Spouse vs. parents

[JLCecilia]

So, our sitter is taking a day off (AGAIN, RRRG!!!), leaving DH and me scrambling to cover. Initially he said he would just ask to work from home. I told him, if worse came to worse, we could split the day and I would work in the morning and he could work the afternoon. Little did I know that he had called and asked his dad to watch the littles (4 and 1yo). His dad cancelled his dental appt that day and said he’d be there. Normally, no problem. My issue? His dad is having lithotrypsy tomorrow for kidney stones. Now, I know we know people who’ve had this done and gone to a ball game 2 hours later, but I can’t hang my hat on that. His dad needs to rest (even though he probably won’t while he’s at home, but that’s his business). It isn’t safe for his dad OR our children. He may feel fine in the morning and then get to feeling really awful in the afternoon and we’d be in a bind b/c we didn’t make provisions for that.

DH’s response was that no matter what he tries to do, he’s going to make someone mad. This is one instance in a string of offers his dad has made that I’ve shot down b/c it just isn’t suitable for our family or home at this given time. I’ve told DH that if his dad wants to make a serious offer (for instance, buying us an appliance), he needs to do it in person with both of us together instead of making plans w/ DH behind my back, so to speak. If his dad could hear NO from me in person, the issue would be dropped. I don’t want to sound like a princess here, and I didn’t say this to HIM, but I can’t help thinking “okay, so me or your dad?” DH doesn’t say NO to his dad. How many arguments of this nature do we have to have before DH develops a canned response to his dad: “let me check w/ DW.”

I know this goes both ways, but I couldn’t help thinking of the scripture that a MAN should leave his mother and father and cling to his wife. Why did they say that of men and not women? In our case, DH is just much closer to his folks than I am to mine. And his family is more loyal to one another than mine.

 

[EasterJoy]

I don’t think this is a husband-wife issue. You could easily have a similar problem with an adult child living at home or with a co-worker or with your child’s teacher.

With this limited amount of information, it seems this has to do with a) differing communication expectations and assumptions and b) how two adults have negotiated independent decision-making within their shared authority to make decisions. You and your husband do not agree on what decision he can make on his own and which ones require your seal of approval.

You have not given your husband the authority to decide who may or may not take care of your children without consulting you when it is possible to consult you–and to be fair, I doubt that he has asked for it. He thinks he can decide on his own; you don’t. You expect that the two of you will consult with each other when the situation is not a repeat of something you’ve agreed in advance is OK. For instance, I’m sure that if you had once agreed that your MIL was fine watching the children and there was no confounding variable like a recent surgery, you could get to the point where your husband, knowing for a fact that there are no schedule conflicts, could agree to let her have the children without calling you first every time. If he didn’t know the schedule, though, then he has no advance agreement and would have to check back with you. You’d do the same for him–that is, you’d only make decisions solo when you know the decision is something you two had agreed was OK.

Your husband, meanwhile, feels that as long as he communicates “the bottom line”–in this case, “Count me as having the child care thing covered”–there is no need for him to vet the exact way he gets “the job” done. He arranges child care, which from his point of view is what he “said” he’d do, but you “hear” him saying to you was, “I doing child care, personally.” His dad is OK with you as a caregiver, your husband feels he can judge when his dad is not going to be up to the job, and therefore your husband thinks that calling his dad was within the boundaries of your shared understanding of who could do child care. There is your problem.

Your husband wouldn’t have made anybody mad if he had been clear that he might call someone else to do the child care that you understood he was doing. You’re unhappy not because your husband couldn’t have asked you about your dad and made the decision on his own because it was impractical to consult with you. You’re unhappy because he could have asked you before he ever called his dad and he certainly could have checked with you before he agreed to allow your FIL to cancel his dental appointment in order to watch the children following a surgery. You think the situation your husband arranged fell outside of your advance agreements; your husband did not.

I doubt that your husband is “doing things behind your back” on purpose–that is, operating on the rather cynical principle that it is easier to get forgiveness than permission–because he doesn’t like making you mad. He has a different view of what decisions are his to make without consulting you first. IOW, this is not about your FIL and your husband not being able to say “no” to him. Your husband called his dad and made the request, not the other way around! This is about what decisions you want your husband making without getting a consensus approval with you and what decisions he wants to make all by himself.

