Spouses receiving Eucharist together

[RichT]

ByzCath:

Then you add this thing about love, as if those who want to follow the what the Church teaches are somehow against love.

Love has nothing to do with this… The Eucharist is where we show our communion as a Church, not where we show our spousal relationship.

I have yet to see anyone post anything in writing that says this practice is wrong or against some rule. I spent several minutes reading the GIRM and this issue is not even remotely addressed. If there is something I have missed, I would invite you to show it to me, and I would be happy to re-think my postition. Otherwise, I will continue to stand by my wife’s side while she receives, and believe me, I wont be worrying about what everyone else is doing.

Afterall, is it wrong for me to feel joy not only in being fed and strengthened by the Body and Blood of Christ, but also in feeling joy knowing that my family is also being fed and strengthened at the same time? I am sure in that upper room, the twelve all received together. Somehow I have a hard time seeing Jesus being bothered by this.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

You walk up, you are given the Eucharist and you move on.

I do not see how this could even develope.

My guess is it has to do with the over use of EEM’s.

I do not think you will ever see this done in the Byzantine Churches.

It just seems to me that you are trying to add something to the reception of the Eucharist that is not there.

Just like those who want to hold hands during the Our Father because they think it shows communion.

The reception of the Eucharist is where we as a church show communion. This is not a place to show the spousal commuion of a couple. It might be “cute” but as I said, I think it is out of place in this instance.

 

[Tedster]

RichT:

In regards to the GIRM, there is nothing written in it that says anything about spouses receiving together. See for yourself, usccb.org/liturgy/current/revmissalisromanien.htm

My comment on the GIRM was not to imply that there was, only a statement that I try to follow as closely as possible. I still think that when we decided what we can and cannot do, that spurs “liturgical abuse” because we, through our actions, make others believe they can do the same. That is what I believe this does, right or wrong.

I have said it once and I will say it again, there are some who are being a little too judgemental in regards to this topic. To judge someone based on an opinion and not on fact is entirely wrong.

I don’t call it judgemental. In no way am I judging. I am merely saying that I would rather be cautious than liberal. Being apathetic and not questioning certain practices has led us to our present problems with abuses, IMHO.

 

[RichT]

Tedster:

My comment on the GIRM was not to imply that there was, only a statement that I try to follow as closely as possible. I still think that when we decided what we can and cannot do, that spurs “liturgical abuse” because we, through our actions, make others believe they can do the same. That is what I believe this does, right or wrong.
I don’t call it judgemental. In no way am I judging. I am merely saying that I would rather be cautious than liberal. Being apathetic and not questioning certain practices has led us to our present problems with abuses, IMHO.

First of all, I did not intend to p(name removed by moderator)oint you with the comment about being judgemental. It ia a blanket statement regarding what I have seen throughout this entire thread. My apologies.

In regards to the GIRM, my point is simple. These couples don’t appear to be following or not following the GIRM as this is not addressed by it. I can only speak for myself when I say I am not trying to add anything or to take anything away from the liturgy. I simply find a great joy in receiving the Eucharist,and I don’t see a problem in showing a little love and respect for my wife by waiting for her. I posted early on that I don’t make it a habit of standing right next to her. I don’t touch her or put my arm around her. I simply move to the side and wait until she has received and then allow her to step in front of me as we return to our seats. Is this a liberal thing to do? I don’t know. I don’t think the word liberal has anything to do with it.

 

[RichT]

ByzCath:

You walk up, you are given the Eucharist and you move on.

As I asked earlier, show me this in writing and I will re-think my position.

ByzCath:

I do not see how this could even develope.

It was started and is still encouraged by the Worldwide Marriage Encounter.

ByzCath:

I do not think you will ever see this done in the Byzantine Churches.

Then this shouldn’t even be an issue for you.

ByzCath:

Just like those who want to hold hands during the Our Father because they think it shows communion.

I epsecially like the way we all squeeze each other’s hands just before letting go.

ByzCath:

The reception of the Eucharist is where we as a church show communion. This is not a place to show the spousal commuion of a couple. It might be “cute” but as I said, I think it is out of place in this instance.

You have the right to think what you want, but you do not know that the intention of the couple is to show anybody anything. Perhaps this showing of the spousal communion is meant for each other and not for the rest of the church. This goes back to people who are too busy looking at what others are doing.

 

[Tedster]

RichT:

First of all, I did not intend to p(name removed by moderator)oint you with the comment about being judgemental. It ia a blanket statement regarding what I have seen throughout this entire thread. My apologies.

No apologies needed! I didn’t take it as an attack, but wanted to be clear that it was not my intent to judge.

