Spousal loyalty, continued

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Marianne_Ph

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Another thread is describing a similar situation, but I need direction, Scripture, thoughts.

My situation: (Please bear with me!) 90 yr. old mother-in-law (“MIL”) living alone in a filthy, cluttered, smelly house. Mentally alert, physically feeble; Hoarding mounds of belongings which are strewn inside & out; stacks of books 5’ tall & on shelves to the ceilings, a garage heaped w/ sacks of groceries that cannot be put in the overflowing kitchen cabinets; Cats’ litter box not cleaned for months; A recluse with no social connections since I’ve know her, is a non-church-going Protestant. Two daughters have taken no action; I’m married to her son.

I offered to clean for her, and spent several sessions doing so, over her objections. She resists help saying she’d rather just visit with us. After realizing the extent of need & neglect, we arranged for a woman to clean for her.

This Christian woman came highly recommended. She is caring, loving, experienced with elderly, deeply spiritual and prayerful. She is poor, can barely pay bills, drives a junker car, etc, was let go from Church job, b/c of budget problems.

MIL and Cleaning Lady share interests in reading fiction. MIL lent books. MIL now accuses Cleaning Lady of stealing certain books. CL says she does not have them & has offered to replace the missing books, and/or search the house for them with MIL. I believe Cleaning Lady after a lengthy, tearful, hurtful explanation.

MIL wants no more of Cleaning Lady, since she is stealing and will not concede that she, herself, could have misplaced these books… My husband believes his mother, and rejects my view and that of Cleaning Lady. Case closed. Firing her will cause hardship for this woman, but frankly it would be difficult for both of them to continue under the circumstances.

I feel betrayed by my husband who I feel is supporting his mother over me. I see this as an issue of valuing things over people, and creating a very hurtful situation for an already oppressed person. I am disgusted by the whole thing.

Your thoughts? I value the integrity and views of the godly people in this group! Many thanks.
 
My view is that your MIL is mentally alert and that you have no place trying to dictate who she allows in her home. Not your place at all and telling your husband that he is being disloyal by not pushing his mom in to doing your friend a favor even though she isn’t comfortable with the cleaning lady is wrong of you.
 
Thank you for your thoughts. You are right, I should not dictate who she has in her house. However, she clearly needs help. Any suggestions? The family is concerned for my MIL’s well-being. She is self-sufficient but feeble, a reclusive hoarder, living in neglect, filth and squalor. You walk through pathways of junk all over the floors - tripping hazard for her. She lives with unhealthy conditions and fire risk: extensive clutter, rotting food smell coming out of closed refrigerator (I threw away a jar of pickles expired 1995), animal urine so strong breathing burns your throat, and the cats go elsewhere - behind the furniture. The cleaning lady is not my friend, but an employee. MIL cares more for her possessions than people by accusing this woman of stealing. She cannot find things and has placed the blame on someone else. I would not and did not challenge my husband’s views. I am feeling betrayed by his loyalty to his mother and not supporting my views. I am his wife of 45 years!
 
My view is that it sounds as though your MIL is mentally ill, she seems to suffer from compulsive hoarding and may be delusional (false accusations that someone has stolen something are extremely common). Of course no one can know, based on an internet forum. If you find the books she said were stolen, then that is evidence of a kind. Your husband may have a lot of trouble accepting this idea. There’s not all that much you can do about it, if your MIL is able to take care of herself. Best to avoid getting into too much conflict with your husband.

You asked for advice from the godly people on the forum and now you have advice from an atheist and an agnostic. 😉
 
I suggest you seek an evaluation of a kind from an impartial person, like a nurse or doctor (e.g. a geriatrician) or social worker (or priest, for that matter) who could evaluate your MIL (ideally visit her). Best to be someone experienced in these matters.
 
I used to work with the elderly when I was in college. The behavior you describe is indicative of mild dementia. The unreasonable accusation of stealing is a tip off. While you clearly need to respect your mother-in-law’s autonomy, if a person is not able to take care of themselves because of infirmity and cognitive issues, then it becomes incumbent upon the family to take action. Perhaps you should ask your husband to contact the state’s senior and disabled services division and request a social worker do an assessment. His mother won’t like it, but many times resistance to reasonable care is simply a manifestation of the underlying cognitive issues. If she’s mentally competent, then she should live as she chooses. If she’s not mentally competent, then reasonable care can be provided to ensure she is able to stay in her own home.
 
Marriane, although it feels like disloyalty, I’m not sure that it constitutes disloyalty in this case, but good judgement. My husband would take the same view and he would be right. I shouldn’t clean unasked or employ a cleaner unless it is her expressed wish.

It’s not your place to ‘fix’ your mother-in-law’s house or issues.
No amount of cleaning will solve the problem. You would learn that eventually.
She has to want to change her lifestyle, and she apparently doesn’t.