I would really suggest that you understand that perhaps your husband wants more independent decision-making ability than you want him to have and especially wants to appear to have more than you want him to have. I would not insist, for instance, that he have his dad (or any other salesperson, for that matter) pitch all his proposals to the two of you in person. I’d only insist that my husband stop and consider, “will Cecilia want to have a say in this?” and if the answer is “yes,” then to say to his father (or whoever else is asking) something more general, such as “let me think about that and check our schedule and such with Cecilia,” so he can avoid what might feel to him like a parent-child thing with you, where you are the parent with the ultimate veto and he is the child who has to get an OK from “mom.”

Have this talk, and make it clear that there are many decisions that you don’t make with him. He may want to say, “hey, let’s just decide ahead of time what kind of decisions we can each make on the spot. I trust your judgment, and even though you’re going to make mistakes, I’m willing to roll with your decisions when you’re wrong.” You may want to say, “when it comes to child care, I want to know each time when you’re lining up someone else, because if an earthquake hits I always want to know where everyone in the family is and who is taking care of them.”

The advantage of this tack is that it avoids and unnecessary “your family or me” ultimatum–that is not really what this is about–and keeps the question on the ground of “this is when I want you to consult with me and this is what I want you to tell me because this is when I’d expect myself to consult with you and the kind of things I’d expect myself to tell you.” Whatever you do, give your husband the dignity of expecting the same from you as you expect of him. Do not expect to make your own decisions without telling him while withholding the right from him to make the exact same decisions without telling you. Think about that very hard, because we mothers are notorious for giving ourselves authority in child-rearing and child-care decisions that we don’t want to allow our husbands.

 

[shainski]

I’ll be honest. Your post is a bit hard to understand - both with the tenses of when this happened (or is about to happen), and who asked whom,.

You seem to imply that your FIL offers things to your husband behind your back. But, you said that your DH asked your FIL if he could watch the children. So, FIL didn’t offer anything this case - he was asked by your husband. He even changed his own plans to help. That seems like a gracious response.

I was about to agree with you - about whether FIL is suitable on the day of this procedure (although, I don’t know much about this procedure).

But when you started throwing in the scriptures about clinging to a spouse and leaving a parent - and then your relationship with your parents and his with his parents, and then offers of washing machines - it just seems like there is a lot going on here outside of who is going to watch your kids tomorrow.

I don’t get why this is a choosing “ME or YOUR dad” kind of thing. And I think that making it into such a discussion, is going to not end well.

If it were me, and my wife made a decision without my involvement - and I thought it was unsuitable, I would first talk to her about why i thought it was unsuitable. And then I would ask her to include me when she decided to alter plans (that we had already agreed to) that involved our childrens’ care. And then I would tell her that I am really not comfortable with her father watching the children tomorrow right after his surgery. And then I would tell her that I will take the day off of work to watch them so his dad can rest.

I would leave all the rest of the baggage out of this particular discussion. Perhaps you can deal with that at another time - and can articulate exactly what the issue is.

 

[shainski]

Easter Joy’s comments were yet posted as I was when I was writing my reply, but her sentiments seem to pretty much mirror my own.

 

[styrgwillidar]

I think Easter Joy is dead on.

This is about the decision making authority each of you have within the marriage, to what extent you can decide autonomously and when a joint decision is required. It needs to be spelled out and understood.

 

[JLCecilia]

Shainski, I certainly don’t plan on bringing the “your dad or me” idea to DH. I definitely don’t feel that way, I’m just miffed right now. I know FIL didn’t make a cold offer for childcare as he did with the appliance, but since he said he would do something, it’s therefore set in stone. I hate to think that, DH having to go back to him and decline his offer, he might therefore in the future withhold information from us that might alter our decision about his suitability.

But, yeah, I think the biggest issue was that DH didn’t tell me he was going to ask his dad. If he had known prior to asking that his dad was having an OP procedure, he wouldn’t have even called him. But, in the moment, there’s that awkward moment where you instinctively want to say “oh, okay, better not then,” but the other person insists, so you agree, against your better judgement. Poor DH, I would NOT back down on the phone. He kept insisting that “dad said he would”, like no matter how bad he felt, he’d be there. But I wasn’t willing to hang my hat on his or his dad’s presumption about how he will be feeling that day. Sorry, I don’t think that’s particularly heroic, that’s just insensible. Instead of leaving the door open with his dad with “let me TT DW and I’ll call you back to confirm,” he accepted without telling me.