RichT:

In regards to the GIRM, my point is simple. These couples don’t appear to be following or not following the GIRM as this is not addressed by it. I can only speak for myself when I say I am not trying to add anything or to take anything away from the liturgy. I simply find a great joy in receiving the Eucharist,and I don’t see a problem in showing a little love and respect for my wife by waiting for her. I posted early on that I don’t make it a habit of standing right next to her. I don’t touch her or put my arm around her. I simply move to the side and wait until she has received and then allow her to step in front of me as we return to our seats. Is this a liberal thing to do? I don’t know. I don’t think the word liberal has anything to do with it.

That’s fine in your case. I don’t think your intent is to create an abuse and your reasons are nobel, but what happens if the next person says, “I don’t see anything wrong with doing it this way…” and we keep getting farther away from the traditional way of doing it?

I agree with ByzCath on this one, traditions in the Church are to be upheld as strongly as any other truth. This action is a modern thing that has been introduced for whatever reason, not something that was practice throughout Church history. Again, this is all MY OPINION for what it’s worth.

 

[Ham1]

I don’t suppose there is any clear violation of the couple standing side by side and receiving Communion. However, they must receive directly from the minister of Communion and the minister of Communion must not embellish or change the words in anyway. He must simply say, “The Body (Blood) of Christ.” The priest who was adding words is clearly in violation of the rubrics.

The main question that ought to be asked is what does this symbolize and is it appropriate. I would say that having two individuals stand apart from the community to receive in a different manner alters the uniformity of Communion. The Bishops and the US bishops in particular put a great deal of emphasis on our reception of Communion as a uniform community of believers. Also, the communion line is a procession that should not be altered.

Ultimately, although this variation is not explicitly condemned in the GIRM or in Redemptionis Sacramentum, it does not mean that it can be added. There are precise gestures and postures which are required by us in the Mass and it is not really appropriate for us to begin adding gestures that were not indicated by the Church.

 

[Ham1]

RichT:

First of all, I did not intend to p(name removed by moderator)oint you with the comment about being judgemental. It ia a blanket statement regarding what I have seen throughout this entire thread. My apologies.

In regards to the GIRM, my point is simple. These couples don’t appear to be following or not following the GIRM as this is not addressed by it. I can only speak for myself when I say I am not trying to add anything or to take anything away from the liturgy. I simply find a great joy in receiving the Eucharist,and I don’t see a problem in showing a little love and respect for my wife by waiting for her. I posted early on that I don’t make it a habit of standing right next to her. I don’t touch her or put my arm around her. I simply move to the side and wait until she has received and then allow her to step in front of me as we return to our seats. Is this a liberal thing to do? I don’t know. I don’t think the word liberal has anything to do with it.

Just a thought, but perhaps a more convenient and courteous way would be to allow your wife to precede you in line for Communion. That way she would receive before you.

God Bless You!

 

[Tedster]

RichT:

I epsecially like the way we all squeeze each other’s hands just before letting go.

I think Karl’s statement here would challenge both of your practices Rich. This was originally posted by Karl Keating on the holding of hands during the Our Father.

"The holding of hands during the Our Father is not expressly forbidden, but then actions that should not be performed are not given in a List of Forbidden Actions. That’s not the way rubrics work.

Rubrics are presecriptive. They tell you what you are to do, not what you are not to do. If something is not listed in the rubrics, then you should not do it. One example is hand holding. Since the rubrics nowhere allow hand holding, the conclusion is that one should not engage in it during Mass.

Although there is no explicit prohibition of hand holding during the Our Father (just as there is no express prohibition of singing aloud the lyrics of ‘The Music Man’ during the Consecration), the practice in effect is prohibited because there is no positive provision for it."

 

[robertaf]

Good Morning Church

I think I mentioned I am new here.

Is this thread pretty typical of what Catholic Answers is all about? I ask this for a specific reason. I came here from another Discussion group that I had been with for 3 years. I have encouraged quite a number of friends to follow.

I seem to be seeing a lot of folks who are really tied up in rules and regulations. I mean to the extreme where they are watching, waiting to pounce on the first person they percieve as an offender.

I am asking this in the true spirit of good will. I hope you accept it as such.

 

[RichT]

Ham1:

Just a thought, but perhaps a more convenient and courteous way would be to allow your wife to precede you in line for Communion. That way she would receive before you.

God Bless You!

Sometimes she does precede me and when she does she waits for me.

 

[RichT]

Tedster:

I think Karl’s statement here would challenge both of your practices Rich. This was originally posted by Karl Keating on the holding of hands during the Our Father.

