Spousal loyalty, continued

  • Thread starter Thread starter Marianne_Ph
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To all the wonderful posters who took the time to respond to my request for help: Thank you so much!

Just knowing there is a place to relay this information and getting such caring feedback has given me peace. Thanks to all of you and to the grace of God! I’ve bowed out completely from the situation. I pray for my mother-in-law and her eternal soul.

The lady we hired to clean for her took her termination very well. She told me how much she enjoyed knowing her, and cherishes their visits while she was working for her.

By the way, I worked with the elderly in an assisted living facility ( it is Catholic!) for 11 yrs. and saw these situations daily. It is entirely different when it happens in your own family!

Again, you are all so wonderful to offer your support and helpful ideas.
 
CatherineOH said:
It is the MIL accusing the CL because it is interference with her hoarding.

If Hubbie wants to fire the CL, I say let him do it, but he must spend 3 days for at lest 2 hours a day helping his mom clean and dealing with it.
It would be good for the Hubbie and the MIL to spend time together anyway, and may help with the hoarding issue.

In the reverse though, make sure it doesn’t consume all of Hubbie’s time. (from experience) Make sure you come to an agreement on how long Hubbie should be there because his mom is going to start to want to hard him too.
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His mom doesn’t want to clean. She lives in filth because she has a mental illness called hoarding. If he tried to go and spend 2 hours a day for 3 days with her, and trying to clean, they’d both end up frustrated and nothing would be accomplished. With a hoarder, you can’t just go in and clean up for them. The mess is in their heads and they will re-create it starting the minute you walk out the door, unless they get therapy. Before any cleaning goes on, the mother needs some help from some agency that knows how to break down her defenses and get through to her in a way that will do some good.

Otherwise you are just clearing up the symptoms temporarily and not addressing the root cause.
 
Right. and I think Marianne knows this as she has posted much information to that effect. Her husband on the other had is not willing to accept that and thinks it is the CL’s fault. (see her reply post to all of us two posts above)

And you know that he needs to be the one to help his mom so he can come to terms that his mom does have a problem. Till he can face that, his mom will never be encouraged to face that herself and receive help. You can lock her up in a mental hospital and put her on all the drugs in the world, but will never help her condition until SHE wants the help.
 
CatherineOH said:
Right. and I think Marianne knows this as she has posted much information to that effect. Her husband on the other had is not willing to accept that and thinks it is the CL’s fault. (see her reply post to all of us two posts above)

And you know that he needs to be the one to help his mom so he can come to terms that his mom does have a problem. Till he can face that, his mom will never be encouraged to face that herself and receive help. You can lock her up in a mental hospital and put her on all the drugs in the world, but will never help her condition until SHE wants the help.
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:sad_yes:

Very true. Other than some who are treated with antidepressants, there aren’t any drugs to cure or even ameliorate hoarding. It’s mental illness but a lot of different factors play into it. And many times, the hoarders simply refuse the help. Their anxiety gets too high when their things are removed. (Being a claustrophobic, I understand anxiety when you face what is for you, a phobia.)

I will pray that the OP’s husband’s eyes will be opened to the fact that his mom needs help.
 
You all have a good grasp of the hoarding disorder/illness. When my husband and I originally decided to try to give her some help, my adult son and I showed up with buckets and gloves to give a quick once-over. After 3 hrs. we all realized the extent of the problem. I scrubbed down one small bathroom, top to bottom in that time. It had not been touched in years. My son was horrified to find mounds of animal fur and other underneath furniture in the tiny living room. He only managed the small living room and hall. She had sacks of items that we had to move around. Another day, I dug through 50 yrs. of thick, black gunk on the Vent-a-Hood - a real fire hazard.

We all decided she might be more comfortable with someone else doing the cleaning. I was willing to do it weekly for her, and we could see she really didn’t want that. She agreed and it started out well. She told us she was motivated to tackle some of the clutter and did so. None of us touched her cluttered, hoarded items, but offered to donate or haul off what she didn’t want to keep. We did not know at that point that is was not just a cleaning issue.

