Spread of Islam in Indian sub-continent

[cathopologist]

Isn’t references of the Quran, and what it tells us do enough?
I have explained the logical reasons in the other thread ‘Ask about Islam 2’

Alas, those ‘peaceful’ references only apply to the few (practising Muslims). The majority use it to their advantage to bully non-Muslims.

I can also say the same if you want, Muslims have been discriminated in Non-Muslim countries too?
We can’t argue over this because it happens all around the world.
But we can only judge religions from its base.

I’m sure Muslims have faced some level of discrimination in non-Muslim lands. It is still relatively lower than non-Muslims face when in Muslim lands. I have had friends going to the Gulf and mocked simply for their skin colour or religion. Also, Muslims in non-Muslim lands have better protection (without paying any ridiculous, humiliating taxes) than non-Muslim habitants in Muslim lands. Yet, as recent history points out, Muslims find all sorts of excuses to wage war with the infidel in their own land.

Since we are on the subject of discrimination, why not allow churches and synagogues built in Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Algeria or Yemen? Muslims enjoy such privileges in non-Muslim lands. Why don’t you guys return the favour? There is no compulsion in religion, remember?

 

[Submission]

Alas, those ‘peaceful’ references only apply to the few (practising Muslims). The majority use it to their advantage to bully non-Muslims.

I’m sure Muslims have faced some level of discrimination in non-Muslim lands. It is still relatively lower than non-Muslims face when in Muslim lands. I have had friends going to the Gulf and mocked simply for their skin colour or religion. Also, Muslims in non-Muslim lands have better protection (without paying any ridiculous, humiliating taxes) than non-Muslim habitants in Muslim lands. Yet, as recent history points out, Muslims find all sorts of excuses to wage war with the infidel in their own land.

Since we are on the subject of discrimination, why not allow churches and synagogues built in Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Algeria or Yemen? Muslims enjoy such privileges in non-Muslim lands. Why don’t you guys return the favour? There is no compulsion in religion, remember?

On your first paragraph, all I can say to you is that these things happen all around the world and it should be condemned.

It is only Saudi Arabia which does not promote building Churches, but now recently an agreement passed through the King Abdullah and the Pope in order to build a Church for the Christians in Saudi Arabia.

Muslims have never complained about the fact that the Vatican State in and near-Rome would not accept a mosque or synagogue on its sacred territory either.

I am asking you generally and I do not mistake me for complaining, why is it like that? I think this is also discrimination as you said?

 

[LDNCatholic]

Muslims have never complained about the fact that the Vatican State in and near-Rome would not accept a mosque or synagogue on its sacred territory either.

I am asking you generally and I do not mistake me for complaining, why is it like that? I think this is also discrimination as you said?

No, but certain Muslims have bowed to conquer the Holy See.

There will never be a mosque in the Vatican as it is the administrative centre of the Catholic Church, and as such there is no need for Muslims to live there as nearly all of the residents are Catholic clergy.

Saudi Arabia on the other hand, does have Christians within its borders.

 

[Submission]

No, but certain Muslims have bowed to conquer the Holy See.

There will never be a mosque in the Vatican as it is the administrative centre of the Catholic Church, and as such there is no need for Muslims to live there as nearly all of the residents are Catholic clergy.

Saudi Arabia on the other hand, does have Christians within its borders.

I can see clear discrimination on the pathways, why?
Atleast Saudi Arabia allows Christians to live and practice their religion freely in its lands compared to the Vatican State which condemns such a thing in its own land?
Double standards?

 

[LDNCatholic]

I can see clear discrimination on the pathways, why?
Atleast Saudi Arabia allows Christians to live and practice their religion freely in its lands compared to the Vatican State which condemns such a thing in its own land?
Double standards?

The Vatican State is only for the administration of the Catholic Church.

May a Catholic live in Mecca, an area of equal size to the Holy See? For that matter, Muslims are welcome to come to the Holy See, may I partake in a holiday to Mecca?

And as for the free practice of religion in Saudi Arabia, when I hear news of a Catholic Cathedral in Saudi Arabia I may be inclined to believe you, until then, religious liberty in the Kingdom is a fantasy.

 

[LDNCatholic]

While we are at it, Muslims do not have to hand in their Qur’ans at the gates of the Vatican should they choose to visit. Can Saudi Arabia say the same about Christians and Bibles/Rosaries/Crucifixes?

How about Hindus? May they set up statues of their gods? May they build a Mandir?