So, instead of asking to work from home (which his boss would probably permit), he’s burning a vaca day (being a martyr). He plans on getting some studying done. I certainly hope it works out. Just stinks that he probably won’t TT me the rest of the week, so I don’t know when I’m going to have a chance to TT him about it or even how I can approach him without him feeling like I’m imposing the rules on him.

 

[pianistclare]

Well, in previous posts, there’s been some talk about only having a small number of days that you can call in.
I think your husband is reacting to the “panic over what to do”. He jumped in. He thought he saved the day, and now you’re upset.
I would let him handle it if dad doesn’t feel well enough.
I would agree that you two have to come up with reliable sitters, even a service as someone suggested a thread ago.
This not knowing what to do and having to make a decision on the fly is what is getting to all of you. You certainly can’t afford to burn bridges with relatives. They want to help, but it’s really an issue for you and your husband to come to agreement about. :twocents:

 

[1newcatholic]

As a husband with a wife of a similar disposition, your post was painful, familiar, and made me smile. If you were my wife (be glad you aren’t) I would ask you to take a deep breath and understand that I was just trying to help. It wasn’t a perfect solution by your (very high) standards, and sure things could’ve gone wrong–but now it sounds like he is taking a vacation day to fix the problem… and you’re STILL upset… Which is it? You don’t want your FIN to do the babysitting, and you don’t want to do it, and you don’t want your husband to do it… It’s a little confusing.

 

[EasterJoy]

Shainski, I certainly don’t plan on bringing the “your dad or me” idea to DH. I definitely don’t feel that way, I’m just miffed right now. I know FIL didn’t make a cold offer for childcare as he did with the appliance, but since he said he would do something, it’s therefore set in stone. I hate to think that, DH having to go back to him and decline his offer, he might therefore in the future withhold information from us that might alter our decision about his suitability.

But, yeah, I think the biggest issue was that DH didn’t tell me he was going to ask his dad. If he had known prior to asking that his dad was having an OP procedure, he wouldn’t have even called him. But, in the moment, there’s that awkward moment where you instinctively want to say “oh, okay, better not then,” but the other person insists, so you agree, against your better judgement. Poor DH, I would NOT back down on the phone. He kept insisting that “dad said he would”, like no matter how bad he felt, he’d be there. But I wasn’t willing to hang my hat on his or his dad’s presumption about how he will be feeling that day. Sorry, I don’t think that’s particularly heroic, that’s just insensible. Instead of leaving the door open with his dad with “let me TT DW and I’ll call you back to confirm,” he accepted without telling me.

So, instead of asking to work from home (which his boss would probably permit), he’s burning a vaca day (being a martyr). He plans on getting some studying done. I certainly hope it works out. Just stinks that he probably won’t TT me the rest of the week, so I don’t know when I’m going to have a chance to TT him about it or even how I can approach him without him feeling like I’m imposing the rules on him.

His dad’s habit of bulldozing has to be as hard on him as anyone. That may be the tack you want to take: *How do you feel when your dad does that to you? It has to be hard to know that you can’t go to him with a decision without having him give you the choice of either doing it his way or giving you a hard time about it. I don’t like that he doesn’t let you say, “Hey, I’m not going to let you do it, Dad, end of discussion.” *(And if this is true, because I can’t tell I also don’t like that you seem to feel the same way about me–that is, that you can’t say, "Hey, I decided Dad is good to do it, I made a decision about it, and if you don’t like it, you go tell him that he can’t watch our kids." Then work out how he feels about all this and how you two can communicate in order to get both of you behind your husband when he wants to stick up for himself.

Yes, I mean if your husband has been bulldozed by his parents or by his whole family for his whole life, you may have to give him permission to stand up for himself, including permission to stand up to you: I know I won’t like it at the time, when I want to run things my way, but of course I want you to be able to say, “Hey, I decided, and I’m sticking to my guns on this one.” Maybe we’ll end up compromising, but if I give myself permission to say, “Not so fast, Buster” to you, of course I expect that you have the right to say the same to me. Why shouldn’t you be able to tell your dad you’ve changed your mind?" I think it entirely possible that it doesn’t occur to you that he doesn’t always feel free to stick to his guns, but if not having people “mad at him” is a high priority for him, he may need encouragement to realize that a little conflict with you is safe and a normal part of working out a compromise.

