Spontaneous EMHC?

[EvelynEVF]

Today at daily Mass, the deacon was not present. No one came forward between the peace and the Agnus Dei, to help distribute. When it was time, he stepped down with the ciborium. After the first communicant received, she walked up to the altar, got the chalice, and took the usual place for an EMHC.

Is that an acceptable variant? Is it better than the Sunday usual procedure?

 

[zab]

The EMHC are supposed to receive the ciborium or the chalice from the priest (or deacon). They are not supposed to take anything from the altar on their own.

 

[Phemie]

It seems a little odd unless Fr. told her to do so. He does have the option of appointing an EMHC for just one Mass.

 

[DebChris]

It is not the usual procedure.
I wonder if the priest asked her to accept the role after receiving communion.
Generally speaking, an EMHC receives specialized training. When I first became an EMHC, my name was sent to the bishop who wanted to know who was handling the hosts. Before distributing the hosts or offering the cup, the EMHC receives from the hand of the celebrant.
Again, the only reason I can see for the variant is the priest asking her to accept the role when no trained person stepped forward at the proper time.

 

[palmas85]

Today at daily Mass, the deacon was not present. No one came forward between the peace and the Agnus Dei, to help distribute. When it was time, he stepped down with the ciborium. After the first communicant received, she walked up to the altar, got the chalice, and took the usual place for an EMHC.

Is that an acceptable variant? Is it better than the Sunday usual procedure?

Hey this one has possibilities.:clapping: : As everyone comes up, whoever wants to strolls on into the Sanctuary, grabs the Chalice or Ciborum and starts to distribute.
This is great. Not only will it do away with the thundering herds of Extraordinary Ministers that fill most Sanctuaries during even lesser attended Masses, but it will allow all laymen present to experience the joy at least for a little while that they are the same as Priests. They too can bestow blessings and enjoy the favored place of the Priest. It is a win win situation as far as I see it:thumbsup:

But why stop there???

The possibilities are endless. Imagine, the first to receive absolution during reconciliation strolls over to an empty confessional. some churches still have them right?, and hears a few confessions:thumbsup: .and gives absolution:clapping:

I mean after all these are modern times and we have to be on the cutting edge of innovation don’t we??

 

[zab]

Hey this one has possibilities.:clapping: : As everyone comes up, whoever wants to strolls on into the Sanctuary, grabs the Chalice or Ciborum and starts to distribute.
This is great. Not only will it do away with the thundering herds of Extraordinary Ministers that fill most Sanctuaries during even lesser attended Masses, but it will allow all laymen present to experience the joy at least for a little while that they are the same as Priests. They too can bestow blessings and enjoy the favored place of the Priest. It is a win win situation as far as I see it:thumbsup:

But why stop there???

The possibilities are endless. Imagine, the first to receive absolution during reconciliation strolls over to an empty confessional. some churches still have them right?, and hears a few confessions:thumbsup: .and gives absolution:clapping:

I mean after all these are modern times and we have to be on the cutting edge of innovation don’t we??

This is like a rumor that is snowballing. The OP did not say that the woman who walked up to get the chalice was not an EMHC.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Today at daily Mass, the deacon was not present. No one came forward between the peace and the Agnus Dei, to help distribute. When it was time, he stepped down with the ciborium. After the first communicant received, she walked up to the altar, got the chalice, and took the usual place for an EMHC.

Is that an acceptable variant? Is it better than the Sunday usual procedure?

No one but the celebrant and assistig deacon/priest is to take or place anything on the altar during Mass. EMHC’s must be handed the ciborium or chalice by the priest celebrant.

There have been instances where no one was available to assist at a daily Mass and the priest asked if there was an EMHC present even though not a member of that specific parish when no one else steped forward I did, and everything went just fine.

 

[DebChris]

I agree with Bro Rich that the priest should have physically handed the chalice to the person who accepted the role of EMHC.
That said, we still need to take into consideration that the Wine has been consecrated. It still needs to be consumed in its entirety either by the priest or members of the congregation.

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

No one but the celebrant and assistig deacon/priest is to take or place anything on the altar during Mass. EMHC’s must be handed the ciborium or chalice by the priest celebrant.

There have been instances where no one was available to assist at a daily Mass and the priest asked if there was an EMHC present even though not a member of that specific parish when no one else steped forward I did, and everything went just fine.

Really? This is news to me. When I serve Mass, the servers will place the bread and wine on the altar. In addition to the white cloth (and I’m forgetting the name… corporal?). And the missal/sacramentary/big book.