You could suggest kindly to your husband that your mother-in-law may have need for help for some psychological issues,
or as Boccherini and mdleagedguy have suggested, there could be some age-related problems.

I myself should not intervene regarding the cleaning unless asked by the person, (or if she willingly acquiesced) in this case, your mother-in-law, but you have been given wise advice regarding an independent assessment.

May God bless your family relationships. If your mother-in-law feels implicitly criticised and is hurt, (as she could well do) may God heal that and may God bless whatever can occur or be implemented to improve her situation and life-quality.

It would be preferable if your husband could initiate anything that may be needed, but as a son he may accept her mother for who she is more readily, and he may perhaps not be ready to initiate anything. The fact that he does have a question regarding taking over the issue of his mother’s cleaning does give an inkling that he is possibly a sensible man. I think I might trust his judgement, as I do my husband’s?

I do understand how painful it is. I have had an inlaw with the issue, but she did on occasion call me in to get her house in order. I’d come, look around, wonder where on earth to start at first! I know it’s not easy and you can feel anxious and helpless about a family member’s home, and it’s hard not to do something about it. I know from experience that no matter how much you help, nothing changes, because the block, the issue, is within the person herself.

May God give peace to the cleaning lady
May God bless you, and your husband, and your mother-in-law.

🙂 Trishie
 
You have two different problems here.

One is the matter of what, if anything, you should do about your MIL.

The other problem is that you think your husband has chosen his mother over you.

Based on what you say, it seems clear that your MIL has problems. You attempted to help but it didn’t work out well. And now you and your husband are arguing over the word of a cleaning lady.

Or are you?

I imagine you hate to see someone unjustly accused and as such I think you are failing to see the the that your husband is not really interested in whether or the cleaning lady told the truth. For your husband, the real issue is whether or not his mother is “OK”.

My guess is that you are feeling unappreciated for trying to help your MIL. You are of the opinion that your MIL is not OK. I suspect you think nothing can make her “OK”. Your husband is not ready for such a pronouncement. From his perspective, the cleaning lady has resulted in his mother being less than OK.

Let this one go.
 
If MIL doesn’t trust her- right or wrong- she doesn’t, and so the woman should no longer be in the home.

It’s Dec- I’d let her go with this month’s pay and a Christmas bonus, as well as a good reference from you.

As for MIL, you may need to contact social services, and see who they would recommend for evaluation/what to do in this sort of situation.
 
Marianne_Ph said:
Another thread is describing a similar situation, but I need direction, Scripture, thoughts.

My situation: (Please bear with me!) 90 yr. old mother-in-law (“MIL”) living alone in a filthy, cluttered, smelly house. Mentally alert, physically feeble; Hoarding mounds of belongings which are strewn inside & out; stacks of books 5’ tall & on shelves to the ceilings, a garage heaped w/ sacks of groceries that cannot be put in the overflowing kitchen cabinets; Cats’ litter box not cleaned for months; A recluse with no social connections since I’ve know her, is a non-church-going Protestant. Two daughters have taken no action; I’m married to her son.

I offered to clean for her, and spent several sessions doing so, over her objections. She resists help saying she’d rather just visit with us. After realizing the extent of need & neglect, we arranged for a woman to clean for her.

This Christian woman came highly recommended. She is caring, loving, experienced with elderly, deeply spiritual and prayerful. She is poor, can barely pay bills, drives a junker car, etc, was let go from Church job, b/c of budget problems.

MIL and Cleaning Lady share interests in reading fiction. MIL lent books. MIL now accuses Cleaning Lady of stealing certain books. CL says she does not have them & has offered to replace the missing books, and/or search the house for them with MIL. I believe Cleaning Lady after a lengthy, tearful, hurtful explanation.

MIL wants no more of Cleaning Lady, since she is stealing and will not concede that she, herself, could have misplaced these books… My husband believes his mother, and rejects my view and that of Cleaning Lady. Case closed. Firing her will cause hardship for this woman, but frankly it would be difficult for both of them to continue under the circumstances.

I feel betrayed by my husband who I feel is supporting his mother over me. I see this as an issue of valuing things over people, and creating a very hurtful situation for an already oppressed person. I am disgusted by the whole thing.

Your thoughts? I value the integrity and views of the godly people in this group! Many thanks.
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MIL is a hoarder. My own grandmother, who was dying of cancer and lived in our house while we all took care of her, accused my mother (her daughter) of poisoning her near the end. She was loosing her mind along with her body. She died weighing 60 lbs.

Your husband needs to WAKE UP! If someone is going to steal, it’s not going to be ‘books’. Give me a break! What went on is MIL has hoarding issues and resents CL because she is working against MIL hording issues. MIL also recongizes she is toward the end of her life, and she wants desperately to maintain her independence. This is very, very common with the elderly who live alone. So she is trying to push the CL away. I think your husband should give CL a $500 bonus and a dozen roses for Christmas.