At our house, when one person comes in and tries to run someone else’s project, unilaterally make someone else’s decision, or just bulldoze generally, we call that “grabbing the crayon” or “hogging the crayons” or, when the creative control of the project belongs to the speaker and not anyone else, “grabbing MY crayon.” As in: “Hey, I know how to cook and I know how I want to make this. Put the salt shaker down and quit grabbing my crayons.” Your husband may have the habit of using the crayons that others give him, which puts him in the middle.

As for dealing with his dad, the way to handle it is this: Dad, now that I have all the information, I don’t want you coming to take the kids. If you’re going to insist on doing things your way every time I come to you with some problem I have to solve, I’m going to quit coming to you with my problems. You get to decide at your house, but at my house, I decide. Then if his dad doesn’t learn to abide by that boundary, your husband quits calling up his dad for help. Sometimes, after all, the price tag for help from parents is too high. If you don’t want to pay the price, don’t buy the merchandise.

 

[EasterJoy]

As a husband with a wife of a similar disposition, your post was painful, familiar, and made me smile. If you were my wife (be glad you aren’t) I would ask you to take a deep breath and understand that I was just trying to help. It wasn’t a perfect solution by your (very high) standards, and sure things could’ve gone wrong–but now it sounds like he is taking a vacation day to fix the problem… and you’re STILL upset… Which is it? You don’t want your FIN to do the babysitting, and you don’t want to do it, and you don’t want your husband to do it… It’s a little confusing.

If I were your wife, I’d want to know this: Do you want your dad to do it because you disagree with me and think he’s going to be fine and you are not imposing on him, and think I should let you be the judge of whether or not he’s safe, or do you want your dad to do it even though you agree with me because you’d rather go toe-to-toe with me than with your dad? Are you doing it yourself because you don’t want your dad to give you a hard time about letting me “overrule” you? What exactly is going on here?

A difference of opinion over the husband’s competence to decide what is and isn’t safe and a husband’s willingness to make life hard on his family in order to avoid a conflict with someone outside of the family (but especially an in-law) are two quite different marital issues, after all!

 

[hydin]

I remember a situation where you hid MSRA from this side of the family in July… when it suited your wants. You decided that it was safe it you covered it… MIL found out and uninvited you and your family from a day at the lake.

I suggest counseling rather than venting on this site and trying to pick and choose Bible verses to back up your side. This is not going to get better because you find support here. You may feel better and find support for being right…but damage will still be done. It seems from the few posts I have read of your that you believe what you decide is how it should be. Using the Bible to only prove the fault of another is not exactly why it was given to us.

When this issue came up why didn’t you call his dad and discuss YOUR fears with him? Why force your husband into doing it without you? It was fine with him. You had a valid concern. Him talking about it to your FIL put him in a horrible position… and gave him /your FIL the opportunity to talk about you, since you chose to remain out of the discussion. Your husband handling this without you would, by your definition, be “behind your back”. So you reinforce a behavior and by encouraging it show you approve of it when it suits your needs. If it bothers you then blame your husband for doing it. If you have concerns about child care then you should tell your husband that you will handle it and that he is not expected to find a sitter. It is common for one spouse to allow the other to do something then criticize it by coming up with new “rules” or 'expectations". This is sometimes called passive aggressive behavior… I was an expert as was my ex-wife… Never works out well. Good news is when you realize what is happening you can fix yourself… if you choose to. There is tons to unpack here. I suggest retrouvaille.org/ . I will pray for you and your husband. Stop the posts looking for justification. Start posts admitting where you fall short and asking how to change so that conflict is reduced. Sorry to be firm but guess the Holy Spirit guided me here and to your latest post. One rule about spouses… or anyone in any sort of relationship… you can’t make anyone change. You can only change yourself and hope they notice (it takes 6 months for change to be noticed and another 6 for the spouse to be convinced it is permanent). Worry only about your side of the street… clean it where necessary… When you ask your spouse to do something without any requirements except it get done then you lose the right to come back and blame him for doing it differently than you. imagined.