 

[Submission]

While we are at it, Muslims do not have to hand in their Qur’ans at the gates of the Vatican should they choose to visit. Can Saudi Arabia say the same about Christians and Bibles/Rosaries/Crucifixes?

How about Hindus? May they set up statues of their gods? May they build a Mandir?

They are allowed to practice their religion but not publicly, what about in the Vatican State, they are not even allowed to live there?

 

[LDNCatholic]

They are allowed to practice their religion but not publicly, what about in the Vatican State, they are not even allowed to live there?

They may, for a short time, if they so choose, while on diplomatic business, however most Catholics are not allowed to live there either. It is not as large a country as Saudi Arabia, which is more than capable of supporting the religious rights of the Christians and Hindus that already live there. There is no room for new houses, it cannot support new people, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Sikh, Atheist, Agnostic, Satanist, Jain, Mormon, Jehovah’s Witness, whatever you like. Unless you have business within the Catholic Church (usually one would be clergy, as most of the residents are, or military, as the rest are) then there is no need for you to live there and if you do not live there then you cannot ask for a place of worship. It is an administrative centre for the Catholic Church. I ask again, may I as a Catholic, move to Mecca?

However…

Should a Muslim be staying at the Vatican, or near it, and decide it is time to pray, then he may take the gruelling 20 minute walk to one of Rome’s Masjids. Or a taxi if he prefers.

A Catholic must recieve the Sacraments, something which must be delivered by an ordained Catholic priest in communion with the Holy See, or, in extreme cases, by an ordained priest of the Orthodox faith. How many of those are allowed to live in Saudi Arabia?

 

[cathopologist]

It is only Saudi Arabia which does not promote building Churches, but now recently an agreement passed through the King Abdullah and the Pope in order to build a Church for the Christians in Saudi Arabia.

Action speaks louder than words.

Muslims have never complained about the fact that the Vatican State in and near-Rome would not accept a mosque or synagogue on its sacred territory either.

The Vatican is the representative of the Church on earth. Common sense also tells you that Mecca would never allow churches be built there for the same reasons. There are mosques and synagogues outside the walls of the Vatican. Can you say the same for the walls outside Al-Haram?

I am asking you generally and I do not mistake me for complaining, why is it like that? I think this is also discrimination as you said?

It is discriminatory when double-standards are practiced.

 

[Submission]

Action speaks louder than words.

**The Vatican is the representative of the Church on earth. Common sense also tells you that Mecca would never allow churches be built there for the same reasons. **There are mosques and synagogues outside the walls of the Vatican. Can you say the same for the walls outside Al-Haram?

It is discriminatory when double-standards are practiced.

You are correct regarding the common sense part, which I accept. The common sense theory also applies in the Holy Places of Makkah and Medina.

 

[LDNCatholic]

You are correct regarding the common sense part, which I accept. The common sense theory also applies in the Holy Places of Makkah and Medina.

Good good, then we are in agreement. I think a Cathedral in Jeddah would be absolutely fantastic, how about the rest of you?

 

[KingAlfred]

“Spread of Islam in Indian sub-continent”

I think the Hindu community will always fight back. That’s an old feud that produced Pakistan as a break-away nation. We should back the Hindus all the way.

 

[Submission]

Good good, then we are in agreement. I think a Cathedral in Jeddah would be absolutely fantastic, how about the rest of you?

It also depends on the Christian population as well, none of those Coptic Christians have complained regarding Churches, neither of them who have been Christians for generations ever complained about force?
They worship at home freely like in other Muslim countries, there are loads of Churches and other places of worship in many Muslim countries.

 

[Submission]

“Spread of Islam in Indian sub-continent”

I think the Hindu community will always fight back. That’s an old feud that produced Pakistan as a break-away nation. We should back the Hindus all the way.

The Muslims created Pakistan to protect the dignity and respect of Islam which was maligned by Hindus. Muslims were discriminated everywhere in India and had always been a victim of injustice. This is one of the reason why Pakistan was created. As you can see what happened during the Gujarat Riots which I can suggest as the truth regarding what happened in Pre-1947 times too.

 

[LDNCatholic]

It also depends on the Christian population as well, none of those Coptic Christians have complained regarding Churches, neither of them who have been Christians for generations ever complained about force?
They worship at home freely like in other Muslim countries, there are loads of Churches and other places of worship in many Muslim countries.

But that is not the ideal situation. They need priests to administer the Sacraments. Also, the 800,000 or so Filipino Catholics and the 500,000 or so Indian Catholics need Sacraments administered by a priest. I believe numbers of over 1 million would require at least one Cathedral and several hundred churches.