God Bless,
Bill
 
I hope when I grow old, my dil’s love me as much as you love your mil.

My grandmother developed mild dementia, and she wouldn’t allow cleaning help or home health aides. It’s a common symptom.
 
SMHW said:
Let this one go.
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I should add that you shouldn’t give up on your concern over your MIL.

But you need to let go of the idea that your husband siding with his mother over the cleaning lady is an attack on you.
 
Aggies08 said:
If MIL doesn’t trust her- right or wrong- she doesn’t, and so the woman should no longer be in the home.

It’s Dec- I’d let her go with this month’s pay and a Christmas bonus, as well as a good reference from you.
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👍
Aggies08 said:
As for MIL, you may need to contact social services, and see who they would recommend for evaluation/what to do in this sort of situation.
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While I generally agree with this, I would offer the caution that MIL’s own children may not appreciate this. I’m not saying don’t do it. I’m just saying that the ideal would be if the husband or his siblings handled this.
 
You and your husband need to be on the same side of this problem. His mother needs help. You tried to help her, but your way of helping was misguided. Hoarders are not simply poor housekeepers. It is a type of mental illness, sometimes brought on by depression, but very hard to cure on a permanent basis without extensive therapy. The symptoms can also be caused through senility or dementia - and Alzheimer’s.

Give the cleaning lady her normal salary plus a bonus. Also if you know of anyone else who could use help, you could give her a reference. Hoarders are extremely difficult to deal with, and accusations of stealing are very common. They can get paranoid and very suspicious of everyone, including their family.

And sit down with your husband and have a talk about his mom’s safety in her house. I’m sure you care about her, so keep reinforcing that to your husband. “I’m so sorry that my effort to help your mother were misguided, but what can we do to help her out of that dangerous situation?” You might remind him that a hoarder recently died in a fire because the firefighters could not get to him because of his hoard.

If he is dismissive or doesn’t seem to understand the problem, you can ask him if it’s all right if you contact other family members who might be able to help. You shouldn’t do this behind his back! Ask him if he can think of any family member who might have better success with his mom than you did, and if he can, can you call them and work on getting his mom some help? That might help defuse the situation and remove it from your household and your marriage.

Do not underestimate the hoarding. It’s really mental illness of some sort or other, and cleaning the home would achieve nothing except to cause the hoarder extreme fear, suspicion and distress. Your MIL needs help desperately, but if her family won’t step in, your hands may be tied. I would not call social services without your husband’s permission. That could get the whole family in a huge roil.

I’ll add you to my prayers! And, WELCOME to CAF!!! :love::love:
 
Well… perhaps your husband believes his mother because he can not bare to face the reality that his mom is showing the signs of being 90. Some people have trouble accepting their parents are not always going to be there to take care of them. Since it is his mom, I think he gets to determine if CL stays or not.

Now the other problem of the way MIL lives. Does your husband agree it is a problem and needs to be addressed? If yes, ask him how he wants to address it.

I know it must be hard to see someone like that who refuses your help… however, speaking from experience, nothing annoys me more than someone who insists I need their help when I don’t want it. The best is to follow your husbands wishes

CM
 
cmscms said:
. Since it is his mom, I think he gets to determine if CL stays or not.

CM
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It is probably going to be this way anyway. But if the hubby fires the CL and MIL stays the way she is (hoarder, elderly) her behaviors are NOT going ot change. This is, in effect, from DIL- subjecting other ppl to abuse through accusations and meanness from MIL. Sounds to me like CL is a SAINT to put up with MIL. Many will walk out if not very desperate for money.

If hubby gets another one I would insist he write down that he acknowledges that MIL has hoarding issues, that he will read up on this (and make sure he does), and that elderly accuse ppl of stealing etc from hoarding issues and from being elderly- the issues that arise from that alone.

It’s simply cruel to subject more people to what is known to be a very hostile enviornment, in a sense ‘attacks’ by MIL when you know what is going on. I would want my spouse to at a minimum to acknowledge her behaviors and agree to give CL a FAT bonus if it turns out she accuses the next CL of the same or similar things.

