Spritual existence prior to conception?

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How can I respond to a claim that human persons exist spiritually before conception? It was worded akin to “…babies exist spiritually before they are conceived and pray for their parents…” It would be helpful if there is some Church document that addresses this matter.
Thank you,
Kings Daughter
 
Kings_Daughter said:
How can I respond to a claim that human persons exist spiritually before conception? It was worded akin to “…babies exist spiritually before they are conceived and pray for their parents…” It would be helpful if there is some Church document that addresses this matter.
Thank you,
Kings Daughter
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I don’t think there is any textual prove of that. Actually, what I understand is that conception is when the mirrical of life starts.
 
Roelblomsma,
I agree that human life begins at conception.🙂
Thank you.
Kings Daughter
 
DCNBILL,
Thank you for the link to the article.
Are you (or anyone else) aware of anything that addresses life BEFORE conception?
Ancient heresy?
Theological musings?

Thank you,
Kings Daughter
 
Kings_Daughter said:
DCNBILL,
Thank you for the link to the article.
Are you (or anyone else) aware of anything that addresses life BEFORE conception?
Ancient heresy?
Theological musings?

Thank you,
Kings Daughter
Click to expand...
This is a Mormon belief. They believe they are spirit children before birth.
 
Miriam,
The claim that I am trying to refute comes from a book by a woman in Ireland that says she is able to see angels and has from infancy. My mother is reading this book and is of the mind that “because-the-angels-told-whatshername-it-must-be-true”.
I was not aware that Mormons held such a belief. I don’t know if this woman is Mormon, but my impression is that she had been raised Catholic.

Anyone else on documentation that expressly denies that we exist as spiritual beings BEFORE conception?

Thank you,
Kings Daughter
 
Kings_Daughter said:
Miriam,
The claim that I am trying to refute comes from a book by a woman in Ireland that says she is able to see angels and has from infancy. My mother is reading this book and is of the mind that “because-the-angels-told-whatshername-it-must-be-true”.
I was not aware that Mormons held such a belief. I don’t know if this woman is Mormon, but my impression is that she had been raised Catholic.

Anyone else on documentation that expressly denies that we exist as spiritual beings BEFORE conception?

Thank you,
Kings Daughter
Click to expand...
Note that angels are spiritual beings apart from human beings.

Angels were created by God in the spiritual realm and they are not “souls” that will eventually become joined to a human body.

A human soul is a creation by God that is created and joined to the human at conception.
 
DCNBILL,
That is my understanding.

Thank you,
Kings Daughter
 
Kings_Daughter said:
Miriam,
The claim that I am trying to refute comes from a book by a woman in Ireland that says she is able to see angels and has from infancy. My mother is reading this book and is of the mind that “because-the-angels-told-whatshername-it-must-be-true”.
I was not aware that Mormons held such a belief. I don’t know if this woman is Mormon, but my impression is that she had been raised Catholic.

Anyone else on documentation that expressly denies that we exist as spiritual beings BEFORE conception?

Thank you,
Kings Daughter
Click to expand...
Completely different from what I understood your original post to be about. Mormons don’t believe they were angels before birth. They believe they were spirits.

Do you know the title of the book or the name of the woman who says she sees angels?
 
Miriam,
Her name is Lorna Byrne and she has 2 books.
Angels in My Hair and Stairway to Heaven.
I’m not sure which book it is in.

I don’t believe that she claims that babies are angels.
She says they exist spiritually and actively pray for their parents against
abortion, abuse, etc.

Thank you,
Kings Daughter
 
Kings_Daughter said:
Miriam,
Her name is Lorna Byrne and she has 2 books.
Angels in My Hair and Stairway to Heaven.
I’m not sure which book it is in.

I don’t believe that she claims that babies are angels.
She says they exist spiritually and actively pray for their parents against
abortion, abuse, etc.

Thank you,
Kings Daughter
Click to expand...
These are links to interviews with her.

telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/3556574/Lorna-Byrne-To-me-seeing-angels-is-natural.html

dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1094367/Mystic-Lorna-Byrne–woman-says-ANGELS.html

This is her website.

lornabyrne.com/indexUsa.html

This is a thread right here on this forum. I find that one the most interesting.

From the thread: . . . .A third concern surrounds the comments in her book which states that a soul chooses his/her destiny, including their parents, prior to their birth.

That sounds Mormon not Catholic and yet she claims she is a Catholic but doesn’t attend mass regularly.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=355637

Hope these help.
 
Miriam,

Wow! Thanks for the info!
Now if I could just get an authoritative statement from a Church
document on spiritual existence prior to conception. I guess I’ll
keep looking.

Thanks again.
Kings Daughter
 
DCNBILL said:
…A human soul is a creation by God that is created and joined to the human at conception.
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close 🙂 The soul is created and joined to the body at conception to form a human… a human ain’t a human without both a soul and body!

So to answer the OP’s question, no, a human soul doesn’t exist before conception, because a human doesn’t exist before conception!
 
runningdude said:
close 🙂 The soul is created and joined to the body at conception to form a human… a human ain’t a human without both a soul and body!

So to answer the OP’s question, no, a human soul doesn’t exist before conception, because a human doesn’t exist before conception!
Click to expand...
🙂 Ok if you really want to get picky then the soul is created and joined to the fertilized egg at conception.😃
 
DCNBILL said:
🙂 Ok if you really want to get picky then the soul is created and joined to the fertilized egg at conception.😃
Click to expand...
The idea that the souls of yet to be born babies were in heaven waiting to be born is what Origen was condemned for. I believe the heresy is called ensoulment.
 
ciero said:
The idea that the souls of yet to be born babies were in heaven waiting to be born is what Origen was condemned for. I believe the heresy is called ensoulment.
Click to expand...
He was condemned for that? I thought it was Universalism! Well, you learn something new every day at CAF!
 
DCNBILL said:
🙂 Ok if you really want to get picky then the soul is created and joined to the fertilized egg at conception.😃
Click to expand...
Not quite. St. Thomas Aquinas says that the human soul is created the instant that Form is combined with Primary Matter. Form is, essentially, who we are; Primary Matter is the fundamental matter of the material realm. So, nothing is joined to an ovum. Human gametes are the aspects these two principle causes assume in the material universe.

Sorry, that was rather poorly written. 😊

God bless,
jd
 
JDaniel said:
Not quite. St. Thomas Aquinas says that the human soul is created the instant that Form is combined with Primary Matter. Form is, essentially, who we are; Primary Matter is the fundamental matter of the material realm. So, nothing is joined to an ovum. Human gametes are the aspects these two principle causes assume in the material universe.

Sorry, that was rather poorly written. 😊

God bless,
jd
Click to expand...
I am sure that Saint Thomas, if he had access to the science of today, would agree with the Church that human life begins at conception.👍
 
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