And chalices for EMHCs…

 

[Sir_Knight]

I was about to say the same thing.

 

[zab]

I agree with Bro Rich that the priest should have physically handed the chalice to the person who accepted the role of EMHC.
That said, we still need to take into consideration that the Wine has been consecrated. It still needs to be consumed in its entirety either by the priest or members of the congregation.

I am wondering how many parishes have Communion under both species for daily Mass. Our parish does not.

But you do raise an important point to consider particularly if a large amount of the Precious Blood has been consecrated. There have been a few rare occassions when our elderly priest, who assists once a month at the weekend Masses, went to his position leaving the EMHC empty handed. He just forgot that he was supposed to give the Hosts and Precious Blood to the EMHC. Someone stepped up, in some cases-the MC-to assist in giving each EMHC a ciborium or cup.

 

[benedictgal]

To my knowledge, our Cathedral and maybe two other parishes offer both species for daily Mass. The Cathedral offers the Precious Blood via the chalice while the others through intinction.

What the OP described is not proper, not at all. One would speculate that if the celebrant didn’t anticipate assistance, he may not have consecrated as much as he would normally have used. In other words, the person shouldn’t have “permitted” herself to do what she did.

Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say on the issue:

Finally, in special cases of an unforeseen nature, permission can be given for a single occasion by the Priest who presides at the celebration of the Eucharist.[257]

However, this, as noted in the OP, did not happen. Furthermore, the document that the Congregation for the Clergy issued in 1997, further expounds the matter:

This function is supplementary and extraordinary (101) and must be exercised in accordance with the norm of law. It is thus useful for the diocesan bishop to issue particular norms concerning extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion which, in complete harmony with the universal law of the Church, should regulate the exercise of this function in his diocese. Such norms should provide, amongst other things, for matters such as the instruction in eucharistic doctrine of those chosen to be extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion, the meaning of the service they provide, the rubrics to be observed, the reverence to be shown for such an august Sacrament and instruction concerning the discipline on admission to Holy Communion.

As others have indicated, an EMHC must receive the vessels for the distribution of Holy Communion, irregardless of the species, from the priest. They do not take the vessels of their own accord, but, must be given them.

As indicated in the GIRM:

1. The priest may be assisted in the distribution of Communion by other priests who happen to be present. If such priests are not present and there is a very large number of communicants, the priest may call upon extraordinary ministers to assist him, e.g., duly instituted acolytes or even other faithful who have been deputed for this purpose.97 In case of necessity, the priest may depute suitable faithful for this single occasion.98

These ministers should not approach the altar before the priest has received Communion, and they are always to receive from the hands of the priest celebrant the vessel containing either species of the Most Holy Eucharist for distribution to the faithful.

These are the citations. I hope that they can be of some help.

 

[DebChris]

I am wondering how many parishes have Communion under both species for daily Mass. Our parish does not.

But you do raise an important point to consider particularly if a large amount of the Precious Blood has been consecrated. There have been a few rare occassions when our elderly priest, who assists once a month at the weekend Masses, went to his position leaving the EMHC empty handed. He just forgot that he was supposed to give the Hosts and Precious Blood to the EMHC. Someone stepped up, in some cases-the MC-to assist in giving each EMHC a ciborium or cup.

Most of the parishes in the city where I live do provide Communion under both species for daily Mass as well as for Sunday Masses. I do know this is not the case in every diocese.
I have been to many daily Masses where only the Host was offered.
After Sunday Mass, the EMHC who helped distribute the Hosts returns the ciborium to the altar. The chalices are returned to a small side table where they are covered (after any remaining consecrated Wine has been consumed). The priest accepts the ciborium and combines any leftover hosts with those left in the ciborium he used and places them in the tabernacle.

You do bring up something else that I was already thinking about. If the priest is already in position to distribute Communion, how awkward would it be to return to the altar in order to physically hand the chalice to the person acting as EMHC?

 

[Lujack]

I don’t know if this is the sort of thing worth breaking out the canon lawbooks for. It seems like the priest had a mental blank and didn’t realize he’d need some help until the last second. He probably knew it was regular the moment it happened, but didn’t see a way around it.

 

[palmas85]

This is like a rumor that is snowballing. The OP did not say that the woman who walked up to get the chalice was not an EMHC.