Peace,
Bill
 
The biggest issue here is that you need to recognize that your MIL has a problem. Probably the beginning of dementia/paranoia .Is she drinking and mixing medication with alcohol at night? Start exploring any elderly support services in your area. You will need to get ready because things often quickly get worse at your MIL’s age and you need to have a plan ready for that moment when she can no longer live alone. From the sounds of it that moment has arrived. It is hard to bring up these issues to an elderly parent but it must be faced. There is also the delicate issue of taking the car keys away when she becomes unsafe to drive. I recently went through a similar situation with my 91 yr old FIL and it was very hard. He was failing for quite a while before we could recognize it and admit it to ourselves. Then each time he was hospitalized it became crystal clear that he could no longer live alone despite his objections. Ask your mother’s doctor for his/her opinion and for help. You may also need to take over her finances and get a statement from her physician when she becomes unable to do these things. The very fact that she is a hoarder suggest that she is unable to handle finances right now. Good luck.
 
cmscms said:
Well… perhaps your husband believes his mother because he can not bare to face the reality that his mom is showing the signs of being 90. Some people have trouble accepting their parents are not always going to be there to take care of them. Since it is his mom, I think he gets to determine if CL stays or not.

Now the other problem of the way MIL lives. Does your husband agree it is a problem and needs to be addressed? If yes, ask him how he wants to address it.

I know it must be hard to see someone like that who refuses your help… however, speaking from experience, nothing annoys me more than someone who insists I need their help when I don’t want it. The best is to follow your husbands wishes

CM
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Ditto… husband should be the one dealing with this issue, not you.
Bill_7154 said:
MIL is a hoarder. My own grandmother, who was dying of cancer and lived in our house while we all took care of her, accused my mother (her daughter) of poisoning her near the end. She was loosing her mind along with her body. She died weighing 60 lbs.

Your husband needs to WAKE UP! If someone is going to steal, it’s not going to be ‘books’. Give me a break! What went on is MIL has hoarding issues and resents CL because she is working against MIL hording issues. MIL also recongizes she is toward the end of her life, and she wants desperately to maintain her independence. This is very, very common with the elderly who live alone. So she is trying to push the CL away. I think your husband should give CL a $500 bonus and a dozen roses for Christmas.

God Bless,
Bill
Click to expand...
Another good point.
SMHW said:
You have two different problems here.

One is the matter of what, if anything, you should do about your MIL.

The other problem is that you think your husband has chosen his mother over you.

Based on what you say, it seems clear that your MIL has problems. You attempted to help but it didn’t work out well. And now you and your husband are arguing over the word of a cleaning lady.

Or are you?

I imagine you hate to see someone unjustly accused and as such I think you are failing to see the the that your husband is not really interested in whether or the cleaning lady told the truth. For your husband, the real issue is whether or not his mother is “OK”.

My guess is that you are feeling unappreciated for trying to help your MIL. You are of the opinion that your MIL is not OK. I suspect you think nothing can make her “OK”. Your husband is not ready for such a pronouncement. From his perspective, the cleaning lady has resulted in his mother being less than OK.

Let this one go.
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Total agreement… there are bigger issues at play here and it seems like your husband is really not ready to see the problem that is staring him in the face. You need to say your peace - and you have through words and actions of trying to get her help - and then do your best to** let your husband handle the situation in its entirety.**
 
Demetra2 said:
The biggest issue here is that you need to recognize that your MIL has a problem. Probably the beginning of dementia/paranoia .Is she drinking and mixing medication with alcohol at night? Start exploring any elderly support services in your area. You will need to get ready because things often quickly get worse at your MIL’s age and you need to have a plan ready for that moment when she can no longer live alone. From the sounds of it that moment has arrived. It is hard to bring up these issues to an elderly parent but it must be faced. There is also the delicate issue of taking the car keys away when she becomes unsafe to drive. I recently went through a similar situation with my 91 yr old FIL and it was very hard. He was failing for quite a while before we could recognize it and admit it to ourselves. Then each time he was hospitalized it became crystal clear that he could no longer live alone despite his objections. Ask your mother’s doctor for his/her opinion and for help. You may also need to take over her finances and get a statement from her physician when she becomes unable to do these things. The very fact that she is a hoarder suggest that she is unable to handle finances right now. Good luck.
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It’s not the OP’s own mother, it’s her MIL, and her husband is resistant to take any action, evidently. If she oversteps her boundaries as a DIL, she will cause problems in her marriage and in her husband’s family. The most she can do is express her concern and try to talk to her husband and/or his family about getting some help for her MIL. If she tries to force the issue, it’s not going to go well.

You say your FIL was failing and you were able to get him help - but I imagine your husband was cooperative and just as concerned. If your husband did not want to believe that his father was in need of help, you’d have had a similar problem on your hands, to the OP.
 
It is the MIL accusing the CL because it is interference with her hoarding.

If Hubbie wants to fire the CL, I say let him do it, but he must spend 3 days for at lest 2 hours a day helping his mom clean and dealing with it.
It would be good for the Hubbie and the MIL to spend time together anyway, and may help with the hoarding issue.

In the reverse though, make sure it doesn’t consume all of Hubbie’s time. (from experience) Make sure you come to an agreement on how long Hubbie should be there because his mom is going to start to want to hard him too.
 
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