I bought books and studied about hoarding behavior. It is a strange, sad illness. The person considers the items an extension of themselves, their bodies. Each tiny piece of paper and all of the possessions need to be controlled by the hoarder. They continually buy more. She is beyond getting professional help at her age and thinks she is just fine. In the beginning, she began to clean out closets and donate items! For example, she emptied a closet with a hat collection with every hat she’d ever owned from the 40’s, and those her daughters wore as children. (Daughters now in their 60’s)

For me, it is shocking to recognize that her 3 children - in their 60’s - also think she is fine. Apparently, she’s been like this her whole life, so they don’t think it is unusual for her. There are no other relatives except her 3 children and their spouses, and grandchildren. My own children are very concerned for her health & safety.

There are much worse cases than hers. Sometimes the hoarder will not let anyone, including family, come into the house, forgets to pay bills, utilities are shut off. The loss of items and accusation of stealing is common. She is responsible with her personal life. She is a social recluse - also common. No friends or social involvement in the 47 yrs. I’ve known her.

I hope none of you ever have to deal with this issue in your families. We should all pray for people suffering from mental illnesses, and the families who deal with it daily.
 
Matt Paxton’s book “The Secret Lives of Hoarders” is a good resource. (He’s on the A&E Hoarders show.)
 
Actually, I have to deal with it within myself. Though I’m not a hoarder, I could very easily become one. I am an artist at heart, and a packrat.

I have a small house (by choice though I can afford larger) and am busy with my business outside the property much of the day. I also have quite a few working hobbies (traditional crafts such as woodworking and blacksmithing) which take a lot of equipment.

As a typical artist, I also have a sensitive side and am a bit OCD. I have piles, stacks, and covies of supplies in each area. It is bad when You have to dig through the woodpile in the garage/wood-shop for that one piece of walnut you put there 4 years ago after making a jewelry box for someone…and realize you haven’t really moved the pile in 10 years.

Me a packrat and not a hoarder? Well, all my friends are welcome in my house. They just know to expect dog hair in the corners and having to move a newly purchased side of leather off the only couch in the living room if they want to sit. (living room is the leather shop) My friends know that this is my release of the OCD, and they are happy to have me make something, or teach them how to. (look up photos of old workshops. some of them are terribly cluttered and none are ‘neat’)

So yes, I can well understand both sides of the issue. What I don’t understand is why they don’t want anyone within their house. I think that is where the mental disorder does come in. They really don’t like being messy and are ashamed of it, but being perfectionists (The OCD part of it) they also can’t do anything about it. They are stuck in a warp of time and frustration.
 
“What I don’t understand is why they don’t want anyone within their house. I think that is where the mental disorder does come in.”

Yes, I think that’s an important distinction. Hoarders try to keep people out of their houses. If you have friends and they visit in your home, you’re not much of a hoarder.
 
Marianne_Ph said:
I bought books and studied about hoarding behavior. It is a strange, sad illness. The person considers the items an extension of themselves, their bodies. Each tiny piece of paper and all of the possessions need to be controlled by the hoarder. They continually buy more.
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Yes, and that is why just getting rid of the “stuff” makes them so anxious and fearful. They can also weave a story about what each tiny piece of clutter, even TRASH, signifies or might become. They are quite creative about that, but as you listen, you realize that their mental processes are twisted and broken.

The isolation is both a symptom and part of the cause of the problem. The more isolated the hoarder becomes, the more removed they get from any sort of functioning life. The more time they spend alone, in their world of clutter and chaos, the more emotionally closed off they become.

Simple depression can resemble or play into hoarding, because of the inability to make decisions of any kind. Sorting through mounds of clutter means thousands of decisions, which takes more mental effort than a depressed person can sustain. The clutter can come from years of not making these daily decisions, and of course then the person is entirely out of practice, and just one decision to throw something away causes panic and anxiety. But most depressed people do not become hoarders, it seems to take an extra “something” to put people into that category.

It’s a fascinating subject to me, but I’m sorry you are going through this. You and your MIL are in my prayers.
 
Indeed there is something.

My prayers for Marianne and family, and especially for her MIL
Prayers to St. Anthony and St. Jude
 
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