Spying or Responsible Parenting?

[pianistclare]

Tis not spying in a pejorative sense.

But is responsible parenting.

The only time a Parent cannot not listen in or check on a child …is the confessional.

(meaning of course regarding children who are not adults)

RIght. Also agreeing wholeheartedly with mommy k.

Those who make the huge leap to irrational spying likely have more to hide

Older “children” living at home should realize that they are living under someone else’s roof, spending someone else’s money for their “conveniences” and they have themselves put themselves at the mercy people who are supporting them.

Don’t like it? Move out.
But there’s more to love and life than keeping secrets, especially if you don’t have anything foul to hide. Safety. When people get older and have vulnerable children of their own? They’ll sing a way different song. It’s not a pretty world out there.
:twocents:

 

[Acolyte]

RIght. Also agreeing wholeheartedly with mommy k.

Those who make the huge leap to irrational spying likely have more to hide

Older “children” living at home should realize that they are living under someone else’s roof, spending someone else’s money for their “conveniences” and they have themselves put themselves at the mercy people who are supporting them.

Don’t like it? Move out.
But there’s more to love and life than keeping secrets, especially if you don’t have anything foul to hide. Safety. When people get older and have vulnerable children of their own? They’ll sing a way different song. It’s not a pretty world out there.
:twocents:

Exactly.

 

[Acolyte]

I live with family that use this kind of logic. to the point, that if I get a gift from someone and they don’t like the item, they will take it away from me. or if they don’t like the person that gave it to me, they will also take it away from me. I am an adult, by the way. all because of the claim that it’s their house and they don’t allow things that they don’t like.

I think a certain level of monitoring is definitely appropriately, the problem is, you can’t shield your kids forever, for example, in your friend’s case, the lgbtq movement is everywhere. the bigger problem that I see is that kids are not being taught much of their faith in the first place, and therefore have no defenses.

It is everywhere. It is insidious and it is diabolical. This particular girl was brought up strong in the Catholic faith by two passionate Catholic converts. She used to be heavy handed in her correction with her one and only boyfriend in matters of the faith. Up until recently her godfather was most adamant in his belief that she would one day become a saint. She was leading her millennial friends in Catholic bible study just two years ago. Don’t underestimate the power of evil. We do so to our own detriment. Lock down that Internet and check in every so often on the activity.

 

[E_7]

If you do trust them, then why do you feel the need to monitor their activities?

It’s not the child that we don’t trust. It’s the demons that we don’t trust. Our battles are against powers and principalities. As a spiritual warrior and good parent, I shall monitor and guard and do what I must to avoid the corruption of my child’s innocence. If the child loses his innocence thanks to some other peers, I have already done what I could.

 

[EasterJoy]

For a child under 18 for whom the parent is legally responsible, there is a lot less expectation of privacy. Spying is not spying in that case unless you don’t tell them not to expect privacy. If you tell them or imply to them that they have some sphere of privacy that you fully plan to violate, that is spying. You do not need to tell them how you plan to keep them under surveillance–that just gives the information they need to defeat you–but only need to let it be known that you have the right to keep them under surveillance and you aren’t giving it up.

An adult living in your home deserves the same amount of privacy whether it is your child or your parent. You have the right to do the amount of surveillance required to fulfill your diligence under the law, whatever the local law is. After that, they have the right to private communication–getting mail without it being opened and so on.

If you supply them with a phone or WiFi access, you have the right to keep their use of it under surveillance to the degree that they agree to when they accept the phone or WiFi access. You can’t spy on them without having told them you are maintaining your right to monitor all the electronic traffic you’re paying for. If you tell them that the price of using your phone and your internet service is to agree to monitoring as you see fit, however, they can take it or leave it. A cell phone and internet access is not a human right.

 

[EasterJoy]

It’s not the child that we don’t trust. It’s the demons that we don’t trust. Our battles are against powers and principalities. As a spiritual warrior and good parent, I shall monitor and guard and do what I must to avoid the corruption of my child’s innocence. If the child loses his innocence thanks to some other peers, I have already done what I could.

You don’t achieve good ends by wrong means, however. You cannot keep a “child” innocent past the age of 18 by interfering with decisions that are your child’s and not yours. You cannot protect someone else’s soul by the use of deceitful means such as spying on them while you imply that you respect their privacy.

Do not underestimate the use the Evil One can make of a legitimate sense of resentment over an abuse of authority, either. Many children preserved from evil by the force of will of their parents rather than by being brought to a genuine personal love of the good themselves go wild at their first opportunity. It is a shame that the colleges get all the blame for this, when so many of the students come ready to kick loose from their first day.

