Sponsor for Baptism and Canon Law

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kleary

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I am in a bind here.

My brother, while waiting for his girlfriend’s annulment married her via justice of the peace due to her being pregnant and in need of health insurance benefits due to the upcoming birth.

This was 7 years ago and he still hasn’t had the marriage sacramentalized. He does however attend Mass every Sunday at the local parish and brings his daughter there with him for Sunday School.

Two years ago he was asked to be a sponsor for my niece’s baptism by my other brother. He then obtained a “requirement paper” from the parish office that he signed stating he is a Catholic in good standing and he was allowed to bring that to the parish where she was baptized.

Again, I have a nephew who is to be baptized in October. Again my brother is asked to be sponsor.

My family has told me to keep my mouth shut this time, it is none of my business, I will only cause dissention and aggravation if I try to stop him from being sponsor.

What can I do?

Ken
 
It sounds like this is the perfect opportunity to get your brother to work on the regularization of his marriage. I would also not listen to your family as they are in the wrong here and if he is not a “catholic in good standing” then he would defrauding the Church which would add a sin to him. So, the concern for his immortal soul should be far more important than keeping the peace.
 
kleary said:
I am in a bind here.

My brother, while waiting for his girlfriend’s annulment married her via justice of the peace due to her being pregnant and in need of health insurance benefits due to the upcoming birth.

This was 7 years ago and he still hasn’t had the marriage sacramentalized. He does however attend Mass every Sunday at the local parish and brings his daughter there with him for Sunday School.

Two years ago he was asked to be a sponsor for my niece’s baptism by my other brother. He then obtained a “requirement paper” from the parish office that he signed stating he is a Catholic in good standing and he was allowed to bring that to the parish where she was baptized.

Again, I have a nephew who is to be baptized in October. Again my brother is asked to be sponsor.

My family has told me to keep my mouth shut this time, it is none of my business, I will only cause dissention and aggravation if I try to stop him from being sponsor.

What can I do?

Ken
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Him being an unqualified Sponsor does not invalidate the Baptism. He however is presenting a false document since he is not a Catholic in good standing in the Marriage situation you describe. He of course cannot receive Holy Communion in this situation, so how does his pastor reconcile this?
 
My family has told me to keep my mouth shut this time, it is none of my business, I will only cause dissention and aggravation if I try to stop him from being sponsor.

Believe me, I do understand the family dynamics involved and it will take courage for you to address this.

A couple of thoughts :

I don’t think it is your job to stop your brother from being a godparent.

I think your conscience is calling for you to witness to your brother and remind him that his civil marriage remains unreconciled with the Church, and once you have witnessed to your brother in love regarding his marriage, your obligation will be met regardless of his decision to continue or withdraw as godparent.

Should you be unable to witness directly to your brother, perhaps you could approach your pastor with this information and ask him to address the matter.

My prayers are with you.
 
Well today I got a telephone call from the pastor of my brother’s parish.

I was told he is “working on convalidation” and is eligible in his opinion to be a sponsor for Baptism.

Is this true? Is this allowed?

Ken
 
kleary said:
Well today I got a telephone call from the pastor of my brother’s parish.

I was told he is “working on convalidation” and is eligible in his opinion to be a sponsor for Baptism.

Is this true? Is this allowed?

Ken
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If this is true then it sounds like he is doing the right thing. I would trust the judgment of the pastor on this.
 
Well now that the Chancery office has been notified and both pastors know my brother’s situation he received a call today from his pastor who sounded “worried”. Of course the does not want the Wanderer or other Catholic publications to know I guess that he is approving him in violation of Canon Law.

There seems to be much controversy today over this issue- especially when non-Catholics are being allowed to be sponsors in many areas of the country.

I also was threatened this morning by my brother and his wife to be arrested for criminal harrasment for what I have done here. May God be praised.

Ken
 
Well I’d say that the steps he has taken thus far are steps in the right direction. It sounds like he has a desire to raise a Catholic household, so I wouldn’t get my feathers in a bunch about the whole issue.

I think stirring the pot on this one is going to cause more problems than anything. I would trust in the judgement of the pastor.
 
kleary said:
Well today I got a telephone call from the pastor of my brother’s parish.

I was told he is “working on convalidation” and is eligible in his opinion to be a sponsor for Baptism.

Is this true? Is this allowed?

Ken
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Well that is hard to justify, maybe if the convalidation is expected to be completed before the Baptism. It does not say a person who may someday be in good standing with the Church. It says a person who is a practicing (He is not receiving Holy Communion if his convalidation is still being worked on) Catholic and in good standing with the Catholic Church. (now, today, at least before the day of the Baptism)
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
Well that is hard to justify, maybe if the convalidation is expected to be completed before the Baptism. It does not say a person who may someday be in good standing with the Church. It says a person who is a practicing (He is not receiving Holy Communion if his convalidation is still being worked on) Catholic and in good standing with the Catholic Church. (now, today, at least before the day of the Baptism)
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Exactly. This same priest , his pastor is the one who told him to go ahead and get married civilly while he was waiting for her annulment and then come back later to get the marriage blessed. (She needed medical benefits due to her being pregnant). From what I have learned this sort of thing is a common policy of parishes here in my area. They told me yesterday, “this is the real world, NOT CATHOLIC ANSWERS!”

Ken
 
kleary said:
Exactly. This same priest , his pastor is the one who told him to go ahead and get married civilly while he was waiting for her annulment and then come back later to get the marriage blessed. (She needed medical benefits due to her being pregnant). From what I have learned this sort of thing is a common policy of parishes here in my area. They told me yesterday, “this is the real world, NOT CATHOLIC ANSWERS!”

