SS practicing Christian: What do you say Scripture is?

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rcwitness said:
It’s as though the Catholic faith is more SS
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HI rc,

Actually I have posted that the CC is almost prima sciptura, because every doctrine is presented with explicit or implicit Writ .( You have been very fair to admit what P’s see in some doctrine (Marion etc) that is* more *from Tradition.).
Or that SS itself is an abuse of the Scriptures. NOT on account of the esteem and veneration assigned to Scripture, but the lack of submitting to the Person of Jesus whom Scripture testifies is with the Church as well as Scripture!
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SS an abuse of Writ, certainly from CC point of view, as the three infallible legs are an "abuse’’ of church/tradition/magisterium from SS point of view.

As to why , I agree not due to veneration and esteem for any one authority/legs etc…

Many have suggested a sin problem on somebodies part, and agree to your submission problem which is also sin.

So we have two or three traditions of what is normative, of what we are to submit to, and obviously each tells the other about their misplaced submission.

Agree with you that any misplaced submission is ultimately before the Lord.

Blessings
 
rcwitness said:
Do you recognize a Magisterium set over the house of God?

She has authority from God. It is not greater than Scriptures authority. It is eaqual. Yet Scripture is more than mere authority. It is Divine Revelation!

The Church does not only have Scripture, but the Sacrament of His Body and Blood. Scripture does not have this.
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You are so close to having Scripture in a class by itself.
I just want to point out some differences between the Magisterium and Scripture.

You said
“She (the Magisterium) has authority from God”
I agree:
I say Sculpture does not have authority FROM God:
Scriptures’ authority IS God’s authority.
God never granted Scripture authority .

God Himself is bound to what Scripture say
As the Book of Isaiah is a God breathed wrings; If the Book of Isaiah says something is true; then God cannot say it is not true.
Every line of Scripture is infallible and inerrant (Incapable of error. Contains no errors) .

And yet not every proclamation from the Magisterium is infallible.

It is possible God can disagree with a non-infallible proclamation from the Magisterium
 
alwayswill said:
???
You don’t believe God is bound by His word?

I would be shocked if Catholics did not believe that
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it’s a trick question. But I agree with you, in that God does not contradict Himself. We do say Jesus is not bound by the Sacraments. In this sense, we are saying that His mercy and judgment are in His hands. He judges justly. He is not bound by the Law, but He is the Law itself. We are bound by the Church’s Teaching. Scripture is set in a class unique in essence. It is Apostolic, God Breathed, Divine Revelation and Inerrant!

Scripture alone is like every US citizen claiming the Constitution their authority over the Supreme Court… 🤷
 
jmcrae said:
I think rather he is talking about what form Purgatory takes - whether it is a purifying fire, or something else. We simply do not know.

But since the subject of the Enchiridion is the “how to” process of getting souls out of Purgatory, it seems that he must have believed in Purgatory and also assumed that his readers did, also.
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What makes you say that is about how to get out of Purgatory? It tells what sin is and how we are under sin. It then goes on to show how God has provided a remedy for our sin and how we obtain it. It is a discourse on the Apostle’s Creed and the Lord’s Prayer. It is a manual that explains how we can go to Heaven. Rather than saying how to get out of Purgatory it tells us what is necessary for us not to go to Hell.
 
alwayswill said:
???
You don’t believe God is bound by His word?

I would be shocked if Catholics did not believe that
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It astounds me that anyone who believes in God would suggest he is bound to anything.

Perhaps you can reformulate by defining what you mean by “bound”.
God’s word truthfully expresses God’s revelation, that is true.

But God is bound by nothing whatsoever.
 
rcwitness said:
it’s a trick question. But I agree with you, in that God does not contradict Himself. We do say Jesus is not bound by the Sacraments. In this sense, we are saying that His mercy and judgment are in His hands. He judges justly. He is not bound by the Law, but He is the Law itself. We are bound by the Church’s Teaching. Scripture is set in a class unique in essence. It is Apostolic, God Breathed, Divine Revelation and Inerrant!