 

[Acolyte]

You don’t achieve good ends by wrong means, however. You cannot keep a “child” innocent past the age of 18 by interfering with decisions that are your child’s and not yours. You cannot protect someone else’s soul by the use of deceitful means such as spying on them while you imply that you respect their privacy.

Do not underestimate the use the Evil One can make of a legitimate sense of resentment over an abuse of authority, either. Many children preserved from evil by the force of will of their parents rather than by being brought to a genuine personal love of the good themselves go wild at their first opportunity. It is a shame that the colleges get all the blame for this, when so many of the students come ready to kick loose from their first day.

In my home, I am not being deceitful in the least. Posted on the family bulletin board is a notice that there is no ‘right to privacy’. If they want privacy, I recommend in that same post that they obtain 18 years of age, get a job, purchase a vehicle and then move out.

 

[twf]

Except a phone is not a luxury in this day and age, and at a certain point you need to have some faith that your child is going to use it responsibly. If you don’t trust them, then why are you giving them a phone? If you do trust them, then why do you feel the need to monitor their activities?

Parents also own the bathroom that their child uses, but that doesn’t give them the right to barge in to make sure their child isn’t masturbating or something like that.

You raise a very good point with that last point. If a father barged in on his teen or adult college aged daughter - in the bathroom or bedroom - under such a pretense - I wouldn’t hesitate to condemn him as a sexual abuser, property rights or not. As I noted earlier, paying for education or phones or whatnot does not make a parent the owner (in a master / slave type analogy) of their adult child. All adults have certain innate dignity and privacy must be respected. I repeat that is creepy and immoral for a parent to “spy” on an adult child. I can’t imagine any priest agreeing with such an approach. A minor is a different case, but even then there are limits - such as the bathroom example.

 

[angell1]

It is everywhere. It is insidious and it is diabolical. This particular girl was brought up strong in the Catholic faith by two passionate Catholic converts. She used to be heavy handed in her correction with her one and only boyfriend in matters of the faith. Up until recently her godfather was most adamant in his belief that she would one day become a saint. She was leading her millennial friends in Catholic bible study just two years ago. Don’t underestimate the power of evil. We do so to our own detriment. Lock down that Internet and check in every so often on the activity.

I’m sorry about your friend’s kid, it can happen even to the best. perhaps it is a case of the prodigal son.

I just don’t like this idea of the parents getting blamed if their kids don’t turn oug how they should sometimes. if there is neglect or apathy on their part, then maybe. but I thinkmost of the time, they try their bests, but parents can’t possibly shelter their kids from everything.

I’m not saying don’t take necessary precautions, obviously. but many parents do try their best and despite their best intentions, their kids still leave the faith. or some do and others don’t, raised by the same parents. this often causes families a lot of grief

it’s a difficult fine line sometimes with no good answers. I don’t have kids, so I have no idea what I would be doing. but in general, in answer to your original question, no, I wouldn’t equate parental monitoring of technology to spying.

 

[EasterJoy]

In my home, I am not being deceitful in the least. Posted on the family bulletin board is a notice that there is no ‘right to privacy’. If they want privacy, I recommend in that same post that they obtain 18 years of age, get a job, purchase a vehicle and then move out.

Yep. If they get busted for something illegal and you’re held responsible, nobody is letting you off because you were respecting their privacy.

An adult child who cannot move out for no fault of their own–such as a disability, for instance–should be given the respect of an adult, however. Parents who move in with their children should not be treated as children, either, just because they don’t have their names on the deed of the home they’re living in any more. The homeowner is still the homeowner, but giving adults the respect due to adults is still necessary for a harmonious home.

 

[angell1]

You don’t achieve good ends by wrong means, however. You cannot keep a “child” innocent past the age of 18 by interfering with decisions that are your child’s and not yours. You cannot protect someone else’s soul by the use of deceitful means such as spying on them while you imply that you respect their privacy.

Do not underestimate the use the Evil One can make of a legitimate sense of resentment over an abuse of authority, either. Many children preserved from evil by the force of will of their parents rather than by being brought to a genuine personal love of the good themselves go wild at their first opportunity. It is a shame that the colleges get all the blame for this, when so many of the students come ready to kick loose from their first day.

I agree with you easter Joy.

