Square circle revisited

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CeaselessMedik

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. Can God create a square circle?
A. No, it is logically a contradiction of concepts. God did not invent logic; even he has to follow it. A Trinity both Three in One is possible, though, as is being a man and God.
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  B. Yes, he can do anything. He could have made logic work such that we could be both free willed AND completely good, but instead made us flawed, holds us accountable for the sins we inevitably commit, and "sacrificed" himself to "save" us from ourselves, even though it was he who demanded that as the price of "salvation."
Is there a flaw here?
 
CeaselessMedik said:
. Can God create a square circle?
A. No, it is logically a contradiction of concepts. God did not invent logic; even he has to follow it. A Trinity both Three in One is possible, though, as is being a man and God.

B. Yes, he can do anything. He could have made logic work such that we could be both free willed AND completely good, but instead made us flawed, holds us accountable for the sins we inevitably commit, and “sacrificed” himself to “save” us from ourselves, even though it was he who demanded that as the price of “salvation.”

Is there a flaw here?
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Well, where to begin?

A square circle is a nonsensical impossibility, like a married bachelor. It’s not a matter of logic, it’s a matter of definitions.

God did invent logic. He is the creator of all things, including abstract concepts like logic, morality, mathematics, what have you.

I don’t see that your ranting about sin and salvation has anything to do with square circles or logic but you seem to have a beef about something. What’s your real question?
 
CeaselessMedik said:
. Can God create a square circle?
A. No, it is logically a contradiction of concepts. God did not invent logic; even he has to follow it. A Trinity both Three in One is possible, though, as is being a man and God.
Code: 
  B. Yes, he can do anything. He could have made logic work such that we could be both free willed AND completely good, but instead made us flawed, holds us accountable for the sins we inevitably commit, and "sacrificed" himself to "save" us from ourselves, even though it was he who demanded that as the price of "salvation."
Is there a flaw here?
Click to expand...
Logic is a method of human reasoning. God is not bound by it. “My ways are not your ways.”

peace
 
CeaselessMedik said:
. Can God create a square circle?
A. No, it is logically a contradiction of concepts. God did not invent logic; even he has to follow it. A Trinity both Three in One is possible, though, as is being a man and God.
Code: 
  B. Yes, he can do anything. He could have made logic work such that we could be both free willed AND completely good, but instead made us flawed, holds us accountable for the sins we inevitably commit, and "sacrificed" himself to "save" us from ourselves, even though it was he who demanded that as the price of "salvation."
Is there a flaw here?
Click to expand...
God did not create us flawed. Our parents, Adam and Eve, brought condemnation on mankind and original sin. God pursues us until we surrender and submit and allow Him to transform us into creatures fit for heaven.
 
C.S. Lewis said that utter nonsense is still utter nonsense, even when talked about God.
 
Victorious said:
I read it in C.S. Lewis; but that doesn’t mean Frank Sheed didn’t also say it. The truth belongs to everyone.
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whoever said it, I think the quote was along the lines of “nonsense is still nonsense, even when you put ‘Can God’ in front of it”
 
seagal said:
A square circle is a nonsensical impossibility, like a married bachelor. It’s not a matter of logic, it’s a matter of definitions…
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Well, I’m not talking about this example specifically. I’m asking whether two concepts that under logic are un-combinable are combinable by God.

And I’m sorry for beefing. I just feel like Christianity fundamentally has the wrong attitude - that we’re expected to strive for perfection but never are good enough and are force-feeded that thought.
 
CeaselessMedik said:
And I’m sorry for beefing. I just feel like Christianity fundamentally has the wrong attitude - that we’re expected to strive for perfection but never are good enough and are force-feeded that thought.
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Actually, it’s not Christianity that has the wrong attitude, but rather those who try to achieve perfection through their own efforts without the help of God’s grace. Jesus tells us more than once in the Gospels that what is impossible for men is possible for God; He also tells us that without Him, we can do nothing. Therefore, the message is that we must do our best and rely on God for the rest. He will not fail to give us help if we ask for it.
 
Victorious is right on the button. We are all called to be saints here on earth, but at the same time we know we are sinners and can’t possibly attain perfection this side of heaven. The point is that we try! God will take our best efforts and make them even better, for his glory.

Actually, the problem I have is the just opposite. When we’re told that we’re only human and we’re doing the best we can do and not to worry about it. I hear this even from priests, who probably think they’re easing the guilt we may be feeling that we’re not good enough and will never be good enough. While I agree that feeling hopeless in our efforts is not effective (and is possibly destructive in that it could lead us to give up altogether) to me this sends the message that we don’t have to try too hard, we can always tell ourselves “well that’s the best I can do” and think that’s enough.
 
A square circle is just nonsense. It’s equivalent to saying “Can a figure with four sides and angles of 90 degrees NOT be a figure with four sides and angles of 90 degrees?” No, of course not. It doesn’t matter what system of logic you set up, because the only one that is pertinent is THIS one, in which the question is set up and understood.

The answer is no, God cannot do something which by definition is impossible. He also cannot give us free will and then force us to not sin against him.
 
But the definition is part of THIS logic in THIS world. If God created logic, he could remake it so thAt he could make beings like him.
 
I don’t understand the point of the question. Just say for the sake of argument that God could make a square circle, or a circular square, or a rock he couldn’t lift. So what? Does it help you in any way? Does it make him somehow more God? Does it make him somehow less God if he can’t?
…he could make beings like him
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God did make beings like him.
And he said: Let us make man to our image and likeness: and let him have dominion over the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the air, and the beasts, and the whole earth, and every creeping creature that moveth upon the earth.

And God created man to his own image: to the image of God he created him: male and female he created them.

Genesis 1:26-27
 
It makes him arrogant and only “greater” than us because he made it so.
 
You’ll hve to explain that one. Isn’t the creator greater than the creature?
 
Unless it’s a creature with the ability to make peers and not subjects
 
I’m assuming you meant to say “creator” instead of “creature”, otherwise your post makes no sense.

So you’re saying God should have just made a whole bunch of gods instead of us poor humans? That’s not logically possible. God is the creator. Anything he creates is a creature and therefore not God.
 
CeaselessMedik said:
. Can God create a square circle?
A. No, it is logically a contradiction of concepts. God did not invent logic; even he has to follow it. A Trinity both Three in One is possible, though, as is being a man and God.
Code: 
  B. Yes, he can do anything. He could have made logic work such that we could be both free willed AND completely good, but instead made us flawed, holds us accountable for the sins we inevitably commit, and "sacrificed" himself to "save" us from ourselves, even though it was he who demanded that as the price of "salvation."
Is there a flaw here?
Click to expand...
Well, if He made a square circle could you understand it?
 
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