My comment on the squeezing was meant to lighten things up a little.

As far as the other being a practice, it’s not like I sat down one day and looked for a place in the liturgy where I could add one of my own practices. This is just something that came naturaly for my wife and I. We do it simply out of love and respect for each other. End of story.

 

[RichT]

robertaf:

Good Morning Church

I think I mentioned I am new here.

Is this thread pretty typical of what Catholic Answers is all about? I ask this for a specific reason. I came here from another Discussion group that I had been with for 3 years. I have encouraged quite a number of friends to follow.

I seem to be seeing a lot of folks who are really tied up in rules and regulations. I mean to the extreme where they are watching, waiting to pounce on the first person they percieve as an offender.

I am asking this in the true spirit of good will. I hope you accept it as such.

I have often felt in the few days I have been posting here that this site should be re-named liturgicalpolice.com. Where can a person go to simply take part in a simple discussion where they don’t have to defend themselves everytime they post somehing? I practice a simple philosophy. If it bother’s me directly I wil say something, otherwise that is best left to the higher up’s. I used to say things about how other’s dresses or should I say didn’t dress to attend mass. It didn’t take long to realize I was allowing it to be a distraction to my experience of the mass. That’s my fault, not the person who chose to dress that way. I’m not saying that we should simply ignore the abuses that do go on in our church, but attacking people in this forum is not going to solve anything. It will only breed frustration between us as brother’s and sister’s in Christ. When I meet a Christian from another faith, I don’t automatically make a judgement that everything they do in thier church is wrong. I don’t tell that my church is better, or that their church is in anyway inferior to mine. I listen to them, and then share with them the differences in my faith, and hopefully I do it in such a loving way that they will ask questions and want to learn more.
I will say that other forum I used to frequent at least has a specific place for debate. Otherwise you must be careful not to attack or give the impression of an attack on another person. Maybe that should be the rule here.

 

[robertaf]

Greetings

I liked your answer. I agree with it, too.
When I am at Mass, I am so immersed in the Prayers and the Holy Eucharist, I barely notice anything, at all.

I raised horses for 35 years and found it easier to go to early Mass in (clean) jeans. I understand one person went to Father and complained. He shut her down fast, saying “at least she comes to Mass before going to work”.
Sounds like you came over from Beliefnet, too.

 

[Tedster]

robertaf:

Is this thread pretty typical of what Catholic Answers is all about?

I think so. There was a poll on another forum asking what made you join this forum, and at the time I read it, the overwhelming reason was that people wanted to learn their faith. I would not look at our responses as an attack on you personally or judgemental (which it DEFINITELY is not either), but rather a discussion leading each other to the truths of the Faith. If you are right, and I am wrong, then I will know my faith better because of this discussion, and vice versa.

I seem to be seeing a lot of folks who are really tied up in rules and regulations. I mean to the extreme where they are watching, waiting to pounce on the first person they percieve as an offender.

I think this is because many of us (I myself am one) feel strongly that Satan is attacking the Church and, in particular, the Holy Mass through liturgical abuses. He is “weakening” our ability to understand one of the most important parts of our faith. There have been many studies done on the percentage of Catholics who do not believe in the “real presence” of Christ, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, in the most Holy Eucharist. I personally believe that one of the main reasons for this is liturgical abuse. So if I appear to be caught up in “rules and regulations” that is why. I will defend my faith (or be justly corrected) any time I feel the need. Please understand that it is in all of our interest that I “discuss”.

 

[Tedster]

RichT:

If it bother’s me directly I wil say something, otherwise that is best left to the higher up’s. I used to say things about how other’s dresses or should I say didn’t dress to attend mass. It didn’t take long to realize I was allowing it to be a distraction to my experience of the mass. That’s my fault, not the person who chose to dress that way.

Isn’t that kind of a selfish attitude? We are all THE MYSTICAL BODY OF CHRIST. When someone does something that hurts any of my brothers and sisters, not just me, then I feel the need to correct it. Peoples actions in Mass can affect more than just me and you, they effect the WHOLE Body of Christ. Simply turning my head, and not letting it bother me is not an acceptable solution to me. That is APATHY.

If taking this stand makes me the “liturgical police”, I am sorry you feel that way. But didn’t Christ himself admonish those who were not living according to the law? Shouldn’t we all try to correct wrongs? I have been “corrected” MANY times , but can only thank those who do, since it leads me closer to the Truth.

attacking people in this forum is not going to solve anything. It will only breed frustration between us as brother’s and sister’s in Christ.