I have lost count of how many times I was told to obey some rule or other but without being told wy. it makes a big difference, for example, to know why pornography is really bad for you, as opposed to “mom and dad said so” or “the church says you’ll go to hell”. because it’s really much more than that

 

[E_7]

You don’t achieve good ends by wrong means, however. You cannot keep a “child” innocent past the age of 18 by interfering with decisions that are your child’s and not yours. You cannot protect someone else’s soul by the use of deceitful means such as spying on them while you imply that you respect their privacy.

Do not underestimate the use the Evil One can make of a legitimate sense of resentment over an abuse of authority, either. Many children preserved from evil by the force of will of their parents rather than by being brought to a genuine personal love of the good themselves go wild at their first opportunity. It is a shame that the colleges get all the blame for this, when so many of the students come ready to kick loose from their first day.

Excuse me, I was referring to a minor, not to an emancipated child. And I did not say spying, but monitoring and the child will be aware of that.

 

[Andrea_Day]

For a child under 18 for whom the parent is legally responsible, there is a lot less expectation of privacy. Spying is not spying in that case unless you don’t tell them not to expect privacy. If you tell them or imply to them that they have some sphere of privacy that you fully plan to violate, that is spying. You do not need to tell them how you plan to keep them under surveillance–that just gives the information they need to defeat you–but only need to let it be known that you have the right to keep them under surveillance and you aren’t giving it up.

An adult living in your home deserves the same amount of privacy whether it is your child or your parent. You have the right to do the amount of surveillance required to fulfill your diligence under the law, whatever the local law is. After that, they have the right to private communication–getting mail without it being opened and so on.

If you supply them with a phone or WiFi access, you have the right to keep their use of it under surveillance to the degree that they agree to when they accept the phone or WiFi access. You can’t spy on them without having told them you are maintaining your right to monitor all the electronic traffic you’re paying for. If you tell them that the price of using your phone and your internet service is to agree to monitoring as you see fit, however, they can take it or leave it. A cell phone and internet access is not a human right.

I would agree with this. I do think it is very wrong to promise or imply your teens will have privacy, and then violate it. Expect such violations to result in permanent loss of trust and your teen seeking internet sources outside the home/waiting to do whatever they please when they move out.

 

[Andrea_Day]

Parents also own the bathroom that their child uses, but that doesn’t give them the right to barge in to make sure their child isn’t masturbating or something like that.

That is an excellent point. Although sadly I know there are parents who would respond by saying kids have no bathroom/bedroom privacy either.

 

[Andrea_Day]

I have lost count of how many times I was told to obey some rule or other but without being told wy. it makes a big difference, for example, to know why pornography is really bad for you, as opposed to “mom and dad said so” or “the church says you’ll go to hell”. because it’s really much more than that

Amen.

And importantly, if “parents said no” is what keeps your teens away from porn (or anything else), guess what your teen will be doing when they move out.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

Amen.

And importantly, if “parents said no” is what keeps your teens away from porn (or anything else), guess what your teen will be doing when they move out.

This applies to a great many things. The decisions one makes add a young adult aren’t drastically different than one would make at 15-16.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

More importantly, I get that that parents are worried about social media and how they interact not with strangers but their peers. I sometimes wonder parental policing of these interactions affects ones social development.

 

[Acolyte]

More importantly, I get that that parents are worried about social media and how they interact not with strangers but their peers. I sometimes wonder parental policing of these interactions affects ones social development.

All I know is that in the case of my friend, it was his lack of policing that resulted in his family being divided and the resultant cross thrust upon all within it. He never knew that his daughter was SSA until a few days after she ran away from his home. He found out when he finally had a look at one of her online journals. What hurts him even more is that he was fully aware that she had had such a journal. In fact, he had opened up his Internet filter to allow it through due to her request over a year ago. He had confidence that there was nothing to worry about assuming as he had that his girl was strong in the faith. Sadly, he failed to check in every now and again. Had he done so, he would have seen the slow and steady decline over the past year or so in his daughter’s mental and emotional health. In person, she managed to hide her shift in morality and faith really well…

 

[EasterJoy]

Excuse me, I was referring to a minor, not to an emancipated child. And I did not say spying, but monitoring and the child will be aware of that.

In that case< my post is only a clarification of yours, not a correction.

 

[Bookcat]

Older “children” living at home should realize that they are living under someone else’s roof, spending someone else’s money for their “conveniences” and they have themselves put themselves at the mercy people who are supporting them.

Yes of course one can also set* rules of the house* - when adult children still reside in the nest…