Never said she was either. And in any event, the EMHC is not under any circumstances, supposed to stroll on up to the Altar and grab anything. If she was an EMHC I would certainly hope that she knows that. And if she doesn’t I really hope that the Priest does

 

[zab]

Today at daily Mass, the deacon was not present. No one came forward between the peace and the Agnus Dei, to help distribute. When it was time, he stepped down with the ciborium. After the first communicant received, she walked up to the altar, got the chalice, and took the usual place for an EMHC.

Here is what Redemptionis Sacramentum has to say on the issue:

Quote:
Finally, in special cases of an unforeseen nature, permission can be given for a single occasion by the Priest who presides at the celebration of the Eucharist.[257]

I’m not so sure. The priest could have said something to her and not everyone else heard.

 

[ASD]

I don’t know if this is the sort of thing worth breaking out the canon lawbooks for. …

What seems strange to me is the attempt to discuss this in terms of rules at all. I think we’re kidding ourselves.

The fact that “extraordinary” ministers always distribute communion is flagrant disregard for rules, right?

For that matter, where does the whole EMHC thing come from? I’m not 100% sure, but isn’t it an indult? In fact, like communion in the hand, something finally codified because so many people ignored or defied existing rules?

I know some good Catholics accept this sort of thing with perfect equanimity. However, many of us are dismayed by it.

If you feel the way I do, consider the following small gesture of defiance: (1) Quietly, unobtrusively move from the line receiving from EMHC into the line receiving from ordained Priest; & (2) receive on your tongue.

Hey, we have rights, too.

ASD​

Dude! Where’s my Church?

 

[FrDavid96]

What seems strange to me is the attempt to discuss this in terms of rules at all. I think we’re kidding ourselves.

The fact that “extraordinary” ministers always distribute communion is flagrant disregard for rules, right?

For that matter, where does the whole EMHC thing come from? I’m not 100% sure, but isn’t it an indult? In fact, like communion in the hand, something finally codified because so many people ignored or defied existing rules?

I know some good Catholics accept this sort of thing with perfect equanimity. However, many of us are dismayed by it.

If you feel the way I do, consider the following small gesture of defiance: (1) Quietly, unobtrusively move from the line receiving from EMHC into the line receiving from ordained Priest; & (2) receive on your tongue.

Hey, we have rights, too.

ASD​

Dude! Where’s my Church?

ASD,
It actually started with Vatican II. Yes, the real Vatican II not the “Vatican II says [insert personal opinion]” stuff.

The intention of the Council was to provide for extraordinary circumstances. As we all know, that notion has been expanded-upon and abused to no end, but the actual origin is the Council.

All EMHCs must be appointed by the priest for each individial act of assisting to distribute Communion. We can only speculate as to whether or not the priest made such an appointment (even if it was done silently), but even so, there’s no reason or excuse for an EMHC taking the chalice from the altar, as opposed to being handed the chalice from the priest.

I do think we can assume that the priest knew her and at least tacitly approved of what she was doing, or else he would have stopped her.

It’s certainly not the right way to do things, don’t get me wrong, but it is something that happened “once” and it was out of the ordinary in that the deacon wasn’t there. Sometimes things just happen the wrong way and the best way to handle that is to ignore it at the moment and deal with it later, rather than to further detract from the dignity of the Mass by trying to “backtrack” and fix something which by then is in-the-past. It should never have happened, but the question of “what do we do now that it has happened?” is sometimes best left for outside of Mass. Apparently, that’s what this priest thought at the moment–at least let’s hope so.

 

[EvelynEVF]

Wow, you all got busy after I went to bed!

The person who took the chalice is not an EMHC, but is staff. We usually receive both species because a deacon is present. The priest is not old and has in the past been quite comfortable asking for an EMHC or lector from the sanctuary, at least during daily Mass. I did some of the setup last night and he had plenty of time to ask me, as I am an EMHC. Since he did not ask, I did not go forward.

In this case, I believe the priest intended to distribute only the hosts, because I was second in line, and there was only the tiniest puddle of Precious Blood in the chalice, not nearly enough for the number of people we had. My first thought was that he had not intended it to be distributed, and certainly not in that informal way, but I thought I’d check here and make sure that what was done was not an appropriate variant that I hadn’t seen before.

Frankly, I was shocked to see someone go just pick it up off the altar.
Thanks!

 

[Sir_Knight]

If you feel the way I do, consider the following small gesture of defiance: (1) Quietly, unobtrusively move from the line receiving from EMHC into the line receiving from ordained Priest; & (2) receive on your tongue.

Hey, we have rights, too.

Not if exercising YOUR “rights” denies the GREATER rights of somebody else.