Please read my previous post (I am NOT trying to attack anyone, only discuss).

 

[Ham1]

Just to be clear…I am sure everyone here has the best intentions and I am absolutely certain that most of you are smarter and holier than me.

This is a good discussion. Rather than just doing what we feel like doing, we are examining whether our actions are appropriate or not. In this case, as I have stated above, I believe that altering the communion procession to make some sort of symbol about marriage is inappropriate. IF this sort of act was something sanctioned by the Church, it would be stated that way by the Church. It’s not and so we ought to abide by her directives on the proper posture and procession to Communion.

I know several people have decried a seeming over-emphasis on “rules and regulations.” We must remember though that these “rules and regulations” are given to us by the bride of Christ, the Holy Church. We can be confident that the rules that we are asked to follow are the rules of Christ Himself.

Think of it this way, if Jesus appeared to you and said, “Please, process to Communion in this way, bow, receive my Body and return to your pew.” Would you respond, “Oh Jesus, no thanks! We are so in love and have such a holy marriage that we want to receive your Body OUR way and not YOUR way.”

It is Jesus Christ who specifies through His Church the proper manner in which we ought to receive him. It is not our place to decide that we should add something else to his ritual or change it in any way.

God bless you.

 

[robertaf]

Greetings Church

It would be easier for me to accept your explaination had I not spent time in a few threads regarding the Charismatic Renewal. The Charismatic Mass was considered to be a liturgical abuse and the Prayer meetings really put down and in at least one case the Charismatic gifts accredited to Satan.

It was pointed out that the Holy Father approved and in fact encouraged the Charismatic Renewal and we were told, “the Pope is not always right”.

In one case the Church is right and in another the Holy Father is wrong?

Why does this look selective to me?

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

robertaf:

Greetings Church

It would be easier for me to accept your explaination had I not spent time in a few threads regarding the Charismatic Renewal. The Charismatic Mass was considered to be a liturgical abuse and the Prayer meetings really put down and in at least one case the Charismatic gifts accredited to Satan.

It was pointed out that the Holy Father approved and in fact encouraged the Charismatic Renewal and we were told, “the Pope is not always right”.

In one case the Church is right and in another the Holy Father is wrong?

Why does this look selective to me?

Well I can only answer for myself but I would look at it this way. One is the teaching of the Church spelt out in the rubrics which tell us what we should be doing and we should not add to that.

The other is the opinion of the Holy Father which we are free to disagree with.

 

[RichT]

Tedster:

Isn’t that kind of a selfish attitude? We are all THE MYSTICAL BODY OF CHRIST. When someone does something that hurts any of my brothers and sisters, not just me, then I feel the need to correct it. Peoples actions in Mass can affect more than just me and you, they effect the WHOLE Body of Christ. Simply turning my head, and not letting it bother me is not an acceptable solution to me. That is APATHY.

So, do you approach the person youyself and attempt to correct the problem? I feel strongly that job belongs to the people in charge at my parish. And yes, if I witness something that is harmful to other’s, I will not hesitate to bring it to someone’s attention. When my family and I attended a Thursday evening mass that was to be followed by a welcome to the new families and an opportunity to register, I was approached by a greeter during mass who offered to take my two year old outside. Apparently the small noise she made bothered the greeter. Needless to say I was rather offended and promptly phoned the church office the next morning. I didn’t see any benefit in my addressing the person myself. I realize this is not something that falls under the category of liturgical abuse, although I had a hard time focusing on the homily afterwords, but it is just to illustrate a point. No apathy here my friend.

Tedster:

If taking this stand makes me the “liturgical police”, I am sorry you feel that way. But didn’t Christ himself admonish those who were not living according to the law? Shouldn’t we all try to correct wrongs? I have been “corrected” MANY times , but can only thank those who do, since it leads me closer to the Truth.

Please read my previous post (I am NOT trying to attack anyone, only discuss).

Again Tedster, I am not pointing fingers at you in general. I am simply stating that this forum has a feel about it. Quite often it feels like being attacked. I have read many posts in the few days I have been posting here and have seen some pretty harsh personal attacks on people that have started from discussions about a certain practice, or a certain thought, etc…

If I were to have found this forum when I was discerning whether or not to become catholic, I might have thought twice considering the state of mind I was in at that time. It looks to many like there is a lot of division in our church when they read from forums like this. I just think we all need to be a little more cautious with the words we choose to write. Again, I am just talking in general about the “feel” of this forum, not about anyone person.

I will say, I have appreciated the discussion between you and I a great deal. It has not gone to the negative as many of the discussions I have been invloved in.

God Bless…