are thought poorly of as being “liberal” etc. I can’t figure out how the minority can leave the church either.

Clearly the ultra conservatives here wish to remain aligned with Rome, and they would never consider any alternative that I can think of. Yet how can they remove the majority from the Church?

Or do most Catholics conservative or otherwise disagree that the liberals should get out of town?

I’m just wondering what Catholics think on this issue, or if they think about it at all.

As an Episcopalian, we have such a strange set up, that minorities that are unhappy with the majority of their congregation, have alternatives that allow them to remain in the some sense Episcopalian or Anglican. I don’t see this alternative for the RCC.

Spirit Meadow,
This is not a split , but Catholic christians not practicing their faith.
btw, where did the ‘split group’ go? Do they have a priest? Or are they leaving the church?
I can’t understand why a chriistian from any denomination would vote for a man who is not a christian. this is Obama.
He was a member of Jeremiah Wrights church, ‘Liberation Theology’ for twenty years.
Obama is okay with killing babies in the womb, homosexuality, gay marriage? The Lord condenms these sins in His word. 1Cor.6:9. Ps.139 Read all about it.
I would not support a church that promotes a sinful lifestyle. We go to church to follow Jesus Christ. Is Jesus walking with you? Or are you walking with the Episcopalians?

God bless,
jean

 

[mark_a]

Additionally, a larger number of RC’s on this forum have publically said that they wished that Catholics who don’t agree with their views of dogma (which they of course claim is the Church’s) would leave the church, even if it meant a majority of the American church left, leaving a very small RCC in America.

My question is how could this happen?

You gotta be yanking my chain!!

As an Episcopalian, we have such a strange set up, that minorities that are unhappy with the majority of their congregation, have alternatives that allow them to remain in the some sense Episcopalian or Anglican.

And certain numbers of these Episcopalian and Anglicans consider themselves in some sense Catholic.

I don’t see this alternative for the RCC.

It’s easy to get emotional and write these troublemaker Catholics off. But it’s not the pastoral thing to do. The parable of the prodigal son comes to mind.

 

[allhers]

May I ask a question How do people know how any one votes, I have been voting for years and I have not said to any one how I vote and yes I,m a RC, this is not for debate just asking.
And I have ask a other Cathloic how they voted and I do not get a answer,in fact I been dating a girl for about 5 years who is also a RC and I still can not tell you who she voted for,maybe you are just dumb. and I have voted in three states…

I think this is an excellent question too, no one that I’ve ever seen, has linked to where they believe they saw this. I too have been voting for years, and have also lived in more than one State in my lifetime and no one at any of the polling stations has ever asked me if I were a Catholic or not. I’d be proud to state that I am indeed but it really isn’t any of their business.

I’ve also seen and heard enough polls in my life to know that sometimes they are set up in a certain way to make the numbers fit with their agenda.

(Plus as has been noted earlier by other posters, some people, who are not praticing Catholics or have never praticed their Catholic faith or who even go to some other denominations or to no denomination at all, will, when asked, claim to be Catholic.)

As to the OP’s original question, we’re already split all over the place and still are going strong now for over 2000 years, that alone shows one that we’re not just some mere man made institution but indeed we are The Church that Jesus founded.