Scripture alone is like every 🤷
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It is not a trick question: it is directly related to this thread:

God is bound by His word:
Scripture is God’s word:
That’s not a trick

every US citizen should proclaim that the Constitution is their authority over the Supreme Court…
If the Supreme Court goes against the Constitution the Supreme Court is error
If the Supreme Court declares something is false that the Constitution says is true the Supreme Court is error.
If the Supreme Court takes away something the Constitution says it is my right have : the Supreme Court is error.
**
without any doubt : the Constitution is the authority over the Supreme Court… **
 
clem456 said:
It astounds me that anyone who believes in God would suggest he is bound to anything.

Perhaps you can reformulate by defining what you mean by “bound”.
God’s word truthfully expresses God’s revelation, that is true.

But God is bound by nothing whatsoever.
Click to expand...
God IS bound by His word
for ex:
If the Book of Isaiah says something is true; then God cannot say it is not true.

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

Psalm 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven…

Psalm 89:34
I will not break my covenant, Nor alter what my lips have uttered.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent:

Psalm 119:142
…Your law is truth.

Psalm 119:151
…All your commandments are truth.

Psalm 119:160
**All of your words are truth. Every one of your righteous ordinances endures forever.
**
Isaiah 55:9-11
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain comes down and the snow from the sky, and doesn’t return there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud, and gives seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

1 Peter 1:23
…having been born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which lives and remains forever
 
We agree Scripture is highest authority! 👍

Is the Magisterium’s authority more or less than the individual member of the Church’s own interpretation?

Does the Church have authority over “me”?

Is Jesus divisible from the Church Magisterium?
 
alwayswill said:
It is not a trick question: it is directly related to this thread:

God is bound by His word:
Scripture is God’s word:
That’s not a trick

every US citizen should proclaim that the Constitution is their authority over the Supreme Court…
If the Supreme Court goes against the Constitution the Supreme Court is error
If the Supreme Court declares something is false that the Constitution says is true the Supreme Court is error.
If the Supreme Court takes away something the Constitution says it is my right have : the Supreme Court is error.
**
without any doubt : the Constitution is the authority over the Supreme Court… **
Click to expand...
So why have a Supreme court at all? 🤷

You are suggesting a State can reject the SCOTUS???
 
In normal usage when you say someone is bound by something else, that person is a subject of that thing.
God is subject to no one and no thing. Because he is God. 🤷

God does not reveal himself through Scripture alone. His revelation is not bound to Scripture.
In fact the fullness of revelation is Jesus Christ personally.
The Scriptures accomplish everything God wishes to say through them, but the fullest and final word of God is Jesus Christ.
The word bound, as commonly used, is wildly innappropriate for the reality at hand.
alwayswill said:
God IS bound by His word
for ex:
If the Book of Isaiah says something is true; then God cannot say it is not true.

Psalm 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

John 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is flawless; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

Psalm 119:89 For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven…

Psalm 89:34
I will not break my covenant, Nor alter what my lips have uttered.

Numbers 23:19
God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent:

Psalm 119:142
…Your law is truth.

Psalm 119:151
…All your commandments are truth.

Psalm 119:160
**All of your words are truth. Every one of your righteous ordinances endures forever.
**
Isaiah 55:9-11
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain comes down and the snow from the sky, and doesn’t return there, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud, and gives seed to the sower and bread to the eater; so shall my word be that goes forth out of my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

1 Peter 1:23
…having been born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, through the word of God, which lives and remains forever
Click to expand...
 
alwayswill said:
It is not a trick question: it is directly related to this thread:

God is bound by His word:
Scripture is God’s word:
That’s not a trick

every US citizen should proclaim that the Constitution is their authority over the Supreme Court…
If the Supreme Court goes against the Constitution the Supreme Court is error
If the Supreme Court declares something is false that the Constitution says is true the Supreme Court is error.
If the Supreme Court takes away something the Constitution says it is my right have : the Supreme Court is error.
**
without any doubt : the Constitution is the authority over the Supreme Court… **
Click to expand...
The Supreme Court interprets the constitution as it wishes. 🤷
You might think it is in error. Good luck with that.
 
clem456 said:
It astounds me that anyone who believes in God would suggest he is bound to anything.