Also, people do complain, but they can’t do it in Saudi Arabia can they? Not with those pesky religious police there to catch them trying to ‘‘spread Christianity’’.

 

[Submission]

But that is not the ideal situation. They need priests to administer the Sacraments. Also, the 800,000 or so Filipino Catholics and the 500,000 or so Indian Catholics need Sacraments administered by a priest. I believe numbers of over 1 million would require at least one Cathedral and several hundred churches.

Also, people do complain, but they can’t do it in Saudi Arabia can they? Not with those pesky religious police there to catch them trying to ‘‘spread Christianity’’.

The agreement is there, InshAllah Christians and other minorities would be treated well like they have always been treated. As I said before, if they were treated badly why are they living there in the first place?

 

[LDNCatholic]

The agreement is there, InshAllah Christians and other minorities would be treated well like they have always been treated. As I said before, if they were treated badly why are they living there in the first place?

Well, there is the small matter of domestic slavery of Filipino maids (not to mention the previous atrocities of little Pakistani slave jockies for the camel racing), often they come seeking a better life but are unable to return home due to the cruelty of their employer or by not being able to afford the travel cost.

Why do Muslims move to the West if the West is such an oppressive place? Why are there any Muslims in the UK, or the US?

 

[cathopologist]

You are correct regarding the common sense part, which I accept. The common sense theory also applies in the Holy Places of Makkah and Medina.

Common sense also tells me Dome of the Rock should never have been constructed in the Holy Land, since it is the birthplace of Judaism and Christianity. Islam was borne in Mecca and Mohammad wasn’t there apart from a mythical tale in the Qur’an.

The Crusaders should have invaded Makkah and Medina and constructed churches there too. All they needed to do was to make a claim about a Christian saint buried there. Do you agree? I mean, its only fair, right?

 

[cathopologist]

Good good, then we are in agreement. I think a Cathedral in Jeddah would be absolutely fantastic, how about the rest of you?

 

[cathopologist]

The Muslims created Pakistan to protect the dignity and respect of Islam which was maligned by Hindus. Muslims were discriminated everywhere in India and had always been a victim of injustice. This is one of the reason why Pakistan was created. As you can see what happened during the Gujarat Riots which I can suggest as the truth regarding what happened in Pre-1947 times too.

The Moghuls invaded India, breached the trust of Hindus repeatedly, disrespected their hospitality and places of worship, ransacked, murdered and raped everywhere they went. If Muslims were ‘discriminated’ against, why are many of India’s top Bollywood actors Muslim? Why are many of India’s top musicians also Muslim? India is the world’s largest democratic nation. Do you understand what Democracy means?

Gujerat Riots myths: Muslims were ‘butchered’ in Gujarat

Fact: As we have seen in a couple of earlier chapters, Muslims were equally on the offensive, at least after the first three days. Muslims killed Hindus brutally in Himmatnagar, Danilimda, and Sindhi Market and other areas of Ahmedabad.

The Hindu reported that as early as 1st March 2002 itself, Muslims started violence in Ahmedabad. (See The Hindu’s report on this subject in its issue dated 2nd March 2002). Reports of The Hindu on this subject throughout the months of March and April 2002 make it clear that Muslims were on the offensive, called the shots in many areas, drove out Hindus from their houses, started the riots in many cases. India* Today’*s report on this subject in its issue dated 15 April 2002 also points out this same thing.

Around 40,000 Hindus were forced to take shelter in refugee camps. The Dalits suffered almost as much as the Muslims in the riots, only at the hands of the Muslims. On 21 March 2002, 50 Hindu shops were burnt in Ahmedabad’s Revdi Bazaar that caused a loss of 15 crore rupees.

The Muslims attacked the Hindus on 1st and 2nd March 2002 as well. They are on record starting as many as 157 riots in Gujarat after 3rd March 2002. They did not allow the police and the Army to search for criminals in their areas. They pelted the police and even the Army with bullets and stones, when they arrived to conduct search operations in Muslim areas. The Muslim women formed human chains and cut off power at night so that the criminals could flee with weapons from the Army.

Three judgments of different courts in Gujarat have sentenced some Muslims for rioting in Ahmedabad and Vadodara, post Godhra. On one occasion, 7 Muslims and on another occasion, 9 Muslims were convicted and punished for rioting and killing after Godhra. This will be seen in detail later.

The conviction of Muslims proves that Muslims were equally on the offensive-and not the cattle hiding from the slaughter house that the media makes them out to be.