Ken
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If your Bishop goes along with this practice. There is not much you will be able to do.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
If your Bishop goes along with this practice. There is not much you will be able to do.
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While it’s true that most bishops are eminently more reliable than priests (whom, if I don’t know them VERY well, I sadly don’t trust any farther than I can kick them when it comes to faithfully presenting discipline), it’s not as if that’s the absolute last step that could be taken (bishops answer to someone, too). The bishop is, however, the last step that could expect to be consulted in time for the baptism.

Whatever one does, though, the Catholic Church is not in good enough shape that one can simply take a pastor’s word for it. Some are unintentionally ignorant, some don’t care to remedy their ignorance, and others are downright deceptive. If you suspect a pastor is mistaken, look into the matter for yourself and take it to the next level if need be (which the OP has done).
 
kleary said:
Exactly. This same priest , his pastor is the one who told him to go ahead and get married civilly while he was waiting for her annulment and then come back later to get the marriage blessed. (She needed medical benefits due to her being pregnant). From what I have learned this sort of thing is a common policy of parishes here in my area. They told me yesterday, “this is the real world, NOT CATHOLIC ANSWERS!”

Ken
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If I had known this then my previous advice would have been very different. It seems that you are doing things for the greater good. I hope it turns out well.
 
Well this issue has come to an end.

The pastor of my brother’s parish (whom my pastor calls an arch liberal) and the pastor of my mother’s (parish where the baby is to be baptised) and the Chancery Office were all in a three way conversation and came to a unanimous decision to allow my brother to be the sponsor.

The reason given was that he is in the process of convalidation of his marriage.

On a side note my brother’s wife (a vehemently Anti-Catholic woman) made note to all of us that if the Diocese overrules my brother’s pastor that she would pull her daughter out of CCD class and forbid her from making her first penance and first holy communion.

So the Church has spoken, calling this a minor technicality that can be overruled in this case since they are in the process.

Maybe this was a good thing because this is the first time I have heard of them in the process of convalidation.

Ken
 
kleary said:
Well this issue has come to an end.

The pastor of my brother’s parish (whom my pastor calls an arch liberal) and the pastor of my mother’s (parish where the baby is to be baptised) and the Chancery Office were all in a three way conversation and came to a unanimous decision to allow my brother to be the sponsor.

The reason given was that he is in the process of convalidation of his marriage.

On a side note my brother’s wife (a vehemently Anti-Catholic woman) made note to all of us that if the Diocese overrules my brother’s pastor that she would pull her daughter out of CCD class and forbid her from making her first penance and first holy communion.

So the Church has spoken, calling this a minor technicality that can be overruled in this case since they are in the process.

Maybe this was a good thing because this is the first time I have heard of them in the process of convalidation.

Ken
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I think there is a significant different between “needing to” or “thinking about” Convalidation and actually taking concrete steps to resolve the marriage issue. As you say maybe this has required him to take those steps. The Church however still does not allow him to receive the Sacraments until the process is completed.

I find it interesting that his wife would punish the child because she was made at the diocese? That make no sense at all.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
I think there is a significant different between “needing to” or “thinking about” Convalidation and actually taking concrete steps to resolve the marriage issue. As you say maybe this has required him to take those steps. The Church however still does not allow him to receive the Sacraments until the process is completed.

I find it interesting that his wife would punish the child because she was made at the diocese? That make no sense at all.
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The reason she gives is that she believes my brother’s pastor is correct not to forbid him to be a sponsor and the Diocese would be wrong (even though official Church law states it would be wrong). Remember, she is not a Catholic, not baptized either. She believes that if any Church should refuse such then the whatever Church is wrong to do it…she uses the liberal excuse “judge not lest ye be judged” thing to where she also agrees that the Church shouldn’t teach homosexuality is wrong, abortion being wrong and most especially artificial contraception. So denying her daughter the Eucharist means nothing to her as she has no faith to begin with.

Also, in the Ask an Apologist forum Michelle Arnold answers differently, stating that as long as they live as “brother and sister” then he can receive the Sacraments.

Ken
 
kleary said:
The reason she gives is that she believes my brother’s pastor is correct not to forbid him to be a sponsor and the Diocese would be wrong (even though official Church law states it would be wrong). Remember, she is not a Catholic, not baptized either. She believes that if any Church should refuse such then the whatever Church is wrong to do it…she uses the liberal excuse “judge not lest ye be judged” thing to where she also agrees that the Church shouldn’t teach homosexuality is wrong, abortion being wrong and most especially artificial contraception. So denying her daughter the Eucharist means nothing to her as she has no faith to begin with.

Also, in the Ask an Apologist forum Michelle Arnold answers differently, stating that as long as they live as “brother and sister” then he can receive the Sacraments.

Ken
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Well that is correct. My answer is based on what was posted and nothing posted said that they were living as brother and sister.
 
I thought I would revisit this thread to give an update concerning the pastor of my brother’s parish who approved him as sponsor for baptism here.

It seems he also approved him for much more than that. My stepfather died on Feb. 8. My brother, whom this thread is concerning received Holy Communion at the funeral.

When I saw that happen I started to shake and become very upset. I know my brother is living in sin with his “wife” yet he is receiving Holy Communion. However I suspected it was not his fault entirely.

I called his pastor today and he explained to me that he is also allowed to receive Holy Communion because he “is in the process of convalidation”.

To this date, no convalidation has taken place.

Ken
 
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