Well then are you also troubled by tradition thru councils , for they also have been used by heretics.
It appears you are entering dangerous waters here, which I would prefer to debate only Orthodox Church members, who are better qualified in understanding our Greek and Latin Fathers interpretation of Holy Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. In short it takes one who lives and practices the Apostolic Sacred Tradition’s in order to debate them through councils. So I will not move to another subject.
Tell me, what did Christ use to defeat the greatest heresy maker ever, who also wrested scriptures wrongly, when tempting the Lord in the desert? Did Christ cite tradition, the high priest, the Pharisees as definers of Writ, the Talmud or Mishna ?
Interesting, re-read what Jesus reveals to his opponents of the Law. Jesus not only reflects the written law, but He floors them with the Oral Prophetic Sacred Tradition ( that exposes them to God’s presence, who is Himself), which Paul a Pharisee recognized as both Scripture and Oral Sacred Tradition as being fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
Mark 12:24 Jesus said to them, “Are you not misled because you do not know the scriptures or the power of God?
This is my whole premise. Scriptures alone does not suffice because they can mislead the many. What is missing in Sola Scriptura, is the Power of God, that is present in Apostolic Sacred Living Tradition with Sacred Scripture that is protected and possessed within the Body of Jesus Christ the Church of the living God, the Pillar and bulwark of Truth.
Tell me, what did Anthanasius cite more than anything else against Arianism ? Why has it been said it was he against the world? The popes could not stop them, nor councils, nor emperors. In fact the heretics had their own councils and bishops and emperors and for a time a weak pope in Rome. Ultimately Athanasius fought fire with fire, rightly dividing Writ against wrongly divided Writ.
I am sorry ben; but are you not arguing in my favor here; I will only make a few brief comments in response out of respect for your post.
- When the Arians came on the Church scene. This heresy was being fought and introduced by members of the Eastern Orthodox Church’s.
- Later, after the battle lines were drawn and the Church counseled. The Church council required the Popes ratification, which legitimatized the Church’s finding’s against the Arians. That said, your late new invented Orthodox argument has already been laid to rest, about a weak Pope.
- You are correct, the Arians were supported in the East by a Heretical Emperor. But there remained, Only One Apostolic Office that has never officially fallen into heresy, and that is the Chair of Peter presided by the Popes in all ages to today. When all the other apostolic Chairs have all fallen in and out of heresy. Only the bishop of Rome presides in Peter’s Chair that remains Rock unchanged as Jesus promised.
I really hope to keep the subject of SS going, without having to visit subjects unknown to SS.
I just do not see third century Christians saying they were equal in revelation authority as the apostles and their writings. I see them as esteeming their foundation, and seeking to be true additions, living stones, to the "building’’, true to the spirit of the apostolic and writ foundation.
For the sake of what has been discussed; The difference between the original Apostles and their Apostolic successors. The OA’s were given divine revelation and handed them down both orally and written.
The Successors to the Apostles especially the bishop’s of Rome, all first 34+ suffered Martyrdom for their Catholic faith, these Popes, would fall into your third century era also. These were the Possessor’s and Protectors of the Apostolic Faith under persecution and threat of death by secular laws. It was not popular to be a Catholic during these times.
The Apostles still remain today under their head Jesus Christ and His chosen Vicar over his flock to tend and feed presiding in the Chair of Peter, who are all bishops at the local level, and the bishop of Rome who is Peter at both the local and universal level of the Church.
The Apostolic office has not changed. The first are given and the successors are to hand down what was given to them by Jesus and His apostles.
We are not talking sentimental feelings, or high regard to a status when divine revelation was given, that is a given by the apostolic successors. We are discussing apostolic office does not change.