Perhaps you can reformulate by defining what you mean by “bound”.
God’s word truthfully expresses God’s revelation, that is true.

But God is bound by nothing whatsoever.
Click to expand...
Hi clem , I am laughing a bit for indeed God can not do everything. It is all about perspective. Of course God is omnipotent and omniscient and omnipresent, a mind blowing perspective paradigm. But from another perspective, paradigm, He is limited, by His very nature. For instance He can not lie, He can not sin, He can not go against His Word . He is thankfully bound to His very nature.

Blessings
 
St. Peter

Be subject for the Lord’s sake to every human institution,*whether it be to the emperor as supreme,*or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to praise those who do right.
 
clem456 said:
In normal usage when you say someone is bound by something else, that person is a subject of that thing.
God is subject to no one and no thing. Because he is God. 🤷

God does not reveal himself through Scripture alone. His revelation is not bound to Scripture.
In fact the fullness of revelation is Jesus Christ personally.
The Scriptures accomplish everything God wishes to say through them, but the fullest and final word of God is Jesus Christ.
The word bound, as commonly used, is wildly innappropriate for the reality at hand.
Click to expand...
regarding the use of the word “bound”:
It is commonly used in the context I used it:
google.com/#q=is+God+bound+by+his+word

God has reveled Himself to me:
God is not bound my revelation of Him

I stand by this:
God is bound to His word and by His word.

Note: I have had previous discussions along the same line with other Catholic about whether God can do anything:
I stated God cannot lie: and I was told by Catholics that I am limiting God:

I’ll state again:
God cannot lie
God cannot break His promises
God cannot go against His word
 
alwayswill said:
regarding the use of the word “bound”:
It is commonly used in the context I used it:
google.com/#q=is+God+bound+by+his+word

God has reveled Himself to me:
God is not bound my revelation of Him

I stand by this:
God is bound to His word and by His word.

Note: I have had previous discussions along the same line with other Catholic about whether God can do anything:
I stated God cannot lie: and I was told by Catholics that I am limiting God:

I’ll state again:
God cannot lie
God cannot break His promises
God cannot go against His word
Click to expand...
Deception is not in God’s nature. The question is a non-starter.
God has the ability to do anything we wills.
He does not lie because his nature is what it is, not because he is limited.

So, in good faith discussion, we will assume that when you say “bound”, you are not implying that God is limited to whatever it says in the Bible and our understanding of it.

If you are saying God is bound to the bible as in being subject to it, then you are claiming God is not omnipotent, and that would be a somewhat unique idea in Christianity.
 
clem456 said:
Deception is not in God’s nature. The question is a non-starter.
God has the ability to do anything we wills.
He does not lie because his nature is what it is, not because he is limited.

So, in good faith discussion, we will assume that when you say “bound”, you are not implying that God is limited to whatever it says in the Bible and our understanding of it.

If you are saying God is bound to the bible as in being subject to it, then you are claiming God is not omnipotent, and that would be a somewhat unique idea in Christianity.
Click to expand...
Correct:
I am saying that if the Letter to the Galatians (being Scripture) proclaims something as being true: it is impossible for God to proclaim that as false
BECAUSE Galatians is a writing breathed out by God
Agreed?
 
alwayswill said:
Correct:
I am saying that if the Letter to the Galatians (being Scripture) proclaims something as being true: it is impossible for God to proclaim that as false
BECAUSE Galatians is a writing breathed out by God
Agreed?
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And if I say, “God is telling us, in Galatians, that Peter was Teaching error. This proves Papal Infallibility wrong!”

And the Church says, “No, Peter was not Teaching error.”

Do I have the authority to preach what I interpreted?
 
rcwitness said:
And if I say, “God is telling us, in Galatians, that Peter was Teaching error. This proves Papal Infallibility wrong!”

And the Church says, “No, Peter was not Teaching error.”

Do I have the authority to preach what I interpreted?
Click to expand...
It is possible for God to disagree with your interpretation of Galatians
It impossible for God to disagree with Galatians
 
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